very highly competitive

thats massive. Local + overseas? In old days there are roughly 2000 - 3000 local applicants, which means more than quarters from overseas.

I think of the 2000 odd interviews conducted the figure would be stage 1 and 2 combined. As more than half flunk stage 1 I would say that only a few hundred of the interviews were stage 2.

If they interview 10 to 12 applicants a week for stage 2 any they interviewed 10 months of the year that would be around 400 to 500 stage 2's a year. Out of that maybe half get in so there is your 244 recruited.

Another thing to remember is the average time to stage 1 interview from application submission was 12 months for my group. Some a little more and some a little less. This would indicate most of the people who applied in 2012 didn't actually get an interview in 2012.

Did anyone is going to have stage 1b in hong kong on 10/1?

Thought there was HKD33,000 for the Second Officer few years ago. new salary scale imply?

That $45000 includes the $10k housing allowance. Its closer to $50,000 now.

When you're in Adelaide you don't get paid a salary, you get about $100 AUD each week as an allowance.

It's only when you return to HK will you start getting that salary.

The cadet program has a 'forgiveable loan' for around $1.1 Million HKD, of which the 55 week cadets will use it all up to cover training costs.

For AE candidates they will actually be able to get part of that $1.1 million as a lump sump payment once they finish training (pro rata'd) because they only spend 32 weeks in Adelaide, so naturally they will not use up the whole $1.1 million that Cathay 'loans' to the candidate, and as such will receive the balance.

I've just joined CX as an SO myself, I signed a six year contract to 'pay back' the HK$1,100,000, the starting salary is HK$36,200, + pilot allowance HK$10,000, + hourly duty pay (assuming 84 hours) HK$3,500. Total HK$49,700.

I thought I'd research the cost of living in HK sufficiently to know what I was getting into before I even went to my first interview roughly two years ago. Things have changed since then, in particular the cost of renting a place of a similar size to Oz is unaffordable these days on the starting salary. Also for anyone who'd had savings and was planning to buy now cannot as you need 15% stamp duty on top of a minimum 10% deposit. I'm hoping over time the pilot allowance will be increased but in reality I suspect that the housing allowance of the senior pilots will be reduced over time in line with the HK pilot allowance.

I've come to the conclusion that this is a good way to get into aviation, but Cathay is likely just a 6 year stepping stone for many. The Swire guys will have done the maths and figured out that after two years of a cadet replacing an FO, we will have become cheap labor. If we leave after two years but before six, it's an additional bonus as they're lawyers will come calling for the training costs.

So far the job is good, the guys you fly with are good, after a short time though HK looses its charm.

Agree with 'gimpfeatures' on basically everything he has said there. I have been at Cathay for almost 2 years now and there is no real desire for 99% of the cadets to stay at Cathay for the long term. Even putting cost of renting a place aside the general cost of day to day living in Hong Kong is fairly high.

For now I'm fairly happy just to have a job, and the staff travel is a pretty nice bonus compared to alot of other carriers. But for me the reason I will end up leaving Cathay is even though once you upgrade to FO the salary is actually quite good, I'm not going to spend the next 30 - 40 years of my career potentially being payed a hell of alot less than a guy who joined 2 years before me. But hopefully CX will at somepoint in the coming years realise this and bring the benefits packages alot closer together....

Also just to add us cadets who joined 2 years ago never had to sign anything saying we'll pay back the 1.1 million if we leave so clearly the conditions are getting worse and not better..

That's what you signed up for wasn't it???:ugh:

No, he signed up for 6 presumably.

DDobinpilot,
two years in could you give us an idea of what the job is like, are you still enjoying it, how often do you go into sim to practice the hand flying, any news on when they may upgrade you?

rgds
Jimbols6

Finally we are getting some opinions from real and current C scale SO's rather than speculative posts from potential applicants telling everyone that eating noodles and living in a shoebox won't be a problem...

KIDS...LISTEN TO THESE GUYS such as DDobinpilot or GimpFeatures...only they got the full story...

Anyone have any info/tips on the physics part of the compass test?
Got mine coming up on the 17th.
Thanks!

Pilot 852

Despite all of the warnings, they still keep coming:ugh::ugh:

Guys you will never stop them coming... its human nature. Just see CX as Pied Piper of Hamelin.

There enough information out there about the T & C, the workings of CX etc... Just let them be... a person learn by making mistakes...when they do, you have the privilege to say "i told you so:p". You cant keep holding there hands for ever, its dog eat dog world, besides in a few month they be flying a Big shiny jet.:sad:

I think you mean, 'flying IN a big shiny jet'. They will only be making radio calls, filling in the CFP, carrying the blue bag and possibly manipulating the autopilot of 'the big shiny jet', IF the Commander or Relief lets them, while working off their bond...erm 'forgivable loan'.

And the jets don't stay shiny very long in the filthy South China air.

Must be doing something right,our friends down south asking Capt to take unpaid leave:


From ****e Times:SIA asks pilots to volunteer for unpaid leave

so how good was the previous package? i.e. A-scale

A lot of talk on how craap it is now, but nothing to compare with!

pilot 852

From previous posts, i thought the mathematics part of the COMPASS test has been changed to arithmetic questions, not sure if the physics part is needed.

There are usually only 3 groups of people who would take the scheme. The cadets, the hopefuls and the informed. Sad to say not everyone is experienced or are able to make a critical judgement if comparisons are made to yesteryear. Time and again its been proven its worse in the outside. Plus for those trying to get into CX is almost like a brick wall for some. Despite unhappy people, very few leave. SIA has asked everyone to take unpaid leave from FOs to Capts. Cadet hiring has stopped. They have been using cadets for the longest time and many families in CX has traveled with them some time or other. Mind you, there is no apprentice phase like the CX SO programme. The SIA SOs are probationary first officers. No JFOs there. But there are less critical comment on those guys who are also predominately Asian. Just in a different playground.
When guys come in and say they wanna leave after 6 years. It's good news no? For the ones that DO stay.. Upgrades speed up. Perhaps packages improve (when people actually leave vs saying it)
Older chaps on A scale who won't take RA65 will all be looking at what's gonna happen to the first round of 55 year old guys. Most hope to see how the company will manage an there is always a wait and see behaviour.
For the cadets. Where are they gonna get free training these days? Look around and surplus guys floating around. Pay to fly jobs etc
Hopefuls on basings a well as getting the HKPA raised don't see thereality that you can't get into this marriage hoping your 'spouse' is gonna change just because you hoped so. Join with both eyes open and that doesn't come naturally. Similar to common sense.
I think what would be beneficial to most thinking of joining is for those who have articulately described how bad it is to be in CX to put forth a better argument of WHERE is the best place to apply to today.
Even the guys who were pro Middle Eastern airlines have been rather quiet of late. Cos all u have to do is read their forum and you know what is going on in Emirates and Qatar.
To be fair, my conditions on joining we're informed and I have done my fair share of military flying and instructing. Granted the system is not perfect. Granted that SOs aren't 'pilots' but apprentices. Even if it's just radio calls,carrying the blue bag etc. it's also another body to let the senior guys get rested, to earn the trust cos none of us were born pilots. It is an incremental approach, to be shown the ropes. For SOs to emulate the professionalism and observe standards that is renowned around the world.
Arguably, the pool of 'experienced pilots have shrunk around the world. Similarly Air travel is affordable by all which no longer makes it 'premium' as such.
Premium wages are long gone and where the line is drawn, you can't blame the system if you are in the wrong side of the line.
For most parts. I think most guys would be happy to see the ones that whine and whinge actually leave after 6 years or at 55.
Most people tend to néed 6 Cs
Cash, Condos, Cars, Credit ratings, College degrees and Comfort but increasingly the new generation has added 2 more Cs. Compare and complain.
It's a WIFM mentality out there. I have had my training experiences with these 'entitled' lot and have trained with some over the past year. What's In It For Me. (WIFM). Sign of the times.

Sorry DB, it's 41 :)

The age thing?
 

Dan Buster,

I can sense reading between the lines that your having a swipe at DB. Is there a problem with his age?

I noticed on one of your posts that you were sick of training pimply faced cadets. Wouldn't you rather have someone on the flight deck with you that can talk about something other than how great HALO 3 is to play?

Email received from HR
 

Hi guys, I have been looking through all these pages for the past few months. Anyway I applied in early July and got a reply yesterday. HR emailed thanking me for applying etc but stated in the email that I have not been selected for an interview etc. Am I the only who one has not managed to get an interview before rejction? :(

Sorry to hear anima, but you are definitely not the first to not get an interview. There would be more people who don't get an interview than those who do. There are just too many applications for them to give everyone an interview. If you look back a few pages, there are figures for the amount of people that applied in 2012. Not sure how accurate it is, but it wouldn't be hard to accept those figures.


Keep your head up, do some extraresearch and study and reapply :ok:

There will be very few interviews this year so it's probably normal that most will get rejection letters, even though you probably meet the requirements.

A 41 year old aspiring to be a CX "cadet" SO is the same as a 41 year old aspiring to return to kindergarten so as to get on Sesame Street just for the desire to get on TV.

Hi guys, I applied in early June and I got the call last wednesday. Will attend the written test on Feb 21. Anyone going on the same day?:)

China,

You have no idea what the motivation or reasons behind Boxers choice to be a SO with CX are and frankly I don't think that you have any business remarking on it.

I personally would rather spend 8-12 hours on the flight deck with someone who could hold a conversion about interesting topics and remember what life was like before everyone had an iphone glued to side of their head.

Not aspiring. Nor am I a cadet SO but from the transition course. Not that it makes any diff to those who don't want the job anyways. Plus,I actually liked sesame street. I have done my time in the military. So there aren't aspirations or shiny jet 'syndrome' after actually knowing what Mach tuck is first hand. Surprised you are still here CB :) still contract flying in China?

Hey everyone! Been reading these forums for a week or so now trying to gather all the details and such. I had applied for the CX SO job a couple months back but completely forgot about it till I got a call and email from them last week telling me that I had been invited for the first interview and they sent me a booklet to study. My interview is next month.

Any useful for helpful tips are welcome! I don't have any prior flying experience or knowledge. I am only 23 years old but would love to fly and have already been saving up to get a PPL.

Also please don't start about how this offer sucks etc etc and that what they are offering is not enough to survive in HK because it sure damn well is and I have been living here for 13 years now to know that much. For $8000 you can get a 3 bedroom 700sqft apartment with security and in a proper building.

It looks like at least ainma got a reply. I've submitted my application in 2009, has submitted an update of my resume sometime in 2011, and not even a rejection email. Do you guys know why or what should I do?

Give them a call, email them or even see if you can do another application. Main thing is to 'remind' them that you are still there and still interested in getting an interview.

Sometimes they don't update your file even if you send them an update, it might just be a note next to your file.

Also, what place did you put as your preferred interview location, that might have something to do with it.

I have as much right to comment on a public forum offering an opposing or different point of view as those supporting or defending C-Scale.

I find it hard to believe that a then 39 or 40, now 41 year old with the military/flying experience Boxer seems to have shoves him into a polarised position where CX C-Scale is the best option. If that is your true experience then it's a true sad state of affairs that you did not explore the many, many, many other better options that would put you into the RHS of a jet far closer to the UK offering a better salary, better experience, better career progression and hours that actually count toward your (global) future.

How's the contract gig going - GREAT? Still flying a beautiful aircraft all around the globe, getting a tax free salary well and truly in line with the task I perform, great time off and great capacity to retire financially secure. (Keep guessing where though..... The username refers to the CX situation. Nice try but no cigar, not close).

Boxer, those before the iCadetship and C-Scale could also boast of first hand experience of Vmca, Vmcg, torque roll, aft vs forward CoG performance, deep stall, night affect, scalloping, stick fixed or stick free longitudinal stability....even Mach Tuck, and so on, and so on, and so on.... That was no claim to fame back then and shouldn't now. Sad that you're now by far and wide the great exception in your experience and knowledge as opposed to your fellow C-Scalers. During your 3 months in Adelaide (as opposed to the former 4 weeks for DESO's) the lessons on the 1:60 rule must of been enthralling! I can imagine the iCadets ooo'ing and ahhh'ing as they sit around your feet with their warm milk at bed time as you read aloud the pages of your log book.

This thread still has the same theme: those who know about CX and the international airline scene argue against it, those who haven't a clue or seek C-Scale as a good thing & argue to defend their ignorance, those so immature and ignorant ask the same questions (When will CX reply to my application? Does anyone have any tips for my study? What was A or B Scale? How much does it cost to rent in HK? What's an aeroplane? I'm just so passionate but forgot I even applied!!...) But now there's a new stream coming through of those who are living the C-Scale iCadet issue and speaking out after experiencing the truths that have been forewarned by so many for so long.

But then the old theme comes back - shut up if you don't blindly & ignorantly agree with C-Scale and speak out against the lowering of of the profession by way of standards, training and remuneration.

Transition courses are back to 4 weeks. No need to take HK ATPL and back to cadets. iCadets are pretty much closed if u have zero hours due to immigration issues. Hiring pretty much a standstill for 2013 for advanced and transition guys as training slots in 777 and Airbus is set aside for 744 guys coming across.

Guys who are up for interviews soon just drop me a PM and I will send stuff out to you. Just paying it forward from previous guys that helped out as well. Back to making this thread actually useful :)

Updating the application
 

Thanks orange. What is the number to call to ask for an update?

Its on the application page, next to the contact email.

Not exactly true is it China? When you posted something on the main fragrant harbour page plenty of pilots wrote about their understanding of the cadet program as a good opportunity for young people who have an interest in aviation to follow their dreams, to be honest it's only Cpt Underpants and Dan Buster that post in here, not really a broad opinion is it? Boxerpilot has made his choice and seems to be enjoying it, PPRuNe has a reputation of being a place to vent your frustration about Cathay which is why most of the pilots here (cadets included) are not very pro-cathay. Talk to some cadets and pilots in real life and you'll find out that yes, there are some that are not happy with the company because they have done something to them in the past but the vast majority of them are quite happy with the company and their jobs. Sure there are people on here that really do not deserve to even apply because they are so uninterested/lazy but there are also those who deserve to get into a program that is one of the best in the world for realising a dream and getting a pilots job, there are so many pilots that even after their training do not have jobs and when your training is paid for and you get a guaranteed job at the end, who is going to say no?

There are 248 pages of this thread and there are far more people criticising the iCadetship and C-Scale scheme than the 2 (or 3 if you count me). So if you and Gen Y bothered to read the 248 pages (very few pictures, I know) then you'll find far more than 3. Again, it'll take reading, comprehension and perhaps even an open mind to accept another's point of view that is based on experience, knowledge, and credentials.

The entire CX cadetship was set up to promote aviation and a career opportunity in HK for the local HK nationals and residents. Not my words but from the father of the present day scam himself. Go back and read his updates and reports but for perhaps 2 years ago. Since then it has been unashamedly raped into the present day status - but for the Immigration Dept of HK stepping in. Now the new low is accepted by the new low.

My points about the pros and cons of a (for example) 19 year old joining the iCadetship as opposed to going his/her own path and building his/her own loggable hours and therefore in charge of his/her own destiny has been mentioned many times. In fact I received a PM (the last of 3 such people) who thanked me for the time to correspond via PM's with him, which along with others cemented his decision to turn down the CX scam and as a result he is building hours in the RHS of a FAR 25 turboprop. He'll be in the LHS quicker than a kid with a CPL only to his/her name but for sandwich hours in a CX aircraft, and then a better salary, better career and better long term prospect. Not just my words but actual proof.

Others have also taken the time to PM to disagree with my point of view and swap decent conversions. I've been proven wrong on a few occasions regarding the some facts as I saw them at the time and each time accepted the correction. (I think that was somewhere back around page 170 ish of this thread.... But of course, you took the time to read all of them before lampooning an argument as if you had?)

Each person has their own decision to make - I never denied that. What I find laughable is the quick fire response against anyone disagreeing with the C-Scale, mostly from those who are seeking it and little from those doing it. (Once more, read the entire 248 pages, not just the last few.....) Also comical is those who ask for information yet act like a brat who's xBox has failed when the answer is not what he/she wishes to hear.

I can see how the iCadetship can appeal to a wannabe. I do not agree with it for the long term affect it has on one's own career, the pressures it puts on their colleagues' contracts at CX, for the lowest of low standards CX has succumb to due those with experience largely turning down and running away from the insulting offer, and of course the contribution to the lowering of the profession overall. But again, others defend this C-Scale as a good thing and an "opportunity" while those responsible for it are laughing all the way to the bank with their bonuses at your expense.

No, the majority ARE NOT happy with their jobs at CX. Go take some time away from the comic books and read (careful! Not all those who post are iCadets and have taken off the rose coloured glasses!!):
http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...christmas.html
http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...ded-hkaoa.html
http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...es-needed.html
http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...stead-aoa.html

There's 6 pages to this one so don't over do it:
http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...ransition.html

Without discussion of the iCadetship (much) you still believe that there only 2 or 3 people not happy at CX? Go and have a beer with any group of CX pilots who've been at the airline for longer than 6 years.

There's also a book that went on the best sellers list by a fella called John Warham that also outlines the warm and fuzzy feeling all get who work for CX.... Again, lots of pages, lots of words but a few pictures also! But again, he has "experience, "credentials", and "knowledge" so you are warned - he will have an opinion perhaps not in line with the average head-in-the-sand Cathay-is-so-gosh-darn-it-super-cool C-Scale defender.

So JA, "it's not exactly true, is it?"

PS: Can anyone tell what to study for an interview? I applied to CX last week and they haven't even offered me a Command on a Space Shuttle yet!!

PPS: How many Space Shuttles does CX have, how many engines does it have and what sort are they?