Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme
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stage2
CX- Hopeful the stage 2 maths test is not a multiple choice or numerical reasoning its basic addition, subtraction, division, multiplication ( part 1) and part 2 is all aviation related questions on stall speeds, climb gradient, etc
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CX soliciting current staff for unpaid leave
For all you hopefuls:
You may be interested to hear that CX has just made it known that it is "accepting applications" for unpaid leave (leave of absence) from all ranks, all fleets, for periods of up to a year.
I think this will definitely impact on the cadet pilot program, making the numbers of recruits a lot smaller and likely putting the whole program on hold. For how long? No idea, but the two year forecast isn't all that rosy.
You may be interested to hear that CX has just made it known that it is "accepting applications" for unpaid leave (leave of absence) from all ranks, all fleets, for periods of up to a year.
I think this will definitely impact on the cadet pilot program, making the numbers of recruits a lot smaller and likely putting the whole program on hold. For how long? No idea, but the two year forecast isn't all that rosy.
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Does anyone know how long CX gives you from the letter of offer to the Ab initio course start date??
This is because if I am that lucky to be successful in my 2nd interview, pass medical, pass ICAO and pass flight grading, I have to give 3 months warning for my current employment before they can release me.
Thanks.
This is because if I am that lucky to be successful in my 2nd interview, pass medical, pass ICAO and pass flight grading, I have to give 3 months warning for my current employment before they can release me.
Thanks.
Last edited by lucky86; 7th Jun 2012 at 03:43.
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lucky, that is something you should discuss with CX when you attend stage 2 
My instructor waited about a month from being offered a position to being on the course in Adelaide. That was for AE though.
My instructor waited about a month from being offered a position to being on the course in Adelaide. That was for AE though.
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Unpaid Leave
Cpt. Underpants:
What you are alluding to is really an upcoming layoff or furlough of pilots at CX. They are trying to look for volunteers for this “unpaid leave”, and if none or few sign up for it, they will do it the hard way (involuntary). Of course, generally when they look for volunteers such as this, very little if any will volunteer so they end up doing the hard way anyway.
I can say this, from my sources at CX (and these are REALLY high up individuals); CX’s long term goal is to phase out what some of you refer to as the “A scales” and gradually make all pilots receive the same benefits like the iCadets CX is currently recruiting (i.e. no housing allowance). It is really one of their strategies for reducing costs to compete in what has been a very competitive and difficult environment. Overall, these “iCadets” recruitment should continue, it is the highly paid expats that should worry.
By they way, I am not or not trying to become an iCadet, Just a person with insider information.
What you are alluding to is really an upcoming layoff or furlough of pilots at CX. They are trying to look for volunteers for this “unpaid leave”, and if none or few sign up for it, they will do it the hard way (involuntary). Of course, generally when they look for volunteers such as this, very little if any will volunteer so they end up doing the hard way anyway.
I can say this, from my sources at CX (and these are REALLY high up individuals); CX’s long term goal is to phase out what some of you refer to as the “A scales” and gradually make all pilots receive the same benefits like the iCadets CX is currently recruiting (i.e. no housing allowance). It is really one of their strategies for reducing costs to compete in what has been a very competitive and difficult environment. Overall, these “iCadets” recruitment should continue, it is the highly paid expats that should worry.
By they way, I am not or not trying to become an iCadet, Just a person with insider information.
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Well as someone with sources VERY high up in CX you should try to educate them.
It has been said that JFO upgrades will slow down by the end of the year. By the end of the year the last of the DESO joiners will have upgraded. These are the guys/girls who will not be looking to jump ship ASAP as get paid around about what a skilled expat in HKG should after a few years with a company. This will even further annoy the icadets, who are looking to jump ship as soon as they can as could have a better quality of life back home doing the same job.
As soon as almost every icadet has 3 years as an FO they will have applications in with other carriers at home. Those that don't care about living at home will have applications in with the likes of EK, tax free, housing, 6 years to command. Once these initial icadets leave it will drive up conditions for those on local terms as CX realize that their plan has not worked and the airline will be parking planes due to lack of crew and they need to do something to stem the flood of leavers.
Hong Kong is not a particularly nice place to bring up a family, small flat, bad air, rude people, expensive food for an expat, stupid lists for schools that cost a fortune to get into and are not that good, miles away from family etc etc. Almost everyone has the hope of having a family. On local terms in HKG for someone not from HKG it is not doable.
Yeah the expat package guys need to worry do they. I actually think it is CX who need to worry about the path they are taking. In as little as 3 years they will start to feel the mistakes they are making.
It has been said that JFO upgrades will slow down by the end of the year. By the end of the year the last of the DESO joiners will have upgraded. These are the guys/girls who will not be looking to jump ship ASAP as get paid around about what a skilled expat in HKG should after a few years with a company. This will even further annoy the icadets, who are looking to jump ship as soon as they can as could have a better quality of life back home doing the same job.
As soon as almost every icadet has 3 years as an FO they will have applications in with other carriers at home. Those that don't care about living at home will have applications in with the likes of EK, tax free, housing, 6 years to command. Once these initial icadets leave it will drive up conditions for those on local terms as CX realize that their plan has not worked and the airline will be parking planes due to lack of crew and they need to do something to stem the flood of leavers.
Hong Kong is not a particularly nice place to bring up a family, small flat, bad air, rude people, expensive food for an expat, stupid lists for schools that cost a fortune to get into and are not that good, miles away from family etc etc. Almost everyone has the hope of having a family. On local terms in HKG for someone not from HKG it is not doable.
Yeah the expat package guys need to worry do they. I actually think it is CX who need to worry about the path they are taking. In as little as 3 years they will start to feel the mistakes they are making.
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SloppyJoe,
Your assumption that an icadet will jump ship at any opportunity they get seems to be a valid one as long as they do not like their current environment or they can find a suitable position back home. This not only applies to icadets but to any of the direct entries you are mentioning who has the housing allowance. It has been found that an expat is likely to go back to their home country if they cannot get accustomed to the one they are in, even if very well paid. I would think Cathay has lost DEs with A scale benefits solely because the expat could not become accustomed to life in HKG.
What is really more apparent in this argument is that airlines have no problems finding qualified pilots/candidates period. CX like many other large carriers get some of the most qualified applications from around the world. I can say they will have no problems filling their cadet programs with competent pilots who they can mold for the eventual left seat with reduced pay or benefits. Recently I talked to another high up in a regional here in US. I was told they received thousands of applications for flying regional props . A wide variety of applicants from majors on furlough, pilots with well over 10K hours, military down to fresh graduates from flight schools. This is not uncommon as there are always an abundance of qualified (and competent) pilots who are unemployed. By the by, the prop job is a regional F/O making a whopping $21/hr. I can tell you this, CX will not have a mass exodus of pilots if they got rid of the housing allowance all together today. However, few things will happen, there will be pilots who find something elsewhere and leave CX but this number is not as many as you think due to the current employment trends and morale will hit an all time low. With these consideration, it is why CX will have to slowly take away things and not do it all at the same time. If you think the environment is so great for pilots right now, you don’t have to look so far to see how bad things are getting. SQ as you may know, had asked their pilots for volunteer leave as well just recently, there are multitudes of airlines who are not looking to hire anytime soon due to the uncertainties from the global economic turmoil and the volatile shifts in the price of jet fuel. In writing this, it has dawned on me there are some low cost carriers and other airlines of the likes of Lion Air, Air Asia et al who are actively or will be recruiting, but good luck to get them to pay you even a decent salary.
Your assumption that an icadet will jump ship at any opportunity they get seems to be a valid one as long as they do not like their current environment or they can find a suitable position back home. This not only applies to icadets but to any of the direct entries you are mentioning who has the housing allowance. It has been found that an expat is likely to go back to their home country if they cannot get accustomed to the one they are in, even if very well paid. I would think Cathay has lost DEs with A scale benefits solely because the expat could not become accustomed to life in HKG.
What is really more apparent in this argument is that airlines have no problems finding qualified pilots/candidates period. CX like many other large carriers get some of the most qualified applications from around the world. I can say they will have no problems filling their cadet programs with competent pilots who they can mold for the eventual left seat with reduced pay or benefits. Recently I talked to another high up in a regional here in US. I was told they received thousands of applications for flying regional props . A wide variety of applicants from majors on furlough, pilots with well over 10K hours, military down to fresh graduates from flight schools. This is not uncommon as there are always an abundance of qualified (and competent) pilots who are unemployed. By the by, the prop job is a regional F/O making a whopping $21/hr. I can tell you this, CX will not have a mass exodus of pilots if they got rid of the housing allowance all together today. However, few things will happen, there will be pilots who find something elsewhere and leave CX but this number is not as many as you think due to the current employment trends and morale will hit an all time low. With these consideration, it is why CX will have to slowly take away things and not do it all at the same time. If you think the environment is so great for pilots right now, you don’t have to look so far to see how bad things are getting. SQ as you may know, had asked their pilots for volunteer leave as well just recently, there are multitudes of airlines who are not looking to hire anytime soon due to the uncertainties from the global economic turmoil and the volatile shifts in the price of jet fuel. In writing this, it has dawned on me there are some low cost carriers and other airlines of the likes of Lion Air, Air Asia et al who are actively or will be recruiting, but good luck to get them to pay you even a decent salary.
Last edited by Mad-Dog; 7th Jun 2012 at 18:06.
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@Mad Dog
That "they" are desperate to rid themselves of ALL expat perks is no secret and no one needs to be an insider to know this.
Here's the problem: there are MANY of us who have made (by any measure) large sums of money over the past decades, either in astute investing (rare) or property (common).
If there was a massive degradation of CoS (Conditions of Service) MANY would simply leave. It wouldn't be worth it - the pollution, cramped living, expensive education, CoL, draconian work rules, the TSA (my personal favorite), poor rosters, unstable rosters et al.
The reason why CX hasn't simply scrubbed expat allowances is that they are painfully aware of the exodus it would precipitate, on all levels - line drivers, C&T staff, TCs, STCs, managers, everyone. It would, in a word, DECIMATE the airline.
A slow introduction of "local" T&Cs is what has begun, albeit unsuccessfully. Undersubscribed with the "wrong stuff", they have turned to recruiting from areas previously ignored by CX - only to come up dry - again! The response from India, Pakistan and Malaysia was underwhelming.
The few reasonably qualified individuals CX trolled into the icadet scheme are EXPECTED to leave when they can attract interest from other airlines - Emirates, E T I H A D and others, even LCCs. It's already begun amongst some local staff, leaving for HKA and Air Asia, to name two.
Attrition off the icadet scheme is expected to be in the region of 60-70% at the F/O 1000 hour mark.
You want inside information? You just got it.
That "they" are desperate to rid themselves of ALL expat perks is no secret and no one needs to be an insider to know this.
Here's the problem: there are MANY of us who have made (by any measure) large sums of money over the past decades, either in astute investing (rare) or property (common).
If there was a massive degradation of CoS (Conditions of Service) MANY would simply leave. It wouldn't be worth it - the pollution, cramped living, expensive education, CoL, draconian work rules, the TSA (my personal favorite), poor rosters, unstable rosters et al.
The reason why CX hasn't simply scrubbed expat allowances is that they are painfully aware of the exodus it would precipitate, on all levels - line drivers, C&T staff, TCs, STCs, managers, everyone. It would, in a word, DECIMATE the airline.
A slow introduction of "local" T&Cs is what has begun, albeit unsuccessfully. Undersubscribed with the "wrong stuff", they have turned to recruiting from areas previously ignored by CX - only to come up dry - again! The response from India, Pakistan and Malaysia was underwhelming.
The few reasonably qualified individuals CX trolled into the icadet scheme are EXPECTED to leave when they can attract interest from other airlines - Emirates, E T I H A D and others, even LCCs. It's already begun amongst some local staff, leaving for HKA and Air Asia, to name two.
Attrition off the icadet scheme is expected to be in the region of 60-70% at the F/O 1000 hour mark.
You want inside information? You just got it.
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Seniority,anyone leaving after 6 years for an airline with 6 years to command may as well stay at CX with 12 to command..personally i think few will leave...better the devil you know!!
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I really don't believe that it's possible that a new joiner now will be looking at a command in 12 years.
Our training system can't handle the three upgrades to get the zeros to heroes.
We won't have that many aircraft.
We're headed for the mother of all recessions. Depression, actually.
We will go for DEFO recruitment before too long.
Etc etc
14 - 16 years more likely
Our training system can't handle the three upgrades to get the zeros to heroes.
We won't have that many aircraft.
We're headed for the mother of all recessions. Depression, actually.
We will go for DEFO recruitment before too long.
Etc etc
14 - 16 years more likely
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Hi all
Can anyone give me an example of the below in us.
Thanks
Speed
Climb Gradient
Climb Gradient = Change in Height / Horizontal Distance Traveled
1 NM = 6076 feet
Stall Speed
Level Stall Speed
Vs = Sq. Root (2W / RSCL)
W= Weight
R = Density of Air
CL = Max Coefficient of lift
Banked Stall Speed
Load Factor = 1 / cos (angle of bank)
VsBanked = Sq Root (Load Factor) x VsLevel
VsBanked = VsLevel / Sq Root cos (angle of bank)
Can anyone give me an example of the below in us.
Thanks
Speed
Climb Gradient
Climb Gradient = Change in Height / Horizontal Distance Traveled
1 NM = 6076 feet
Stall Speed
Level Stall Speed
Vs = Sq. Root (2W / RSCL)
W= Weight
R = Density of Air
CL = Max Coefficient of lift
Banked Stall Speed
Load Factor = 1 / cos (angle of bank)
VsBanked = Sq Root (Load Factor) x VsLevel
VsBanked = VsLevel / Sq Root cos (angle of bank)
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I am a local HK applicant. I got my first stage finished yesterday (in hk) and they invited me for ICAO in early July today.
Firstly, I want to know if it means I have passed first stage, i.e.
a) only my ICAO result will affect my chance to proceed to stage 2; or
b) they will consider both my first stage and ICAO.
I also want to know if all HK stage 1 candidates are entitled to have ICAO test, or they have shortlisted some of them.
Finally, I was told that "The assessment takes about 30 minutes. The English instructor will conduct an English conversational test with you." Is it only part of the test? Because I saw from ur previous threads that it was more akin to a listening test. Did it only involve British accent in the previous listening tests?
Thanks heaps!!!
Firstly, I want to know if it means I have passed first stage, i.e.
a) only my ICAO result will affect my chance to proceed to stage 2; or
b) they will consider both my first stage and ICAO.
I also want to know if all HK stage 1 candidates are entitled to have ICAO test, or they have shortlisted some of them.
Finally, I was told that "The assessment takes about 30 minutes. The English instructor will conduct an English conversational test with you." Is it only part of the test? Because I saw from ur previous threads that it was more akin to a listening test. Did it only involve British accent in the previous listening tests?
Thanks heaps!!!
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Would appreciate some help
Hi guys
I've been trawling through this thread and would really appreciate it if someone in the know (perhaps a senior pilot) could condense some information to help both myself and (hopefully) other inexperienced Cathay 'wannabes'.
I'll be graduating from a top-10 UK university in July with (I hope!) a 2.1 in Biology. I've long wanted to become a commercial pilot but unfortunately there does not seem to be one complete, simple and financially sensible way of doing this as a school/uni leaver. Had there been then I would have chosen this option upon leaving school. Needless to say I chose and was advised to study a science degree at a decent university in order to place myself in the best situation at this point in time. As such I leave reasonably well-qualified (science As at A-level and a science degree) but with little flying experience (the RAF uni air squadron wouldn't have me on asthma grounds, although I had run the marathon in under 4-hours
I joined the army equivalent instead! Lots of exercise 
).
Neither I, nor my family can afford to pay flight training fees (PPL or more advanced) especially when there is no guarantee of subsequent employment. I've looked at programmes like CTC or the BA future pilot scheme yet they seem to require a guaranteed loan and I don't want my parents to mortgage their home! If a successful airline can see the potential in you as an employee, brand ambassador and pilot (i.e. you pass competitive selection), they should surely take the leap and pay for your training (as so many other firms would)...
So to get to the point: I found the Cathay cadet scheme and was pleased to see that they offer training to complete raw (in terms of flying) recruits from all over the world. I have completed and sent the application (lots of mumbo jumbo about my experiences, why I'd be a truly incredible pilot etc. etc.) and am awaiting some sort of response... Having waited a couple of weeks with no mention of even a date to expect an initial response, I emailed again and have heard nothing (starting to doubt my wish to work for this company...).
So I suppose I have 2 questions (each one containing more
):
a) What are my chances of passing selection (I should add here that although I studied Biology, I know a fair bit about aircraft, navigation and the industry in general, far more than the average person, I am also fit and can drive: coordinated)? Are they looking for people with multiple hours and licences? Will I be subjected to different requirements due to my British nationality? How interested are they really in your 'personality'?
b) When can I expect to hear something? Or can anyone email me a number I can ring to vent my frustration? Is UK selection constantly happening or is there a specific date I can be pointed towards?
Finally, I guess that I should put that although 'pilot' has always stood at the top of my careers list as an ambition of mine, I am also a realist and will not be a slave to any scheme, company, pay package or training school. Many posters seem to be extremely negative about the entire selection, training and career experience and I have to say I find this a bit worrying. I understand that no job is without its faults but query the strength of this negativity? Do schemes take advantage of 'keenos? How does one best set themselves up for a career in the airline industry without the RAF/complete self-funding?
I'd really appreciate some advice.
Phil
I've been trawling through this thread and would really appreciate it if someone in the know (perhaps a senior pilot) could condense some information to help both myself and (hopefully) other inexperienced Cathay 'wannabes'.
I'll be graduating from a top-10 UK university in July with (I hope!) a 2.1 in Biology. I've long wanted to become a commercial pilot but unfortunately there does not seem to be one complete, simple and financially sensible way of doing this as a school/uni leaver. Had there been then I would have chosen this option upon leaving school. Needless to say I chose and was advised to study a science degree at a decent university in order to place myself in the best situation at this point in time. As such I leave reasonably well-qualified (science As at A-level and a science degree) but with little flying experience (the RAF uni air squadron wouldn't have me on asthma grounds, although I had run the marathon in under 4-hours
I joined the army equivalent instead! Lots of exercise ). Neither I, nor my family can afford to pay flight training fees (PPL or more advanced) especially when there is no guarantee of subsequent employment. I've looked at programmes like CTC or the BA future pilot scheme yet they seem to require a guaranteed loan and I don't want my parents to mortgage their home! If a successful airline can see the potential in you as an employee, brand ambassador and pilot (i.e. you pass competitive selection), they should surely take the leap and pay for your training (as so many other firms would)...
So to get to the point: I found the Cathay cadet scheme and was pleased to see that they offer training to complete raw (in terms of flying) recruits from all over the world. I have completed and sent the application (lots of mumbo jumbo about my experiences, why I'd be a truly incredible pilot etc. etc.) and am awaiting some sort of response... Having waited a couple of weeks with no mention of even a date to expect an initial response, I emailed again and have heard nothing (starting to doubt my wish to work for this company...).
So I suppose I have 2 questions (each one containing more
): a) What are my chances of passing selection (I should add here that although I studied Biology, I know a fair bit about aircraft, navigation and the industry in general, far more than the average person, I am also fit and can drive: coordinated)? Are they looking for people with multiple hours and licences? Will I be subjected to different requirements due to my British nationality? How interested are they really in your 'personality'?
b) When can I expect to hear something? Or can anyone email me a number I can ring to vent my frustration? Is UK selection constantly happening or is there a specific date I can be pointed towards?
Finally, I guess that I should put that although 'pilot' has always stood at the top of my careers list as an ambition of mine, I am also a realist and will not be a slave to any scheme, company, pay package or training school. Many posters seem to be extremely negative about the entire selection, training and career experience and I have to say I find this a bit worrying. I understand that no job is without its faults but query the strength of this negativity? Do schemes take advantage of 'keenos? How does one best set themselves up for a career in the airline industry without the RAF/complete self-funding?
I'd really appreciate some advice.
Phil
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As far as I can tell you have no experience as a pilot and are a British citizen. Unfortunately unless you hold a permanent Hong Kong ID card you are not able to apply for the CX cadet scheme. They may never respond to your emails as you do not meet the requirements. If you had a CPL/IR you could then apply as a non HKID card holder as you have experience that can not be found locally.
Last edited by SloppyJoe; 13th Jun 2012 at 17:22.
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Cadet Pilot Program Advice
Hi all,
Definitely a newbie to the aviation industry and wanted some advice on applying for the Cathay's Cadet Pilot Program in HK.
A little background about myself: finished university overseas and graduated with honors in business, worked with a Fortune 500 company in Canada (didn't enjoy it) and came back to Hong Kong.
I was always interested in the aviation industry at a young age, but during that time, the best decision was to take a business degree. Nevertheless, after reviewing the criteria to join as a cadet with Cathay without flying experience, I'm definitely sparked to apply and wanted to seek guidance from fellow forum members on how to best position myself?
I have no flying experience nor a whole deal of knowledge, but I do have determination, motivation and the intellectual capacity to read up and get myself acquainted.
So, would it be possible to list some action items that I should read up on or do before I apply for the program? Any tips on how to best position myself? I'm definitely in the dark and would appreciate any guidance towards the right direction.
Definitely a newbie to the aviation industry and wanted some advice on applying for the Cathay's Cadet Pilot Program in HK.
A little background about myself: finished university overseas and graduated with honors in business, worked with a Fortune 500 company in Canada (didn't enjoy it) and came back to Hong Kong.
I was always interested in the aviation industry at a young age, but during that time, the best decision was to take a business degree. Nevertheless, after reviewing the criteria to join as a cadet with Cathay without flying experience, I'm definitely sparked to apply and wanted to seek guidance from fellow forum members on how to best position myself?
I have no flying experience nor a whole deal of knowledge, but I do have determination, motivation and the intellectual capacity to read up and get myself acquainted.
So, would it be possible to list some action items that I should read up on or do before I apply for the program? Any tips on how to best position myself? I'm definitely in the dark and would appreciate any guidance towards the right direction.