Idea..
 

Yah yah i had no idea.. :ok: the idea is all yours.

Stage 2 31/1
 

Anyone doing stage II on 31/1, I suggest we meet up and practice together.

Kindly send me a private message if you are doing Stage II on that day.

See you, thx

cx and non hkid
 

What about those ab inition non-hkid who were already in the interview process prior to the immigration ruling?

greatbattle howtosayit
 

If someone is more qualified than a local, why shouldn't he get in? Please don't say that it's a huge conspiracy and expats were being chosen over local people, the expats that got into the Ab-initio program got in because they were better that the other candidates, if an expat is more qualified than a local then the expat should get the job no?
No it didn't sabotage their dream, why is it a problem if half the cadets are expats? If they are more qualified than the local candidates then what is the problem? It wasn't sabotage rather an increase in competition, if you're good enough then you should be able to get in, the cadet program is not an easy pass to becoming a pilot and the job should go to the best candidate.

English is the language of aviation, it is also the main language spoken at cathay if you don't speak it very well then you're going to struggle, even ICAO level 4 is a bit on the iffy side when working for an airline like Cathay. Again it's about qualifications if an expat speaks better English than a local then what is the problem.

Cathay becoming an only local airline? Highly doubtful, firstly its run by swire which is an English company and secondly there simply aren't enough candidates to do it, qualified pilots or qualified cadets.

I was born and raised in Hong Kong, you guys just need to stop viewing it as 'our' cadet program and start realizing that there are other people out there who want it just as much as you or even more and that if you are not as qualified as an expat you should not get the job.

Juliette Alpha
 

CX is a local airline. Although owned by Swire, it is registered and headquartered in Hong Kong as it has since it’s founding. It’s target market are people from Hong Kong, it’s hub is in HKG, even Air China has a nice stake in the airline, a stake which I would have no doubt would grow in the future. So with all this, if it’s not a “local airline” then where is it’s home???

Every country, including where I live, the US, has some sort of policy limiting foreigners from taking jobs that can be filled by locals. To be a pilot for a US carrier, one would have to be a US Citizen or registered alien. In Europe it seems even stricter but same protection for its residents. Asia is no different, just look at Air Asia or SIA’s cadet programs, they all require you to be a permanent resident of their country. CX seems to have allowed anyone through the door at one point which I am surprised as I can see CX getting burned down the line for allowing such policies.

Speaking good English, although important, I doubt is a barrier for many especially from the former English colony. Truth of the matter is, there are enough kids from a city of 7 million from HK who is able to pass and fill CX’s requirements for the cadet program, I wouldn’t even be surprised if I were to find out there are a few hundred CPL holder with HK ID in HK who could qualify for the AE.

I secretly hope the programme will go back to HKID only.... perhaps due to selfishness and the hopes that I may one day be able to convince CX for another attempt. Singapore, Malaysia and many others are strictly local and HK should be no different. I also believe that most, not all, non HKID cadets will jump ship when the opportunity arises.

HKID CPL holder and still job hunting :{

Knowing CX doesn't want you is tough.. but having to leave HK :ugh::ugh::ugh:

CP54 has a non HKID holder in the course. They are probably one of the last non HKID holders to get on to the ab initio course.

The Hong Kong Immigration Department also ruled that the intent of the cadet program was to enable LOCAL PEOPLE (Chinese) to enter aviation as a career, not as a gateway for cheap labour.

I agree 100% that the cadet program should only be for permanent HKID holders. All other programs should be aimed at experienced pilots, not this laughable excuse of an induction program that neither selects not trains the candidates based on experience and suitability, just a willingness to accept lousy T&C.

SIA locals only?
 

SIA has been taking Malaysians and Indians in their Cadet programme for a long time now. You know why? Because they sometimes find it hard to source enough locally suitable applicants.

Why would Cathay take a Westerner over a local if they had enough locals getting through all the testing?

An Airline down the road from EK took some Westerners on as Ab initio cadets not long ago because they too could not get enough locals through.

Don't worry the HYAA will come up with a few candidates.

AE should be for HKID holders only.And I am glad it's being adjusted that way.

As for SQ do some research on how un-happy locals about their recruitment policies.[start form the 'self-sponsored' CPL/ATPL thread]

JA, if it looks like a Duck it's not necessary a DUCK i.e selling the stake to the Chinese changed the whole ball game...

Outsiders
 

Well, well shout out to em outsiders better step up our game, locals are getting pretty uptight communism at play.

unhappy locals
 

Wongsuzie,

The local singaporeans might be unhappy about the recruitment arrangements but SIA has a standard to keep. I'm pretty sure the Malaysians get paid the same as the locals (Meaning I don't think there is a financial incentive to hiring non Singaporeans). Correct me if I'm wrong please.

As for Cathay I would say that if the airline stop paying for flight training the pool of locals would dry up overnight. There is no way the airline could sustain it's current operations on a local only hiring policy let alone cope with any growth.

Locals and expats are on a truly level playing field now. We get paid exactly the same as you do. Why spend 12 months training someone when you can do it in 6 months or six weeks? Doesn't make financial sense.

pilotchute
 

Couldn't agree more. however, we can never erase the fact that some feel, (A) certain amount of ownership in an airline embedded in their own country, which I feel sad about because most of us pilots that aspire to fly certain brands that we grew up with, only to be shun due to citizenship rights. I admire CX for what they did, Opening up their doors to all nationalities and I hope in the end it will all be about a certain candidates skill and qualifications that would matter not their ID card passport and whatsoever.

" CX is an equal opportunity employer " and this is the tag line that keeps my hopes alive..

And what would those be for the fresh out of school cadets CX hire? Not something that is lacking in HKG from locals so why open it to foreigners?

I can say with 100% certainty that where you are from an unskilled kid could not get a visa to work as a pilot.

ixg

"Cathay is an equal opportunity employer" is being misunderstood.

It applies to gender, age and disabilities, not nationality or lack of qualifications. It's accurate only within the HKG context and (I believe) not meant as an across-the-board, sweeping statement to the effect that they will hire anyone. The are many other factors at play.

Humm
 

That skill would be a cpl/ir and would still sacrfice that to get in ab-initio. With no complains whatsoever. Just love for the brand.

So I've been selected to do the initial interview in Hong Kong in the new year, Yay! but the problem is I am back in Canada now. If I send them an email, stating that I can't make it but would still like to be considered for interviews they hold in Canadian cities, will they just pass me over? seems likely seeing how competitive this thing is.

If you think it requires skill to get a CPL/IR it just shows how lacking in experience you are. I expect next you will tell me the expertise you are bringing to this airline is 250hrs.

Cherrs mate. No pun intended. Peace.

Hi chocolove. The solution is simple. Call.

Originally designed for locals and should remain that way.
Many HKID card holders would probably like to work in Australia or Europe but cannot due to immigration or other issues.

This is a benefit that only an HKID holder should get just like most locals would not be able to apply for the BA course because they cannot live in Europe or Jetstar because of strict Australian visa requirements.

Lets get the story straight.

Cathay now only hire HKID card holders for the ab initio programme. This I totally agree with. The reason that non locals were being considered was because at one point they were struggling to get enough locals through the recruitment process. The HK dept of immigration has stopped this so it's now a non issue.

As for the AE and TT programmes lets talk about what you need. Sloppyjoe says 250 hours isn't a skill. No its not but read on.

AE 250 hours with 100 hours PIC minimum. The people I interviewed with bar one had at least 1000 hours more than this minimum.

TT An ATPL with 500 hours on multi engine a/c greater than 2000kg.

Now I don't know how the AE and TT programs are stealing jobs from locals as I doubt there are no more than a couple of HKers around the world holding these quals. I know a couple and they didn't make it through the interview process. That's not CX's fault.

As for foreigners working in OZ Schweizer let me think,

REX sponsors type rated Saab 340 Captains from overseas.
Skywest was sponsoring ATR 72 Capt's and FO for introduction of type.
Jetgo is currently sponsoring type rated ERJ 145 Capt's and FO's.

Now Australia has a huge GA sector with plenty of out of work pilots yet some companies get away with hiring expats. If Australia has to get outsiders in from time to time I don't see how CX can function without getting expats in to crew their aircraft.

As I pointed out at the start, Ab initio is no longer open to non HKID card holders so please stop talking about it and saying that expats are taking all your jobs. It's getting a little tiring now. I suspect some people making these statements are Hong Kongers who have failed to secure a place on the programme and now place the blame on expats.

I have failed but I do not blame the expats. They were invited to join on their own merit. I simply believe a course that was designed for locals should remain that way and expat pilots should join for their experience as direct entries.

How many locals have the experience to join there? Unlike Australia there is no GA where a local can get his HK licence and go fly bug smashers to build the hours and join skywest etc....

You missed the point again
 

Scheiwer,

I will repeat again, The Ab initio programme is exclusively for locals now at CX. It was for a very long time and only took a handful of expats anyway during a very small window of time.

CX used to take DEFO's and the min was a couple of thousand hours jet. They now only ask for an ATPL licence with 500 hours multi and it's called TT.

They also used to take DESO's and the min was 1000 hours fixed wing with your ATPL theory completed. They now call this AE with the min reduced to 250 hours.

So it's back to the way it used it to. The only difference is that DEFO and DESO have morphed into AE and TT.

How is this stealing jobs from locals?

''but SIA has a standard to keep''

You mean the guy from 'North' of Singapore who took off from TPE and ran into a excavator [s]? what 'standard' is that?

That fateful morning everyone else stopped flying except the Tropical livery.

Singaporeans males serve 1 month or more Armed forces reservists training EVERY YEAR for many years.

Other nationalities don't, if you are a 4th floor Bean counter looking at the bottom line, would you pay an employee 1 month salary for doing nothing?

Pilotchute.

Before telling people how it is you should make sure you are correct.

There is nothing similar to DEFO anymore. TT as you call it is the most similar to what DESO used to be. The minimums were 1000hrs but I have not come across anyone without a minimum of about 2000 hrs of which a substantial portion was multi crew. Most DESO entrants had 3000+ hrs with command multi crew time, not unusual for that to be in an airline ops jet.

AE as you call it is a new thing to get enough people willing to accept the poor contract as TT alone does not attract enough guys. They are doing this alongside ab-initio as it is quicker to get cheap bums in seats rather than waiting over a year for locals.

This is removing opportunities for locals as prior to the reduction of the contract it was either DESO or ab-initio. DESO they paid a premium to get guys/girls with experience that really could not be found in HKG. The AE program takes guys/girls with no real experience, positions that used to be for locals joining via the cadet scheme.

So the head of bean counting at SIA is going to stop all local recruitment of Cadets in favour of Malaysians and Indians so they can save a months salary?

Now I'm no expert but in most Reserve forces around the globe you will get paid for your Reserve service. This is regardless of if it's for a day or a month. I'm sure SIA doesn't have to pay it's pilots whilst they are on Military service. Why would they get paid by the Govt and SIA at the same time?

So what percentage of of the SIA pilot body is now made up of Cadets from India or Singapore? Any hard numbers?

Sorry but I just don't buy it!

"I m no expert"

Exactly so..

You hv a lot to say about Cx and SQ.
Singapore nearly shut down their airline bcos of non Singaporeans.That resulted in a concerted effort to go more local.

You were CX AE and now on holding?

''So the head of bean counting at SIA is going to stop all local recruitment of Cadets in favour of Malaysians and Indians so they can save a months salary?''
You obviously don't know the industry.

SQ has a 'standard' You imply locals are not suitable? Indians and Malaysians are ?

Singapore has highest GPD [higher than Swiss and Sweden]
Highest literacy
Highest ratio of Billion/Millionaires
Best health rate [debatable]
Highest education standard [Countries copy their curriculum]
Costliest property prices -higher than Monaco
Most expensive cars
Best food
Most expensive politicians

Its not because their locals are not capable but rather they are not attracted to the industry -too highly qualified.

Oh btw their are several Doctors who are flying for SQ and Lawyers too.
So there goes that theory..

You maybe right with alot of things you say there about Singapore (not about GDP PP though - Singapore is about 5th) but saying Singapore has the best food is just plain wrong! ;)

Sloppyjoe,

I never said AE and TT are similar to the old DEFO and DESO. I stated that they changed the mins and called them something different. My point was a TT only gets weeks six weeks training before type rating making it the closest thing to DEFO that CX now has. AE is now the closest thing they have to DEFO. I don't think I said at any point they were similar. Please read my post properly.

Judging from your post I think you want HKID card holders to be the only people getting recruited by CX? Is the case you put up as DEFO and DESO will never come back. Don't think that will work.

If AE and TT is a ploy to get cheap expat bums on seats (which I don't deny) then why don't you vent to Cathay management? No point sitting on Pprune and telling expats to stay away 'cause with the economic situation in most of the world people that normally wouldn't consider the C scale wages now find CX the only option for a job. Not just now but for a long time in the future. Airlines are still shutting down in Europe.

Without trawling through my previous posts I don't beleive I said that Indians or Malaysians were more qualified than locals but that the locals applying weren't getting through. As wongsuzie states the locals are not interested in flying for SIA it appears.

I can only base the content of my posts from speaking to former expat SIA and Cathay pilots.

Maybe English is not your first language so you don't understand that by comparing the two like that you are implying that TT is the new DEFO.

I have never advised expats not to join. Please read my post more carefully.

Yes it would, they had people with thousands of hours queuing up for a jobs. DESO 3000+ hours with multi crew time, command time, jet/turboprop time. DEFO 6000+ hours with airline command time, widebody FO time, military jet time etc.

Along with the above there were a descent number of local cadets also getting in through ab-initio.

Again you should not lecture people on things you do not fully comprehend. Maybe your second hand info is out of date or you misunderstood.

''The local singaporeans might be unhappy about the recruitment arrangements but SIA has a standard to keep'' [viz Indian and Malaysian cadets]

Don't play games, boy

''I can only base the content of my posts from speaking to former expat SIA and Cathay pilots''.

Ok I understand where the problem is...

Wongsuzie,

When I said they had a standard to keep I meant of the people SIA were sending off to do ab initio flight training. If the locals coming to interview at SIA headquarters isn't deemed suitable for ab initio training then they will look elsewhere. That was the intent of the comment. I by no means wanted to imply that any nationality is better at flying an airplane than any other.

Yes I am in the hold file and that is fine. Not everything happens in the time frame you expect it to.

Holidays!
 

Happy holidays everyone! To all aspiring candidates and current cx crew!

wow wow wow

why is there a debate about Singapore here?


for reservist, the govt pays the company for taking away their male employee for a period of 1wk-6wks every yr for a decade.

the downpoint isn't abt the money, it's abt the absence of the worker and who is to take over his duties while he's serving his reservist.

not just reservist, every combat fit male will have to pass a yearly physical test, failure of which will result in them attending 20 physical training sessions in the evenings, spanning 3months.

Here are the CX cadet stats for 2012

14,538 cadet applicants
2,254 interviews conducted
244 Second Officers recruited

only 15% applicants got interview?

Amazing isn't it? How many interviewers do you think there are? They couldn't handle any more. Also, you would think that the 15% would comprise the most suitable applicants. What happened there???