For International Cadets.
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As usual Titon 404 has produced the goods with his figures. Something else to throw into the mix for those prospective cadets doing their sums; consider that at the 6-7 year mark you have been a JFO for 1-2 years, have a free endorsement and are quite marketable. Have a look at some of the current Middle Eastern airlines FO requirements and you would find that you would be well qualified. Most of these airlines also pay a housing allowance and a salary relatively close to that offered at CX. If you go to these operators then you may find that the lost housing allowance as a CX cadet SO, as compared to a DESO, may be cancelled out by working for another company that offers a housing allowance for DEFOs. My advice is not to get too rapped up in this CX career thing: it is a dying beast. After a few years as an FO at CX you will have a marketable skill, go and find the highest bidders.
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Loiter,
again, another positive of the scheme. You can always leave! (after 2 years JFO). Although if you read the Middle-East forum, it isn't really a great place to be.
again, another positive of the scheme. You can always leave! (after 2 years JFO). Although if you read the Middle-East forum, it isn't really a great place to be.
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Not quite right about the housing. A 3rd year SO will get anywhere from HK$50-67,000 housing a month depending on when they last had a review or joined the scheme and on what terms. It fluctuates but is around there at the moment for those about to start a 3rd year as an SO. This is paid directly into a mortgage loan or paid as rent to a landlord. This is why people are saying a 3rd year SO gets as much as a Cadet captain as add that to a 3rd year SO pay and it is about HK$100,000 a month. Not quite true as a cadet captain gets a managers bonus and a lot bigger salary and more for hourly pay and overtime etc. I would guess that a local captain is a few thousand ahead each month.
Those who are saying, wouldn't it upset you that after working for CX for 15 years and getting to the left seat that a 3rd year SO makes as much, are being a bit short sighted. I expect this could be the end of the housing allowance as they are getting enough keen hopefuls to keep a steady stream of cheaper pilots joining the company. Why pay housing when they dont have to.
Those who are saying, wouldn't it upset you that after working for CX for 15 years and getting to the left seat that a 3rd year SO makes as much, are being a bit short sighted. I expect this could be the end of the housing allowance as they are getting enough keen hopefuls to keep a steady stream of cheaper pilots joining the company. Why pay housing when they dont have to.
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I had a mate once who we called Sloppy Seconds. Its not you is it! Joking.
I digress.
They do need to pay housing allowance and the contingency for this will always have been in the game plan when the CPP was opened to the internationals. 6th Year cadets (2nd year JFOs) will leave in their masses - regardless if DESOs are no longer being recruited and thus removing the arument of 'unfairness'.
The housing allowance for cadets will never reach the heights you are talking about (obviously) or the scheme would not actually be a long-term cost saver for the company. But an allowance will have been worked into the plan and talks will progress to find out exactly how much CX are prepared to give. It wont be much of course but will be more than enough to keep all sides happy. Especially as the cadets knew full well that they were to expect nothing.
I digress.
They do need to pay housing allowance and the contingency for this will always have been in the game plan when the CPP was opened to the internationals. 6th Year cadets (2nd year JFOs) will leave in their masses - regardless if DESOs are no longer being recruited and thus removing the arument of 'unfairness'.
The housing allowance for cadets will never reach the heights you are talking about (obviously) or the scheme would not actually be a long-term cost saver for the company. But an allowance will have been worked into the plan and talks will progress to find out exactly how much CX are prepared to give. It wont be much of course but will be more than enough to keep all sides happy. Especially as the cadets knew full well that they were to expect nothing.
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Guys,
Are there discussions about housing allowances being given to cadets...??? Is it probable in the near future...??? If yes, What is the approximate maximum amount that a cadet can expect as housing allowance...???
SL
The housing allowance for cadets will never reach the heights you are talking about
SL
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Discussions yes.
No comment/no idea (depending on who you talk to) for your other questions.
I want to stress though that this is a rumour network. So whilst there are talks going on which is no big secret, anything brought to pprune is just something someone heard someone say the other day over a round of golf. Take the advice that Titan 404 and others have brought to the forum and base your decision on having NO housing allowance - that way you have prepared for the worst.
No comment/no idea (depending on who you talk to) for your other questions.
I want to stress though that this is a rumour network. So whilst there are talks going on which is no big secret, anything brought to pprune is just something someone heard someone say the other day over a round of golf. Take the advice that Titan 404 and others have brought to the forum and base your decision on having NO housing allowance - that way you have prepared for the worst.
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Whatever!
LOLL anyways I don't have $70k AUD to get a CPL, it would take me like 3-4 years to save up and I'd have to give up uni......and this cadet scheme is the fastest/cheapest way possible to become a pilot! There are so many aviation schools out there and uni courses to do......but I spose I just need to work harder and FIND A WAY!
I want this SO much and saving up for housing is easier in comparison to training/hours/licences!
anyways, I am overwhelmed at how money is so important, and this dream isn't going to be possible if I don't get into the cadet programme because I don't have enough. I could slowly get a private licence and fly for leisure -.- but it isn't the same. We should be happy that this opportunity is available to us, my dad keeps saying in his days, nooooo way would this be possible for a young person to be paid to be trained and become a pilot.
as you can see I'm pretty confused about what's going to happen and how I'm going to get there......*sigh*
I want this SO much and saving up for housing is easier in comparison to training/hours/licences!
anyways, I am overwhelmed at how money is so important, and this dream isn't going to be possible if I don't get into the cadet programme because I don't have enough. I could slowly get a private licence and fly for leisure -.- but it isn't the same. We should be happy that this opportunity is available to us, my dad keeps saying in his days, nooooo way would this be possible for a young person to be paid to be trained and become a pilot.
as you can see I'm pretty confused about what's going to happen and how I'm going to get there......*sigh*
itsroxc
I was actually in the very same position back in 1986. I couldn’t afford the AUD$30,000.00 that it cost then to get my CPL. I solved it by getting a full time job, going to Uni three nights a weak and learning to fly on Saturdays paid for with my own savings. It took me five years to get my degree and four years to get my CPL with no debt at the end.
Everything is possible in this world. Sometimes though you just need to think outside the box and not be in such a rush.
I was actually in the very same position back in 1986. I couldn’t afford the AUD$30,000.00 that it cost then to get my CPL. I solved it by getting a full time job, going to Uni three nights a weak and learning to fly on Saturdays paid for with my own savings. It took me five years to get my degree and four years to get my CPL with no debt at the end.
Everything is possible in this world. Sometimes though you just need to think outside the box and not be in such a rush.
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Hi all,
I'm giving serious consideration to the CX cadet scheme, so this thread is most useful. I'm also looking for some general advice about becoming a pilot.
First of all, a quick introduction: I'm British, 25 years old, unmarried (but with g/f who works(!)), have a maths degree and maths & physics A levels. I'm a westerner, so probably never going to speak Cantonese (or Mandarin). Last year I spent six months in Hong Kong, and I'm in Hong Kong right now (my g/f also lives here). So I understand the cost of living here, and have a good feel for the culture (both local and expat). I have no flying experience, but it has always interested me as a career.
My thoughts on Hong Kong Vs "The West" and on previous posts here, are as follows:
- Tax. Noone has mentioned tax?! You do know that it is capped at 16% in HK and in many cases you can pay A LOT less than that (generous reductions for kids and spouse). If I earned £100k/year (note 1GBP =~ 1.65USD) in the UK (like a doctor, say) I would pay 50% of it to the taxman and in other stealth taxes. How about Germany? Even worse! France? Worse. Italy? Worse. Scandanavia? Worse. There doesn't seem to be an easy way to reduce your tax burden as a pilot, because you're simply an employee (even a doctor could start his own practice and streamline tax that way). There is also ZERO investment tax in HK, unlike the capital gains tax you are subjected to in the UK (and most of Europe).
- Cost of Living. It strikes me that 2 things are expensive here: rent/property and alcohol (and ok, western food in restaurants, but that's damn expensive in the UK too). Again, rent in London is just as expensive as HK. But hey, I'm British; if I go work for BA or Virgin I'm not going to get a housing allowance right? They're not going to pay my mortgage on a nice London penthouse? So after my 50% tax, I shall also pay my own substantial rent or mortgage.
Aside from the two things mentioned, HK is way cheaper than UK/Europe. Hop in a taxi, £3 (vs £15 in UK). Boat to Macau £10 (costs more than that to go to Isle of Wight!), boat across the harbour (20 PENCE!) and local food is cheap. And no it's not disgusting. In Britain, an average (at best) meal may set you back £30-50 each. Also, on the subject of rent: you're not a banker, therefore you don't need to be living near Central (the business district in HK), and as you get out into the New Territories you get *much* more for your money.
- Training cost. First of all, can someone please give me a realistic figure for how much it costs to train yourself up to commercial level from scratch? The figures seem to vary a lot. I'll use 100k GBP for now, but that may be too much?
It seems noone has factored in servicing the interest on your loan, assuming Mummy & Daddy aren't stumping up £100k for your training. Also noone has mentioned how difficult it is to get a loan at the moment! Obviously, you can save too. But can you save up £100k as a 20-something year old? Well, I've had a good go at it, and have around £50k (minus 8k for student loan). I count myself as an outlier here, I really don't know many other 25 year olds (that went to university) that are +42k in the black without some sort of hefty inheritance. We'll ignore successful entrepreneurs and lottery winners, as they are unlikely to suddenly want to become pilots. I also completely disagree with the attitude that if you have some money (saved or not), then you should be willing to spend it all on "realising your dream", and without even a job-guarantee at the end. It's like saying to a sprinter - "he takes steroids, so you should too. Or obviously he wants it more than you". No, he's just stupider than you! Steroids damage your health and excessive debt destroys lives (or entire economies as it now seems). It's layman's logic in my opinion.
So as you can see I tend to lean to the positive on this cadetship. Yes, it makes sense for Cathay, but it also makes sense for the debt-averse individual, and also the inexperienced (you're building up your flying time whilst getting paid for it). What I would like to hear, is what you guys out there would do in my position? And also on any opinions on working for Cathay Vs other airlines? CX are obviously confident that you will enjoy working for them, if their goal is for every cadet to reach Captaincy with them. I'm also very interested in hearing from current cadets or current applicants.
It's time for big decisions - so any guidance is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
P.S. currently work in I.T. but crave something more hands on, and with more human interaction.
P.P.S. I know American tax laws re: expats are more complicated, but sorry guys - your tax rules there just plain suck
I'm giving serious consideration to the CX cadet scheme, so this thread is most useful. I'm also looking for some general advice about becoming a pilot.
First of all, a quick introduction: I'm British, 25 years old, unmarried (but with g/f who works(!)), have a maths degree and maths & physics A levels. I'm a westerner, so probably never going to speak Cantonese (or Mandarin). Last year I spent six months in Hong Kong, and I'm in Hong Kong right now (my g/f also lives here). So I understand the cost of living here, and have a good feel for the culture (both local and expat). I have no flying experience, but it has always interested me as a career.
My thoughts on Hong Kong Vs "The West" and on previous posts here, are as follows:
- Tax. Noone has mentioned tax?! You do know that it is capped at 16% in HK and in many cases you can pay A LOT less than that (generous reductions for kids and spouse). If I earned £100k/year (note 1GBP =~ 1.65USD) in the UK (like a doctor, say) I would pay 50% of it to the taxman and in other stealth taxes. How about Germany? Even worse! France? Worse. Italy? Worse. Scandanavia? Worse. There doesn't seem to be an easy way to reduce your tax burden as a pilot, because you're simply an employee (even a doctor could start his own practice and streamline tax that way). There is also ZERO investment tax in HK, unlike the capital gains tax you are subjected to in the UK (and most of Europe).
- Cost of Living. It strikes me that 2 things are expensive here: rent/property and alcohol (and ok, western food in restaurants, but that's damn expensive in the UK too). Again, rent in London is just as expensive as HK. But hey, I'm British; if I go work for BA or Virgin I'm not going to get a housing allowance right? They're not going to pay my mortgage on a nice London penthouse? So after my 50% tax, I shall also pay my own substantial rent or mortgage.
Aside from the two things mentioned, HK is way cheaper than UK/Europe. Hop in a taxi, £3 (vs £15 in UK). Boat to Macau £10 (costs more than that to go to Isle of Wight!), boat across the harbour (20 PENCE!) and local food is cheap. And no it's not disgusting. In Britain, an average (at best) meal may set you back £30-50 each. Also, on the subject of rent: you're not a banker, therefore you don't need to be living near Central (the business district in HK), and as you get out into the New Territories you get *much* more for your money.
- Training cost. First of all, can someone please give me a realistic figure for how much it costs to train yourself up to commercial level from scratch? The figures seem to vary a lot. I'll use 100k GBP for now, but that may be too much?
It seems noone has factored in servicing the interest on your loan, assuming Mummy & Daddy aren't stumping up £100k for your training. Also noone has mentioned how difficult it is to get a loan at the moment! Obviously, you can save too. But can you save up £100k as a 20-something year old? Well, I've had a good go at it, and have around £50k (minus 8k for student loan). I count myself as an outlier here, I really don't know many other 25 year olds (that went to university) that are +42k in the black without some sort of hefty inheritance. We'll ignore successful entrepreneurs and lottery winners, as they are unlikely to suddenly want to become pilots. I also completely disagree with the attitude that if you have some money (saved or not), then you should be willing to spend it all on "realising your dream", and without even a job-guarantee at the end. It's like saying to a sprinter - "he takes steroids, so you should too. Or obviously he wants it more than you". No, he's just stupider than you! Steroids damage your health and excessive debt destroys lives (or entire economies as it now seems). It's layman's logic in my opinion.
So as you can see I tend to lean to the positive on this cadetship. Yes, it makes sense for Cathay, but it also makes sense for the debt-averse individual, and also the inexperienced (you're building up your flying time whilst getting paid for it). What I would like to hear, is what you guys out there would do in my position? And also on any opinions on working for Cathay Vs other airlines? CX are obviously confident that you will enjoy working for them, if their goal is for every cadet to reach Captaincy with them. I'm also very interested in hearing from current cadets or current applicants.
It's time for big decisions - so any guidance is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
P.S. currently work in I.T. but crave something more hands on, and with more human interaction.
P.P.S. I know American tax laws re: expats are more complicated, but sorry guys - your tax rules there just plain suck
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I was actually in the very same position back in 1986. I couldn’t afford the AUD$30,000.00 that it cost then to get my CPL. I solved it by getting a full time job, going to Uni three nights a weak and learning to fly on Saturdays paid for with my own savings. It took me five years to get my degree and four years to get my CPL with no debt at the end.
Everything is possible in this world. Sometimes though you just need to think outside the box and not be in such a rush.
Everything is possible in this world. Sometimes though you just need to think outside the box and not be in such a rush.
hker
I think you should look back at my posts. I highlighted all the main costs of HK including tax. Tax is certainly one of the pro’s for coming here even if you are a US citizen with their world wide tax. Mind you they pay no US tax if they earn less than about US$80,000.00.
My budget for rent was based on the New Territories not HK Island which is easily double what I quoted. While you may pay similar rents in London, what you get per ft² is about half what you would get in London. So per ft² HK is close to double.
Alcohol is actually cheap if you buy it at the supermarket and drink it at home. If you are like me whole is only a social drinker it hardly figures into a monthly budget.
No one has said local HK food is disgusting. Most of us love it. The point is over a long period of time here I have never seen an expat that eats local food on a regular basis. If you have grown up in the West you will, I can guarantee you be drawn back to a Western diet no matter how hard you try just as Chinese in London or Sydney are drawn to a Chinese diet.
Of course BA or VA aren’t going to pay your rent or mortgage. You’re from the UK. It’s the same as me not expecting QF to pay my rent or mortgage in Australia. Again the point is that most expats move overseas to get ahead of where they would be if they had stayed home. You take that incentive away and most will leave. In other words you lumber on them easily the largest financial burden of living here, the financial incentive of uprooting your family and coming here evaporates.
I find it interesting you bring up bankers and housing. For the record most bankers in HK even now with the slump in the world economy would have a housing allowance twice that of the average CX pilot. Most expats will be drawn to live in areas that other expats live. They include HK Island, Discovery Bay, Tung Chung, South Lantau etc. It is no different to the Chinese who live in London or Sydney. There tends to be a large concentration of them in certain areas. The longer you live here the more likely you will eventually live in one of the expat enclaves.
FL999
I realise not everyone would be in the same position I was in. My reply was really directed at “itsroxc” who lives in Sydney but can be just as applicable to someone that lives in N America, UK or Europe. I lived in Sydney too when I was in his position.
Before someone says that the UK and Europe are prohibitively expensive to learn to fly, who says you have to learn there. The US$ is in the toilet at the moment, particularly against the Euro and Florida is only a 9-12 hour flight away. Save up and do your licence all at once there. Again one needs to think outside the box.
I think you should look back at my posts. I highlighted all the main costs of HK including tax. Tax is certainly one of the pro’s for coming here even if you are a US citizen with their world wide tax. Mind you they pay no US tax if they earn less than about US$80,000.00.
My budget for rent was based on the New Territories not HK Island which is easily double what I quoted. While you may pay similar rents in London, what you get per ft² is about half what you would get in London. So per ft² HK is close to double.
Alcohol is actually cheap if you buy it at the supermarket and drink it at home. If you are like me whole is only a social drinker it hardly figures into a monthly budget.
No one has said local HK food is disgusting. Most of us love it. The point is over a long period of time here I have never seen an expat that eats local food on a regular basis. If you have grown up in the West you will, I can guarantee you be drawn back to a Western diet no matter how hard you try just as Chinese in London or Sydney are drawn to a Chinese diet.
Of course BA or VA aren’t going to pay your rent or mortgage. You’re from the UK. It’s the same as me not expecting QF to pay my rent or mortgage in Australia. Again the point is that most expats move overseas to get ahead of where they would be if they had stayed home. You take that incentive away and most will leave. In other words you lumber on them easily the largest financial burden of living here, the financial incentive of uprooting your family and coming here evaporates.
I find it interesting you bring up bankers and housing. For the record most bankers in HK even now with the slump in the world economy would have a housing allowance twice that of the average CX pilot. Most expats will be drawn to live in areas that other expats live. They include HK Island, Discovery Bay, Tung Chung, South Lantau etc. It is no different to the Chinese who live in London or Sydney. There tends to be a large concentration of them in certain areas. The longer you live here the more likely you will eventually live in one of the expat enclaves.
FL999
I realise not everyone would be in the same position I was in. My reply was really directed at “itsroxc” who lives in Sydney but can be just as applicable to someone that lives in N America, UK or Europe. I lived in Sydney too when I was in his position.
Before someone says that the UK and Europe are prohibitively expensive to learn to fly, who says you have to learn there. The US$ is in the toilet at the moment, particularly against the Euro and Florida is only a 9-12 hour flight away. Save up and do your licence all at once there. Again one needs to think outside the box.
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Thanks for your reply 404. With regards to bankers, I was just thinking along the lines of higher numbers of those guys living in midlevels, where you really don't get much for your money.
I reread this whole thread this afternoon, and I think part of the problem is the world is changing and this industry is changing with it (as is every other industry). As a young Brit now, I'm really not thinking along the lines of "it's a pretty big inconvenience for me to leave Britain, there better be a nice sweetener in it for me", I'm actually thinking "what has Britain got to offer me now? apart from a legacy of debt which my generation and the generations coming up behind me will pay for (as if taxes weren't high enough already!)". I think if I were twenty years older, contemplating this in the late 1980s, I wouldn't have thought like that. I would have perhaps thought "why would I want to go to Asia? America or UK is the place to be". I know that I'm not the only young graduate from the UK to think along these lines, more and more are considering opportunities elsewhere. IMO, young people see themselves much more as "world citizens" than they did 20-30 years ago.
My thought process takes in factors such as rising oil prices, imminent inflation of USD (further spiking oil price), rising green taxes, western airlines that are borderline bankrupt, finite supply of oil, oil supply somewhat at the mercy of Russia & the middle east, etc. etc. And these are the risks that you have to weigh up with the £100k+ outlay of your own money with no job guarantee - in a world where over the next 50 years, flight volumes could easily start decreasing. On the other hand you have cadet scheme with "free" training and guaranteed job with a highly respected firm, which is more financially sound than most, in a region of the world that is more financially sound than most. Quite frankly, if I pay for my own training and take the 5 years+ to build up the flight hours - I have absolutely no way of telling that these generous housing allowance packages for expats will even still exist (not for new employees at least). A lot can change in five years; take a look at the last 18 months!
With regard to the wife and kids - I would have thought most candidates for a cadetship don't have either yet (or at least no kids yet). And yes, it's very important not to be short sighted - most people do want a family at some point, although I find it surprising that Cathay would ask a question on this in an interview - how would they deal with homosexual applicants for example? how would they deal with the guy that shows no interest in having kids? Would they take a dim view of that, in your opinion?). Presumably if the candidate has no kids on entry, but has kids later, they will have known nothing but Hong Kong, and will therefore not expect a large garden, or object to sharing rooms for a while, etc. etc.). Even the household dynamic has changed dramatically in the last 20 - 30 years; how many wives have a full time career now Vs 30 years ago?)
A rising supply of westerners, a better grasp of English amongst Asians, and and a less-rosy picture in the west only points to one thing for me, and that's a reduction in expat remuneration.
I reread this whole thread this afternoon, and I think part of the problem is the world is changing and this industry is changing with it (as is every other industry). As a young Brit now, I'm really not thinking along the lines of "it's a pretty big inconvenience for me to leave Britain, there better be a nice sweetener in it for me", I'm actually thinking "what has Britain got to offer me now? apart from a legacy of debt which my generation and the generations coming up behind me will pay for (as if taxes weren't high enough already!)". I think if I were twenty years older, contemplating this in the late 1980s, I wouldn't have thought like that. I would have perhaps thought "why would I want to go to Asia? America or UK is the place to be". I know that I'm not the only young graduate from the UK to think along these lines, more and more are considering opportunities elsewhere. IMO, young people see themselves much more as "world citizens" than they did 20-30 years ago.
My thought process takes in factors such as rising oil prices, imminent inflation of USD (further spiking oil price), rising green taxes, western airlines that are borderline bankrupt, finite supply of oil, oil supply somewhat at the mercy of Russia & the middle east, etc. etc. And these are the risks that you have to weigh up with the £100k+ outlay of your own money with no job guarantee - in a world where over the next 50 years, flight volumes could easily start decreasing. On the other hand you have cadet scheme with "free" training and guaranteed job with a highly respected firm, which is more financially sound than most, in a region of the world that is more financially sound than most. Quite frankly, if I pay for my own training and take the 5 years+ to build up the flight hours - I have absolutely no way of telling that these generous housing allowance packages for expats will even still exist (not for new employees at least). A lot can change in five years; take a look at the last 18 months!
With regard to the wife and kids - I would have thought most candidates for a cadetship don't have either yet (or at least no kids yet). And yes, it's very important not to be short sighted - most people do want a family at some point, although I find it surprising that Cathay would ask a question on this in an interview - how would they deal with homosexual applicants for example? how would they deal with the guy that shows no interest in having kids? Would they take a dim view of that, in your opinion?). Presumably if the candidate has no kids on entry, but has kids later, they will have known nothing but Hong Kong, and will therefore not expect a large garden, or object to sharing rooms for a while, etc. etc.). Even the household dynamic has changed dramatically in the last 20 - 30 years; how many wives have a full time career now Vs 30 years ago?)
A rising supply of westerners, a better grasp of English amongst Asians, and and a less-rosy picture in the west only points to one thing for me, and that's a reduction in expat remuneration.
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404, I find your CV impressive. A realtor in Hong Kong and a past Bairstow Eves Estate Agent with a knowledge of the 32 Boroughs of London and the average sqft of most houses there.
404, I have always shared your concerns about the fantasists (fanatics???), especially as the issue of a housing allowance (or lack of one) is a delicate subject, and the talks to get at least a semblance of one is something that is being worked on - so we certainly don't want clowns coming here saying they can live on fish and rice whilst living in a cockroach infested bed-sit on top of a massage parlour during their SO days!
However there is one thing that you have repeatedly failed to answer and that is do you seriously expect any cadet in this current climate (or any climate) to self finance their traning and hope that things go so well (including us opening up DESO again) that one day, they'll be able to apply at CX again and suceed? - when they have the opportunity via the CPP.
Your calculation of a AUD$760K difference in a lifetime salary between CPP vs DESO is correct. But you could make that AUD$7.6million and I think you will still find no one prepared to gamble.
Your abundance of advice, facts and figures (75% of which have been twisted to conveniently back up your point) have been noted and appreciated. But as these pages go into double figures, many will see your animosity towards the programme shine through which will actually have a negative effect to what you had hoped to bring here to the wannabe forum.
404, I have always shared your concerns about the fantasists (fanatics???), especially as the issue of a housing allowance (or lack of one) is a delicate subject, and the talks to get at least a semblance of one is something that is being worked on - so we certainly don't want clowns coming here saying they can live on fish and rice whilst living in a cockroach infested bed-sit on top of a massage parlour during their SO days!
However there is one thing that you have repeatedly failed to answer and that is do you seriously expect any cadet in this current climate (or any climate) to self finance their traning and hope that things go so well (including us opening up DESO again) that one day, they'll be able to apply at CX again and suceed? - when they have the opportunity via the CPP.
Your calculation of a AUD$760K difference in a lifetime salary between CPP vs DESO is correct. But you could make that AUD$7.6million and I think you will still find no one prepared to gamble.
Your abundance of advice, facts and figures (75% of which have been twisted to conveniently back up your point) have been noted and appreciated. But as these pages go into double figures, many will see your animosity towards the programme shine through which will actually have a negative effect to what you had hoped to bring here to the wannabe forum.
betpump5
No I don’t. I have certainly made a lot of people sit up though and think more deeply about it as at last count I had 83 pm’s from people asking me questions. (I’m sorry if I haven’t PM’ed everyone back. I will try and get to you in the next few days). There are many positive things for the International CPP as well. They are obvious though and don’t need explaining by me. All I have provided is raw information for hopefuls to use in a proper bucket list i.e. the pro’s & cons. I certainly haven’t twisted anything to back my point as I my personal position on the International CPP is actually a positive one.
I got my first job in aviation during one of Australia’s worst recessions since the Great Depression. It was certainly much worse than today’s one by a long shot with unemployment at 10.9% and interests rates at 17%. Economies though always recover. If one thinks like the herd and curls up in a ball when they are in a perfect position to take advantage of a downturn, they will never get a head. Whether that is by the International CPP or self funding their licence will be entirely up to them. All I have done is provide information to help them make that decision.
PS: I wish my knowledge of real estate was considerably better. My answer though was based on looking at real estate web sights in the UK and the London area.
No I don’t. I have certainly made a lot of people sit up though and think more deeply about it as at last count I had 83 pm’s from people asking me questions. (I’m sorry if I haven’t PM’ed everyone back. I will try and get to you in the next few days). There are many positive things for the International CPP as well. They are obvious though and don’t need explaining by me. All I have provided is raw information for hopefuls to use in a proper bucket list i.e. the pro’s & cons. I certainly haven’t twisted anything to back my point as I my personal position on the International CPP is actually a positive one.
I got my first job in aviation during one of Australia’s worst recessions since the Great Depression. It was certainly much worse than today’s one by a long shot with unemployment at 10.9% and interests rates at 17%. Economies though always recover. If one thinks like the herd and curls up in a ball when they are in a perfect position to take advantage of a downturn, they will never get a head. Whether that is by the International CPP or self funding their licence will be entirely up to them. All I have done is provide information to help them make that decision.
PS: I wish my knowledge of real estate was considerably better. My answer though was based on looking at real estate web sights in the UK and the London area.
hker
History and in particular recent history would indicate quite the opposite. Apart from the last 12 months expat remuneration in HK and the rest of Asia has been increasing. This economic cycle is no different to all the others of the past 150 years. Some will be deeper than others but they are all the same with a recovery at the end.
Just as there was a huge world wide shortage of experienced pilots before this downturn, their will be an even bigger shortage after it is over. The number of pilots being trained worldwide has been decreasing over the last twenty years while the demand has gone through the roof. This downturn has only made it worse. The International CPP is CX’s insurance if you like for when, and it is only a matter of when the upturn happens.
Lastly when I here people say:
I think of one of JFK’s famous quotes:
After all it is because of your country that you are probably in the position you are in to think about becoming an expat. You have a lot to thank your country for even with its mountain of debt which you have probably contributed to anyway.
A rising supply of westerners, a better grasp of English amongst Asians, and and a less-rosy picture in the west only points to one thing for me, and that's a reduction in expat remuneration.
Just as there was a huge world wide shortage of experienced pilots before this downturn, their will be an even bigger shortage after it is over. The number of pilots being trained worldwide has been decreasing over the last twenty years while the demand has gone through the roof. This downturn has only made it worse. The International CPP is CX’s insurance if you like for when, and it is only a matter of when the upturn happens.
Lastly when I here people say:
I'm actually thinking "what has Britain got to offer me now?
And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.
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And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.
You're quite right, I have loads to thanks Britain for. My standard of education was excellent (and free), and I've also received top notch healthcare for free. I certainly don't think Brits are going to revert to living in caves and throwing rocks at each other, whilst China booms its way to gold-paved streets (after all, the Asian economies are largely dependent on western consumerism). But I do think the legendary investor Jim Rogers puts it nicely:
If you were smart in 1800 you moved to London. If you were smart in 1900 you moved to New York. If you're smart in 2009, you move to Asia.
Anyway, I degress. Thanks for all the advice 404; it has certainly given me another viewpoint and will help me discuss the issue more convincingly should I be lucky enough to get to the interview(s) stage. I'm certainly not one to the rock the boat if I was working for CX - believe me, if a 60k housing allowance was offered to me, I'd take it in a heartbeat! And I'm glad to hear that discussions regarding the issue of expat cadets and the 6th year "potential exodus" are in progress, or at least pending.
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thankss 404 titan
I was actually in the very same position back in 1986. I couldn’t afford the AUD$30,000.00 that it cost then to get my CPL. I solved it by getting a full time job, going to Uni three nights a weak and learning to fly on Saturdays paid for with my own savings. It took me five years to get my degree and four years to get my CPL with no debt at the end.
Everything is possible in this world. Sometimes though you just need to think outside the box and not be in such a rush.
Everything is possible in this world. Sometimes though you just need to think outside the box and not be in such a rush.
If CX doesn't accept me-which is highly likely due to the competition BUT I'm still trying my best. If they don't accept me though I'm seriously going to need answers and advice on what they want or think I should improve on.
I think I'll continue uni full time- I don't have that many hours anyways, keep working as much as I can and get some steady hours every week. And if that doesn't work out I'll graduate by the time I'm 24, and work/get a license on the side.
my initial interview is tmr :S quite scared but it will be ok, cadet or not I'm going to be a pilot!
now....back to studyinggg or trying to! haha