Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme
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stage 2/3
goaround737 and glassjacket
i am just arrived back home from stage 2/3 it was a good experience, mostly friendly staff exept one who was rude. Mine interview was general same as the ones previous posted except the order they were in. Technical question is hardest part for me, but i studied good to answer most question with confident. The HR side was easy just usual why do you want to fly for us crap etc etc. You can prepare for most of parts the interviews but not all of. I am not bother to write same things. Look back at tech/HR questions posted before it was similar to those.
CharlieVictorSierra
No it all makes sense to me and interest me to see what everyone in this has to say. I am learnt recently that its good to have other opinions rather than same agreement nobody is lean anything from that. Having that said, i am agree with the likes of CB and 404-titan. That is why this CP is means to end for me if am get offered. Voice you are "entitled" to your own opinion.. even if you are wrong pal!
CX-A330
i am just arrived back home from stage 2/3 it was a good experience, mostly friendly staff exept one who was rude. Mine interview was general same as the ones previous posted except the order they were in. Technical question is hardest part for me, but i studied good to answer most question with confident. The HR side was easy just usual why do you want to fly for us crap etc etc. You can prepare for most of parts the interviews but not all of. I am not bother to write same things. Look back at tech/HR questions posted before it was similar to those.
CharlieVictorSierra
No it all makes sense to me and interest me to see what everyone in this has to say. I am learnt recently that its good to have other opinions rather than same agreement nobody is lean anything from that. Having that said, i am agree with the likes of CB and 404-titan. That is why this CP is means to end for me if am get offered. Voice you are "entitled" to your own opinion.. even if you are wrong pal!
CX-A330
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stage 2
I have my stage 2 next week and I on my itinerary, there is no mention of sim check. Are Cx still doing a sim check for the advanced applicants (280 hrs) or has this been scrapped?
Regards
Regards
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Rightseat
All intermediate and advanced applicants do a sim check.
BTW with 280 hours, you're "intermediate", 30+ weeks course.
At the end of the day, you're still selling out, and the Cathay Pacific you aspire to will NOT be the one you may eventually join.
Grow a pair and walk away from this insult. You deserve better.
All intermediate and advanced applicants do a sim check.
BTW with 280 hours, you're "intermediate", 30+ weeks course.
At the end of the day, you're still selling out, and the Cathay Pacific you aspire to will NOT be the one you may eventually join.
Grow a pair and walk away from this insult. You deserve better.
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CharlieVictorSierra,
haha, no admittedly the apology was with a measure of sarcasm!
Nevertheless, i am thankful to the guys like Chinabeached who take the time to post and to fill us in on the pitfalls of the icadet course and what to expect in HK. At least there will be no surprises further down the line. Having weighed all of their feedback up, and with all the negative aspects to the contract/life in mind, I’m still not put off.
CX-A330
I’ve read all the previous posts, quite interested in what areas they concentrated on with you? I will PM you in a moment!
Wannaberightseat
I have roughly the same experience as you, i haven’t been given a sim session either. i believe this was sacked off in favour of flight grading some time ago, as were the computerised tests like the slalom etc (hasn’t appeared on my itinerary anyway)
haha, no admittedly the apology was with a measure of sarcasm!
Nevertheless, i am thankful to the guys like Chinabeached who take the time to post and to fill us in on the pitfalls of the icadet course and what to expect in HK. At least there will be no surprises further down the line. Having weighed all of their feedback up, and with all the negative aspects to the contract/life in mind, I’m still not put off.
CX-A330
I’ve read all the previous posts, quite interested in what areas they concentrated on with you? I will PM you in a moment!
Wannaberightseat
I have roughly the same experience as you, i haven’t been given a sim session either. i believe this was sacked off in favour of flight grading some time ago, as were the computerised tests like the slalom etc (hasn’t appeared on my itinerary anyway)
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sim
Thanks for all your posts.
As for all the positive and negative points on this forum (and yes, I have read all of them), I would still jump at the opportunity should Cathay offer me a position. No doubt a select few will tell me i'm mad and shouldn;t go for it. Sorry, its my choice and I have made it.
For the sim, when I was on stage 1, there were 4 guys on stage 2/3 and they did have the sim check which is why I was unsure when it didn't show on my itinerary. So, conflicting replies from Capt Underpants and Goaround737.
Has anybody been to Stage 2/3 in the last couple of weeks? If so, can you post if you did have the sim check please.
Regards
As for all the positive and negative points on this forum (and yes, I have read all of them), I would still jump at the opportunity should Cathay offer me a position. No doubt a select few will tell me i'm mad and shouldn;t go for it. Sorry, its my choice and I have made it.
For the sim, when I was on stage 1, there were 4 guys on stage 2/3 and they did have the sim check which is why I was unsure when it didn't show on my itinerary. So, conflicting replies from Capt Underpants and Goaround737.
Has anybody been to Stage 2/3 in the last couple of weeks? If so, can you post if you did have the sim check please.
Regards
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A few years ago Flight Training Adelaide provided a training to become a commercial pilot, working 3yrs as an instructor for FTA and then join CX as a SO. For this training there was no selection stages or things like that. Maybe some tests before the training but not after. Does this course still exist?
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Weird, that program has to be the albatross of disgrace on this whole wannabes program:
No, it's no longer offered. Why not?
CX reneged on its contract that HAD BEEN SIGNED AND AGREED TO BY THE COMPANY AND THE PROSPECTS.
CX tore them up. Yes, just like that. It's newest employees were told that there was a new contract and if they wanted to work for CX, these were the new T&C. No expat conditions (as contractually agreed), no housing (as contractually agreed) and yes, you can try and sue, but there will be no job for you if you try.
No, it's no longer offered. Why not?
CX reneged on its contract that HAD BEEN SIGNED AND AGREED TO BY THE COMPANY AND THE PROSPECTS.
CX tore them up. Yes, just like that. It's newest employees were told that there was a new contract and if they wanted to work for CX, these were the new T&C. No expat conditions (as contractually agreed), no housing (as contractually agreed) and yes, you can try and sue, but there will be no job for you if you try.
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Expat conditions
Cpt underpants,
When you speak of 'no expat conditions'.... Is that other that HKPLA that others were posting about? Or is there something else that has been removed?
When you speak of 'no expat conditions'.... Is that other that HKPLA that others were posting about? Or is there something else that has been removed?
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Thank you CB for confirming what I should have done a long time ago - simply stayed out of your blinkered "I and all others like me are worth more" mindset. If you were actually a CX pilot, I might actually continue this debate, but most likely over a beer in HK sometime. As you aren't, I simply don't understand the anger that possesses you to keep on at this. You went for a position with CX, according to you, you turned it down because the package wasn't sufficient. Case closed, in my book.
MOVE ON!
I will sign off (once and for all this time) by simply saying this: no, my bosses are no angels. Noone is. However, I will say they are employed to do the best by the company, not themselves. They are there to ensure share-holder profit. I rely on this simple example of market economics to dictate that when CX salaries are not high enough to attract enough people, they increase them. They cannot pay the lowest salaries, because they would park planes. Just as they do for accountants, engineers, cabin crew and others. No doubt you will fling the 49ers book in my face and spout some conspiracy theory about how people in positions of authority are only there to safeguard their own wealth and security, but don't waste your time: I'm simply not interested in those arguments. If you want to go through the rest of your life thinking that CX management's only reason for existence is to continually make pilots' lives a living hell, go ahead. I choose to think CX management's reason for existence is to ensure a growing, thriving company continues to make good profit. One part of that is ensuring costs don't get too high, granted. But salaries can not stop growing so as to compromise the growth of the airline.
If anyone wants to continue this debate at any time in CX City, I'd be more than happy to oblige. There are many things that CX has done wrong, but on the whole, they look after their employees.
Last point - to whoever was asking about whether the HKPA could be spent on buying an overseas property - of course! It's an allowance for you to do with as you please. Guess what - you don't even have to spend it on property if you don't want to. It has nothing to do with housing.
Thank you and good luck to all those who apply.
MOVE ON!
I will sign off (once and for all this time) by simply saying this: no, my bosses are no angels. Noone is. However, I will say they are employed to do the best by the company, not themselves. They are there to ensure share-holder profit. I rely on this simple example of market economics to dictate that when CX salaries are not high enough to attract enough people, they increase them. They cannot pay the lowest salaries, because they would park planes. Just as they do for accountants, engineers, cabin crew and others. No doubt you will fling the 49ers book in my face and spout some conspiracy theory about how people in positions of authority are only there to safeguard their own wealth and security, but don't waste your time: I'm simply not interested in those arguments. If you want to go through the rest of your life thinking that CX management's only reason for existence is to continually make pilots' lives a living hell, go ahead. I choose to think CX management's reason for existence is to ensure a growing, thriving company continues to make good profit. One part of that is ensuring costs don't get too high, granted. But salaries can not stop growing so as to compromise the growth of the airline.
If anyone wants to continue this debate at any time in CX City, I'd be more than happy to oblige. There are many things that CX has done wrong, but on the whole, they look after their employees.
Last point - to whoever was asking about whether the HKPA could be spent on buying an overseas property - of course! It's an allowance for you to do with as you please. Guess what - you don't even have to spend it on property if you don't want to. It has nothing to do with housing.
Thank you and good luck to all those who apply.
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Is that is an official Star Chamber invitation?
I wonder how many ADL instructors were asked to come to CX City for a sit down chat about their contracts torn up?
49ers book a conspiracy theory? What an utter & indigestible insult to all those who went through & continue to go through the pure hell that it still is. And we wonder where the comment that pilots will always be their own worst enemy comes from with ankle-clenchers like this.
Voice - you've lost complete credibility.
I wonder how many ADL instructors were asked to come to CX City for a sit down chat about their contracts torn up?
49ers book a conspiracy theory? What an utter & indigestible insult to all those who went through & continue to go through the pure hell that it still is. And we wonder where the comment that pilots will always be their own worst enemy comes from with ankle-clenchers like this.
Voice - you've lost complete credibility.
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The other way
CB,
As Voice will probably not answer you, I will take the stand for an short moment.
You have to learn how to slow down and read the line. He said AND. Nowhere did he state that the 49ers-book was filled with conspiracy theories. Ease down and read slowly.
Furthermore, you are right, the package is a down right insult. So what, does Cathay need to offer in order make the package attractive for pilots like you IF you would aspire to fly with CX? Pegged to the inflation rate? Take into account the average mean of pay scales used for flightcrew at SQ, QF, EK, EY or any competitor? Measured yearly to the GDP and adjusted accordingly? Housing allowance of 20K HKD? An secured Provident Fund?
So far, I have seen many calculations based on the rental and property markets, global economy, regional economy and all does not add up for a living in HK as an SO. So, if a wannabe wants to join (and let’s just for argument sake assume he/she is an 27 year old, single, and has about 150 hours non-PIC.), what does he/she needs get offered? Does an offer like EK or EY do more justice to the potential commercial airmen?
I know this al hypothetical and off-topic, but as some of you gents are so willing to show the bad side of this, I would like to know what a potential viable solution actually is for an company like CX.
Because essentially you all tell the kids with SJS and like, that they have to walk away from the offer or else they are spineless idiots. So, let say this happens, and every wannabe is taken another road to fulfill his/her flying aspirations by doing hours in GA or the military. At CX, This will probably in turn make the upper level managers have to reconsider the package offered. This will lead to an even more disruptive rostering, pushing discretion to the limits, and other non-desirable situations, as it is already quite on the thin line and so in that perspective, it ought to mean the airline will have to either decide to quite some frequency on routes and start parking planes. Assuming they will not let it get to that stage, does the company HAVE to start to hire DESOs and or DEFOs? What package should they get?
Now, the DFO has given already away that the old terms will not be reinstated. So, there is no use of arguing about A-scales or B-scales or whatever. What alternative for the company is left? Again not looking from a wannabe perspective, but from a corporate one.
If you are prepared to answer the above, I reckon you will gain more understanding without too much repeating yourself. As some of these “kids” are by far not up to level you argue or bring forward your arguments, it might be an alternative route to bring your message across. Just my 2 cents worth.
I reckon, the ones who actually do understand from what angle you are coming, are NOT on this thread or are reading it from the sidelines with nothing to add. Some will try to engage in the thread, but it is not something wise to do with someone like yourself who has a hardened (albeit realistic) stance towards the CPP.
Once again, you and some others made perfectly clear what a wannabe must do before he/she even considers of joining a company like CX. That much has been said, but what does the company have to do in order to keep the recruitment alive? Or is that of non-importance for the topic at hand?
It is not meant to be sarcastic or cynic, I really do not know the answer. I just would like to see what someone else has to say for the other side of the spectrum. We know what the bad side is. There must be an good side. More importantly, how does an company like Cathay work to the good side IF it is even possible to do so?
You did mention that someone needs to defend his position on why he/she is in favor off taken up the package. True, when making the decision to accept or reject the offer it is important to factor in all possible perspectives, facts and long-term issues that one can find. However, regardless of the all of the above, it is up to every individual to decide what to do. It is no problem to burn down someone from an anonymous forum. However, if you want to have a constructive and lively “debate” as you stated before, you definitely need to show more than just shoot-to-kill critics. If you could display different styles of reasoning, it would help the audience that you are capable of interacting with a more objective view. Although you can keep on burning people on here individually by needling, making fun of, etc, the constructive part of your statements will eventually (and unfortunately) be pushed sideway, because it becomes too personal. I am ASSUMING that it is not the message you would like to bring across, because I am ASSUMING you want to show the world that this company has become one of the worst airlines to work for as aircrew with the current standards(or somewhere in the vicinity of that statement). By needling you do not attack the argument, but the person and therefore your argument regarding the CPP as valid as they are, lose momentum and that is a pity. If it is your intention to just have rants, I stand corrected and will step aside.
Nevertheless, keep telling your version of what is the reality, but do remember that this forum is indeed with spineless kids with SJS, and some will not be able to argue as lively and vividly like you do. Most of them will probably lose the interest of reading your information around it and still will apply to CPP, and if offered an cadetship, accept it, regardless if they are called spineless or gutless.
Yes, you and others have “forewarned” the newbies and all that comes with it. Unfortunately, the world is not the same place as it was a view years back and using the “cold hard” facts is not intmidating to many spineless kids with SJS anymore.
You can keep on arguing and telling the same story in the same style, but at one point –in this thread-you are running around in a hamster-wheel. Is that really worth your energy and time?
Once again, it is not meant to be cynic or sarcastic to anyone personally, all I would like to see for a just a brief moment whether there could be a positive constructive side or it is just a rat-race straight down to the gutter and in an couple of years, CX will be an mere memory?
Ofcourse if you want you can bash me down too and I will lose my credibility, dignity or whatever. So be it. Then again, I am not out to bash down you, I merely am somewhat intrigued by your STYLE of writing and want to try to have some insight about what makes you and others write in such an hardened style. I know that the gloves came off a long time ago on this thread, so I reckon I will try the softer approach for once. If it needs to be this “hard” way, no worries, I will just move nicely along and leave the fighting for the grown ups.
Barney Out.
No doubt you will fling the 49ers book in my face and spout some conspiracy theory about how people in positions of authority are only there to safeguard their own wealth and security
As Voice will probably not answer you, I will take the stand for an short moment.
You have to learn how to slow down and read the line. He said AND. Nowhere did he state that the 49ers-book was filled with conspiracy theories. Ease down and read slowly.
Furthermore, you are right, the package is a down right insult. So what, does Cathay need to offer in order make the package attractive for pilots like you IF you would aspire to fly with CX? Pegged to the inflation rate? Take into account the average mean of pay scales used for flightcrew at SQ, QF, EK, EY or any competitor? Measured yearly to the GDP and adjusted accordingly? Housing allowance of 20K HKD? An secured Provident Fund?
So far, I have seen many calculations based on the rental and property markets, global economy, regional economy and all does not add up for a living in HK as an SO. So, if a wannabe wants to join (and let’s just for argument sake assume he/she is an 27 year old, single, and has about 150 hours non-PIC.), what does he/she needs get offered? Does an offer like EK or EY do more justice to the potential commercial airmen?
I know this al hypothetical and off-topic, but as some of you gents are so willing to show the bad side of this, I would like to know what a potential viable solution actually is for an company like CX.
Because essentially you all tell the kids with SJS and like, that they have to walk away from the offer or else they are spineless idiots. So, let say this happens, and every wannabe is taken another road to fulfill his/her flying aspirations by doing hours in GA or the military. At CX, This will probably in turn make the upper level managers have to reconsider the package offered. This will lead to an even more disruptive rostering, pushing discretion to the limits, and other non-desirable situations, as it is already quite on the thin line and so in that perspective, it ought to mean the airline will have to either decide to quite some frequency on routes and start parking planes. Assuming they will not let it get to that stage, does the company HAVE to start to hire DESOs and or DEFOs? What package should they get?
Now, the DFO has given already away that the old terms will not be reinstated. So, there is no use of arguing about A-scales or B-scales or whatever. What alternative for the company is left? Again not looking from a wannabe perspective, but from a corporate one.
If you are prepared to answer the above, I reckon you will gain more understanding without too much repeating yourself. As some of these “kids” are by far not up to level you argue or bring forward your arguments, it might be an alternative route to bring your message across. Just my 2 cents worth.
I reckon, the ones who actually do understand from what angle you are coming, are NOT on this thread or are reading it from the sidelines with nothing to add. Some will try to engage in the thread, but it is not something wise to do with someone like yourself who has a hardened (albeit realistic) stance towards the CPP.
Once again, you and some others made perfectly clear what a wannabe must do before he/she even considers of joining a company like CX. That much has been said, but what does the company have to do in order to keep the recruitment alive? Or is that of non-importance for the topic at hand?
It is not meant to be sarcastic or cynic, I really do not know the answer. I just would like to see what someone else has to say for the other side of the spectrum. We know what the bad side is. There must be an good side. More importantly, how does an company like Cathay work to the good side IF it is even possible to do so?
You did mention that someone needs to defend his position on why he/she is in favor off taken up the package. True, when making the decision to accept or reject the offer it is important to factor in all possible perspectives, facts and long-term issues that one can find. However, regardless of the all of the above, it is up to every individual to decide what to do. It is no problem to burn down someone from an anonymous forum. However, if you want to have a constructive and lively “debate” as you stated before, you definitely need to show more than just shoot-to-kill critics. If you could display different styles of reasoning, it would help the audience that you are capable of interacting with a more objective view. Although you can keep on burning people on here individually by needling, making fun of, etc, the constructive part of your statements will eventually (and unfortunately) be pushed sideway, because it becomes too personal. I am ASSUMING that it is not the message you would like to bring across, because I am ASSUMING you want to show the world that this company has become one of the worst airlines to work for as aircrew with the current standards(or somewhere in the vicinity of that statement). By needling you do not attack the argument, but the person and therefore your argument regarding the CPP as valid as they are, lose momentum and that is a pity. If it is your intention to just have rants, I stand corrected and will step aside.
Nevertheless, keep telling your version of what is the reality, but do remember that this forum is indeed with spineless kids with SJS, and some will not be able to argue as lively and vividly like you do. Most of them will probably lose the interest of reading your information around it and still will apply to CPP, and if offered an cadetship, accept it, regardless if they are called spineless or gutless.
Yes, you and others have “forewarned” the newbies and all that comes with it. Unfortunately, the world is not the same place as it was a view years back and using the “cold hard” facts is not intmidating to many spineless kids with SJS anymore.
You can keep on arguing and telling the same story in the same style, but at one point –in this thread-you are running around in a hamster-wheel. Is that really worth your energy and time?
Once again, it is not meant to be cynic or sarcastic to anyone personally, all I would like to see for a just a brief moment whether there could be a positive constructive side or it is just a rat-race straight down to the gutter and in an couple of years, CX will be an mere memory?
Ofcourse if you want you can bash me down too and I will lose my credibility, dignity or whatever. So be it. Then again, I am not out to bash down you, I merely am somewhat intrigued by your STYLE of writing and want to try to have some insight about what makes you and others write in such an hardened style. I know that the gloves came off a long time ago on this thread, so I reckon I will try the softer approach for once. If it needs to be this “hard” way, no worries, I will just move nicely along and leave the fighting for the grown ups.
Barney Out.
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I have to agree with Barney. I for one try to ignore this thread except for a few snippets here and there. At most I come here for entertainment to watch everyone bash each other over the head. I prefer the real stories through PM's. They are much more balanced and coherent.
Just a whole bunch of repetitive ranting here, like five year olds who have drunk to much coke at a birthday party.
Just a whole bunch of repetitive ranting here, like five year olds who have drunk to much coke at a birthday party.
Good news, however EK only takes experienced crew for its expat package. Maybe an option for current CX crew frustrated at slow command times, the 'doom and gloom' that seems to be always spruiked by management, or the idiotic based-tax situation.
CX has now positioned itself as 'King of the Kids', and is only interested in starry-eyed wannabes with little or no experience, who Emirates would not touch with a barge pole.
CX has now positioned itself as 'King of the Kids', and is only interested in starry-eyed wannabes with little or no experience, who Emirates would not touch with a barge pole.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 14th Nov 2011 at 02:26.
barney31
Re-introduce full expat terms for iCadets. Let’s make it quite clear, iCadets are on “B” scale pay just like we are on. It is the housing allowance and the children’s education allowance that needs to be brought back to make the package acceptable.
Under the current expat terms a DESO for the first two years is on 50% of the full rental allowance, which in November is HK$32,950.00. After two years it goes to HK$65,900.00 as of the November figures. Once you’re an FO with eight years of total service it rises again to HK$84,700.00 and as a captain it rises to HK$103,500.00 as of the November figures. These figures do vary on a monthly basis because they are pegged to the HK Government Rental Index. Once you sign a lease though your allowance is frozen for two years which is the term of your lease.
The company did introduce an education allowance for iCadets from FO and above a few years ago but it is only for schools in HK. Under full expat terms, the education is available from when you join as a DESO and can be used for education outside HK. Why the company has chosen to only let the allowance be used for education only in HK for iCadets is a mystery to me because at the end of the day it is a no additional cost item to pay for education outside HK. Infact it is often cheaper because of the % paid for overseas schooling, exchange rates and the extremely high cost of schooling in Hong Kong.
Now having said all this, I can also see an argument for an apprenticeship period so the company isn’t out of pocket for the cost of training iCadets. What form this takes is open for debate. My proposition would be to increase from 2 years to 5 years the time an iCadet who came through the long course is on 50% of the full rental allowance. An iCadet who came through the advanced course, 4 years and someone who came through the transition course, i.e. the equivalent as a DESO, the normal 2 years. In exchange for the increased housing the company would abolish the forgivable loan after 6 years of service.
There has been a distinct lack of interest for the iCadet scheme, especially for the transition course. The company has already had to improve the iCadet package three times to try and attract people, i.e. education, HKPA and the forgivable loan.
So what, does Cathay need to offer in order make the package attractive
Under the current expat terms a DESO for the first two years is on 50% of the full rental allowance, which in November is HK$32,950.00. After two years it goes to HK$65,900.00 as of the November figures. Once you’re an FO with eight years of total service it rises again to HK$84,700.00 and as a captain it rises to HK$103,500.00 as of the November figures. These figures do vary on a monthly basis because they are pegged to the HK Government Rental Index. Once you sign a lease though your allowance is frozen for two years which is the term of your lease.
The company did introduce an education allowance for iCadets from FO and above a few years ago but it is only for schools in HK. Under full expat terms, the education is available from when you join as a DESO and can be used for education outside HK. Why the company has chosen to only let the allowance be used for education only in HK for iCadets is a mystery to me because at the end of the day it is a no additional cost item to pay for education outside HK. Infact it is often cheaper because of the % paid for overseas schooling, exchange rates and the extremely high cost of schooling in Hong Kong.
Now having said all this, I can also see an argument for an apprenticeship period so the company isn’t out of pocket for the cost of training iCadets. What form this takes is open for debate. My proposition would be to increase from 2 years to 5 years the time an iCadet who came through the long course is on 50% of the full rental allowance. An iCadet who came through the advanced course, 4 years and someone who came through the transition course, i.e. the equivalent as a DESO, the normal 2 years. In exchange for the increased housing the company would abolish the forgivable loan after 6 years of service.
There has been a distinct lack of interest for the iCadet scheme, especially for the transition course. The company has already had to improve the iCadet package three times to try and attract people, i.e. education, HKPA and the forgivable loan.
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HK stage 1 prep
Hi everyone,
Not to detract from the spirited conversation in this thread. I just wanted to see about getting some information. I've been a silent reader of this forum for close to a month now. Lots of good information!
I'm currently preparing for the stage 1 icadet interview which will be in HK. I haven't received any info about when this might take place just that CX asked me to confirm willingness to travel to HK for the interview.
I'm told that the Stage 1 is a bit different in HK than it is in other locations. I'm asking someone who is knowledgeable on this subject to send me a pm if they wouldn't mind answering a few questions of mine
. I'm also (obviously) interested in the whole current interview process so anyone willing to share some of that information is well is also greatly appreciated.
Best of luck to all on this forum in meeting their professional aviation goals!
PS: Many apologies for the US english!
Not to detract from the spirited conversation in this thread. I just wanted to see about getting some information. I've been a silent reader of this forum for close to a month now. Lots of good information!
I'm currently preparing for the stage 1 icadet interview which will be in HK. I haven't received any info about when this might take place just that CX asked me to confirm willingness to travel to HK for the interview.
I'm told that the Stage 1 is a bit different in HK than it is in other locations. I'm asking someone who is knowledgeable on this subject to send me a pm if they wouldn't mind answering a few questions of mine
. I'm also (obviously) interested in the whole current interview process so anyone willing to share some of that information is well is also greatly appreciated.Best of luck to all on this forum in meeting their professional aviation goals!
PS: Many apologies for the US english!
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iCadet program?
Folks, I'm seeing a lot of posts about how the iCadet program has gone down hill and is an insult to applicants, etc... etc...
I'm confused at what program you are speaking of. If you are talking about the International Cadet Application scheme, it is the same scheme used since 1988. It is the same as the local scheme used for many years, just opened to international cadets in 2009. At the time, it was never intended for anyone with lots of experience. The company saw that they could quadruple the amount of applicants by opening it to the rest of the world, and potentially get applicants who had a little more experience (as GA and training in Hong Kong is rare and extremely difficult). Cadets were never offered expat. All cadets have been local employees and knew upfront there was no housing allowance for them. Actually, the program has only gotten better as locals are now offered a $10K HKPLA.
What confuses me...when all of you applied to cathay in the passed (during the DEFO times), the cadet program was there. They were taking on the same types of applicants; people with little or no experience. You didn't seem to have a problem then, so why now do you tell applicants they are sell-outs, or stupid, or spineless (could go on for days with the insults thrown here). I'm not an applicant, but just a reader from the sidelines who is looking at both sides of the argument.
404 Titans - Again, Cadets never had expat terms. They are now, however, offered a HKPLA. From my understanding, there is a program in place similar to what you are saying for an apprenticeship. The forgivable loan, an estimated $210K AUD, is what cathay pays for the complete training of the 61 week course in Adelaide. For those who are on the 6 month advanced entry course, they will receive half of that money as a bonus when back in Hong Kong. Makes sense! Half the money given, as only half of the training is received. For those on Transition courses which only last 1-3 months, they are given 75% or more. 1/4 of the training is 3/4th the pay given back. Unfortunately, but understandibly, those who complete the full 61 weeks in Adelaide will not receive any extra bonus in Hong Kong, as the loan paid for the training. After 6 years of service, this loan is abolished and the cadet owes nothing.
Captain Dart - EK and British Airways have the same types of programs. British airways through a school in UK and EK through a school in Spain (they used to train their cadets at the same school in Adelaide that Cathay currently uses). Similarly, EK has recently opened their school to international cadets as well AND have added that they will accept P2X time. (Sounds like a direct hit at cathay as they are one of the few if not the only airline to my knowledge that gives a P2X rating)
CB - Hello again. Hope all is well. I've spoken with you before on this subject. I really don't think any cadets here (or at least any sane ones) take your experience for granted nor do they count it as nothing. I would doubt anyone applies to cathay with the hopes of making the industry worse than it is. Many are just looking for a job opportunity, and with the shiny packaging it looks great, and to some extent, is still a good opportunity given your personal situation. I agree with you, and agree more as I've read along these posts, there are many applicants to lazy to do the research themselves. This is evidenced by some of the questions being asked. I also agree, I would have thought it an insult if I applied as a DEFO and ended up in a pool, only to be offered a TT course as a "local applicant". And you have every right to be angry at Cathay for that. But you and a few others almost make it seem as though applicants that don't share your similar experiences are not "worthy" of being a part of this airline. But everyone who joins has to go through the same flight training as any other pilot in the world. And not all of them make it as I'm sure you know. A few people seem to have this misguided notion that once accepted for the cadet program, they are a part of cathay. Not the case. Cadets do fail out of training.
I understand and appreciate you and others sharing the negatives about the industry. And for the cadets that want to research this, it will help them see both sides of the spectrum. But in the end of the day, when someone decides to apply based on their circumstances, it doesn't make them spineless, stupid, or any other insults that have been hurled on this forum. It makes them an applicant. Whether or not they take the advice is on them.
Also, a lot have mentioned that Cathay has lowered the standards to the ground and will take anything and everything as long as it has a pulse. This is also not the case. For every applicant on this forum only some make it to the next interview, and only a handful make it to Adelaide, and even then are not guaranteed a job. This isn't to deter anyone or make any applicant feel as though there is no chance, but keep in mind it is very competitive and Cathay does still have a standard they are looking for. Sure its not just by flight hours (I'm sure there were guys back in the day with thousands of hours who did not make it because they did not possess the qualities that cathay looks for in its pilots).
TO ALL APPLICANTS - CB and others are right about the lack of research done. The same questions are posed on these threads over and over. I'm not talking about questions such as recent interviews, as the interview process may change. But i'm so sick of questions such as "I have an interview, what should I wear?" or "Its been 1 month and I haven't heard anything. What should I do?" or "What kind of math and english tests are given?" Go back through the pages as these questions have been answered over and over again. With that being said, Good luck to all of you. If you have heard both sides of the argument and have decided that you still would like a spot in Cathay, then by all means go for it. Wish you the best.
TO THE OTHERS - First, this forum, whether you want to agree or not, is a type of research. For those applicants who log in and ask REASONALBE questions, let them. They are not mindless drones, becasuse they ask about cathay here. To me it seems they are looking for answers.
Next, the airline is a business FIRST. Not one airline has had a flawless career where all the employees were completely happy about everything. I too have shared the opinion that the "fat cats" in management take the money while leaving the rest with nothing. But I know this is not always the case. I do Cathay is looking to sustain itself in whatever way it can. I've said before, I think they are going to ride the iCadet program for awhile, until they have to reinstate the DEFO and DESO programs.
Good luck to everyone!
I'm confused at what program you are speaking of. If you are talking about the International Cadet Application scheme, it is the same scheme used since 1988. It is the same as the local scheme used for many years, just opened to international cadets in 2009. At the time, it was never intended for anyone with lots of experience. The company saw that they could quadruple the amount of applicants by opening it to the rest of the world, and potentially get applicants who had a little more experience (as GA and training in Hong Kong is rare and extremely difficult). Cadets were never offered expat. All cadets have been local employees and knew upfront there was no housing allowance for them. Actually, the program has only gotten better as locals are now offered a $10K HKPLA.
What confuses me...when all of you applied to cathay in the passed (during the DEFO times), the cadet program was there. They were taking on the same types of applicants; people with little or no experience. You didn't seem to have a problem then, so why now do you tell applicants they are sell-outs, or stupid, or spineless (could go on for days with the insults thrown here). I'm not an applicant, but just a reader from the sidelines who is looking at both sides of the argument.
404 Titans - Again, Cadets never had expat terms. They are now, however, offered a HKPLA. From my understanding, there is a program in place similar to what you are saying for an apprenticeship. The forgivable loan, an estimated $210K AUD, is what cathay pays for the complete training of the 61 week course in Adelaide. For those who are on the 6 month advanced entry course, they will receive half of that money as a bonus when back in Hong Kong. Makes sense! Half the money given, as only half of the training is received. For those on Transition courses which only last 1-3 months, they are given 75% or more. 1/4 of the training is 3/4th the pay given back. Unfortunately, but understandibly, those who complete the full 61 weeks in Adelaide will not receive any extra bonus in Hong Kong, as the loan paid for the training. After 6 years of service, this loan is abolished and the cadet owes nothing.
Captain Dart - EK and British Airways have the same types of programs. British airways through a school in UK and EK through a school in Spain (they used to train their cadets at the same school in Adelaide that Cathay currently uses). Similarly, EK has recently opened their school to international cadets as well AND have added that they will accept P2X time. (Sounds like a direct hit at cathay as they are one of the few if not the only airline to my knowledge that gives a P2X rating)
CB - Hello again. Hope all is well. I've spoken with you before on this subject. I really don't think any cadets here (or at least any sane ones) take your experience for granted nor do they count it as nothing. I would doubt anyone applies to cathay with the hopes of making the industry worse than it is. Many are just looking for a job opportunity, and with the shiny packaging it looks great, and to some extent, is still a good opportunity given your personal situation. I agree with you, and agree more as I've read along these posts, there are many applicants to lazy to do the research themselves. This is evidenced by some of the questions being asked. I also agree, I would have thought it an insult if I applied as a DEFO and ended up in a pool, only to be offered a TT course as a "local applicant". And you have every right to be angry at Cathay for that. But you and a few others almost make it seem as though applicants that don't share your similar experiences are not "worthy" of being a part of this airline. But everyone who joins has to go through the same flight training as any other pilot in the world. And not all of them make it as I'm sure you know. A few people seem to have this misguided notion that once accepted for the cadet program, they are a part of cathay. Not the case. Cadets do fail out of training.
I understand and appreciate you and others sharing the negatives about the industry. And for the cadets that want to research this, it will help them see both sides of the spectrum. But in the end of the day, when someone decides to apply based on their circumstances, it doesn't make them spineless, stupid, or any other insults that have been hurled on this forum. It makes them an applicant. Whether or not they take the advice is on them.
Also, a lot have mentioned that Cathay has lowered the standards to the ground and will take anything and everything as long as it has a pulse. This is also not the case. For every applicant on this forum only some make it to the next interview, and only a handful make it to Adelaide, and even then are not guaranteed a job. This isn't to deter anyone or make any applicant feel as though there is no chance, but keep in mind it is very competitive and Cathay does still have a standard they are looking for. Sure its not just by flight hours (I'm sure there were guys back in the day with thousands of hours who did not make it because they did not possess the qualities that cathay looks for in its pilots).
TO ALL APPLICANTS - CB and others are right about the lack of research done. The same questions are posed on these threads over and over. I'm not talking about questions such as recent interviews, as the interview process may change. But i'm so sick of questions such as "I have an interview, what should I wear?" or "Its been 1 month and I haven't heard anything. What should I do?" or "What kind of math and english tests are given?" Go back through the pages as these questions have been answered over and over again. With that being said, Good luck to all of you. If you have heard both sides of the argument and have decided that you still would like a spot in Cathay, then by all means go for it. Wish you the best.
TO THE OTHERS - First, this forum, whether you want to agree or not, is a type of research. For those applicants who log in and ask REASONALBE questions, let them. They are not mindless drones, becasuse they ask about cathay here. To me it seems they are looking for answers.
Next, the airline is a business FIRST. Not one airline has had a flawless career where all the employees were completely happy about everything. I too have shared the opinion that the "fat cats" in management take the money while leaving the rest with nothing. But I know this is not always the case. I do Cathay is looking to sustain itself in whatever way it can. I've said before, I think they are going to ride the iCadet program for awhile, until they have to reinstate the DEFO and DESO programs.
Good luck to everyone!