Polish Presidential Flight Crash Thread
and what I am saying is that from the CVR evidence I see it would have made no difference.
We really need to get the FDR traces to know what exactly was going on in the aircraft - any sign of those anyone?
Arrakis
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Could someone explain it to me, how that is possible:
According to MAK's transcript, the Navigator was telling two different things at the same time:
10:40:49,6 - 10:40:50,1 NAV 90
10:40:50,0 - 10:40:51,3 NAV 80
10:40:51,8 - 10:40:52,4 NAV 60
10:40:52,3 - 10:40:53,1 NAV 50
10:40:53,0 - 10:40:53,6 NAV 40
According to MAK's transcript, the Navigator was telling two different things at the same time:
10:40:49,6 - 10:40:50,1 NAV 90
10:40:50,0 - 10:40:51,3 NAV 80
10:40:51,8 - 10:40:52,4 NAV 60
10:40:52,3 - 10:40:53,1 NAV 50
10:40:53,0 - 10:40:53,6 NAV 40
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Alice25: "Azrael229, OK, and if to forget ab the equipment - could the expression mean: "This is a desolate hole at the end of the world" ?"
(sorry for late reply, I have been away for couple of days)
This could mean something like that even though syntax is strange. I would risk saying that whole transcript sounds strange at places - like it was really hard tohear and they were collating it from understandable parts.
This also matches facts as this would be desolate hole at the end of the world for them.
(sorry for late reply, I have been away for couple of days)
This could mean something like that even though syntax is strange. I would risk saying that whole transcript sounds strange at places - like it was really hard tohear and they were collating it from understandable parts.
This also matches facts as this would be desolate hole at the end of the world for them.
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May I ask another questions?
If radio-altimeter is set to 100m (10:10:07,2; 10:10:10,6) and flying in auto-pilot mode (FMS, Universal Avionics UNS-1D), can it go below 100m without switching to manual mode?
When reaching 100m should radio-altimeter activate some kind of audio alert?
Why the last TAWS warning (10:41:00,5 - 10:41:01,8) "PULL UP, PULL" is not finished?
If radio-altimeter is set to 100m (10:10:07,2; 10:10:10,6) and flying in auto-pilot mode (FMS, Universal Avionics UNS-1D), can it go below 100m without switching to manual mode?
When reaching 100m should radio-altimeter activate some kind of audio alert?
Why the last TAWS warning (10:41:00,5 - 10:41:01,8) "PULL UP, PULL" is not finished?
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According to MAK's transcript, the Navigator was telling two different things at the same time
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If radio-altimeter is set to 100m (10:10:07,2; 10:10:10,6) and flying in auto-pilot mode (FMS, Universal Avionics UNS-1D), can it go below 100m without switching to manual mode?
I think that it has not been published that AP had been controlled by FMS. I read that vertical canal AP was switched in pitch stabilisation mode, setting only by nose down/up button. In this case there is no linking to altimeters.
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Offical MAK's report:
Tu-154
19/05/2010
...
b. Самолет был оборудован системой раннего предупреждения приближения земли типа TAWS и системой управления полетом UNS-1D (FMS). Системы TAWS и FMS была включены и работоспособны
8/06/2010
...
Завершен анализ материалов предварительного отчёта фирмы Universal Avionics Systems Corporation (UASC) об исследовании информации бортовой системы предупреждения столкновения с землёй (TAWS – Terrain Avoidance Warning System) и бортовых компьютеров (FMS UNS-1D), установленных на самолёте.
Tu-154
19/05/2010
...
b. Самолет был оборудован системой раннего предупреждения приближения земли типа TAWS и системой управления полетом UNS-1D (FMS). Системы TAWS и FMS была включены и работоспособны
8/06/2010
...
Завершен анализ материалов предварительного отчёта фирмы Universal Avionics Systems Corporation (UASC) об исследовании информации бортовой системы предупреждения столкновения с землёй (TAWS – Terrain Avoidance Warning System) и бортовых компьютеров (FMS UNS-1D), установленных на самолёте.
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OK, here is translation:
b. The plane was equipped with an early warning system land approach type TAWS and flight management system UNS-1D (FMS). Systems TAWS and FMS were switched on and working.
MAK's analysis of the preliminary report issued by Universal Avionics Systems Corporation (UASC) on the study of TAWS system and computers (FMS UNS-1D) installed on the aircraft determined that the equipment was properly functioning and provided the crew and aircraft systems with necessary information.
b. The plane was equipped with an early warning system land approach type TAWS and flight management system UNS-1D (FMS). Systems TAWS and FMS were switched on and working.
MAK's analysis of the preliminary report issued by Universal Avionics Systems Corporation (UASC) on the study of TAWS system and computers (FMS UNS-1D) installed on the aircraft determined that the equipment was properly functioning and provided the crew and aircraft systems with necessary information.
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GoogleTranslate (not an authority but a good first-response tool) gives that word in parentheses the following translations: trial, test, pilot 
, tentative, experimental, specimen.
, tentative, experimental, specimen.
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Tiger65, as a native Russian speaker, I can assure you that what you write is not a translation of these two Russian paragraphs. See the correct translation at Simon Hradecky's Aviation Herald, Crash: Polish Air Force T154 at Smolensk on Apr 10th 2010, impacted trees on first approach
So again, what's your point?
So again, what's your point?
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I am not a native Russian speaker 
As for the translation. As the native speaker you can read MAK's report in Russian. A rough translation of the second paragraph I extended by a next sentence from the MAK's report which I forgot to copy.
Here is original text:
" Завершен анализ материалов предварительного отчёта фирмы Universal Avionics Systems Corporation (UASC) об исследовании информации бортовой системы предупреждения столкновения с землёй (TAWS – Terrain Avoidance Warning System) и бортовых компьютеров (FMS UNS-1D), установленных на самолёте.
В результате проведённого исследования, которое было начато 4-го мая 2010 года в лаборатории исследовательского центра компании UASC в Рэдмонде (США, шт. Вашингтон), установлено, что данное оборудование в полёте 10 апреля с.г. было исправно и обеспечивало экипаж и системы самолёта необходимой информацией."
You have to admit that the core of translation has been preserved.
The link you provided me with, does not contain an exact translation but a summary of the report.
Nevertheless, I wanted to point out the Flight Management System (FMS, UNS-1D) was working until final impact. And therefore I asked those questions, hoping the experts could answer them:
If radio-altimeter is set to 100m (10:10:07,2; 10:10:10,6) and flying in auto-pilot mode (FMS, Universal Avionics UNS-1D), can it go below 100m without switching to manual mode?
When reaching 100m should radio-altimeter activate some kind of audio alert?
As for the translation. As the native speaker you can read MAK's report in Russian. A rough translation of the second paragraph I extended by a next sentence from the MAK's report which I forgot to copy.
Here is original text:
" Завершен анализ материалов предварительного отчёта фирмы Universal Avionics Systems Corporation (UASC) об исследовании информации бортовой системы предупреждения столкновения с землёй (TAWS – Terrain Avoidance Warning System) и бортовых компьютеров (FMS UNS-1D), установленных на самолёте.
В результате проведённого исследования, которое было начато 4-го мая 2010 года в лаборатории исследовательского центра компании UASC в Рэдмонде (США, шт. Вашингтон), установлено, что данное оборудование в полёте 10 апреля с.г. было исправно и обеспечивало экипаж и системы самолёта необходимой информацией."
You have to admit that the core of translation has been preserved.
The link you provided me with, does not contain an exact translation but a summary of the report.
Nevertheless, I wanted to point out the Flight Management System (FMS, UNS-1D) was working until final impact. And therefore I asked those questions, hoping the experts could answer them:
If radio-altimeter is set to 100m (10:10:07,2; 10:10:10,6) and flying in auto-pilot mode (FMS, Universal Avionics UNS-1D), can it go below 100m without switching to manual mode?
When reaching 100m should radio-altimeter activate some kind of audio alert?
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To Tiger65
Good point with overlapping readings.
However, I must agree with some of the comments that followed your post - it is just a rounding.
Overall I agree that this kind of precision (1/10 of a second) serves no purpose. Maybe except that it does confuse reader and also impress on the reader that the transcript supposedly is really precise.
On other topic (with 1/10 seconds omitted):
10:10:13 [Navigator] Fuel
10:10:14 [2nd Pilot] Approximately 11 tonnes for landing.
(..)
10:18:22 [Unidentified] How much fuel do we have?
10:18:24 [2nd Pilot] We have approximately 13- 12,5 tonnes.
(..)
10:23:47 [ATC] Polish Foxtrot 1-0-1, remaining fuel, how much fuel do you have?
10:23:55 [Capitan] 11 tonnes remaining.
(..)
10:33:23 [Unrecognized] Fuel.
10:33:25 [Flight Engineer] Currently we have 12 tonnes.
Why so erratic fuel readings?
Transcript in Google Docs, can be viewed online or downloaded to Excel.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...WMjdnY3c&hl=en
Link for sharing: http://bit.ly/92Jb76
Good point with overlapping readings.
However, I must agree with some of the comments that followed your post - it is just a rounding.
Overall I agree that this kind of precision (1/10 of a second) serves no purpose. Maybe except that it does confuse reader and also impress on the reader that the transcript supposedly is really precise.
On other topic (with 1/10 seconds omitted):
10:10:13 [Navigator] Fuel
10:10:14 [2nd Pilot] Approximately 11 tonnes for landing.
(..)
10:18:22 [Unidentified] How much fuel do we have?
10:18:24 [2nd Pilot] We have approximately 13- 12,5 tonnes.
(..)
10:23:47 [ATC] Polish Foxtrot 1-0-1, remaining fuel, how much fuel do you have?
10:23:55 [Capitan] 11 tonnes remaining.
(..)
10:33:23 [Unrecognized] Fuel.
10:33:25 [Flight Engineer] Currently we have 12 tonnes.
Why so erratic fuel readings?
Transcript in Google Docs, can be viewed online or downloaded to Excel.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...WMjdnY3c&hl=en
Link for sharing: http://bit.ly/92Jb76
If radio-altimeter is set to 100m (10:10:07,2; 10:10:10,6) and flying in auto-pilot mode (FMS, Universal Avionics UNS-1D), can it go below 100m without switching to manual mode?
Tu-154M autopilot is the ABSU-154-2. No public information how/if it was somehow interconnected with UNS.
When reaching 100m should radio-altimeter activate some kind of audio alert?
RA set later to 60 m.
Arrakis
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LeClercus, the transcript isn't made to impress or confuse anybody, it's just a (interim) technical result of the work of the investigation commission employing appropriate available technologies.
As of the fuel quantities announced by the flight crew, it's a question to the flight crew, which, unfortunately, they cannot answer on the account of their all being dead. As of the real fuel quantity readings, we may or may not know that from the FDR data which hopefully will be published in the upcoming interim and/or final reports of the investigation commission.
As of the fuel quantities announced by the flight crew, it's a question to the flight crew, which, unfortunately, they cannot answer on the account of their all being dead. As of the real fuel quantity readings, we may or may not know that from the FDR data which hopefully will be published in the upcoming interim and/or final reports of the investigation commission.
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LeClercus - greetings - I do not see anything odd in the fuel figures. I suspect a little language confusion there.
Note that 10:10:14 [2nd Pilot] "Approximately 11 tonnes for landing" is estimated fuel after landing at Smolensk
10:18:24 [2nd Pilot] "We have approximately 13- 12,5 tonnes" would, I expect be the fuel figure on board at the time..
10:23:55 [Capitan] "11 tonnes remaining" - I believe to be estimated on landing for ATC benefit
10:33:25 [Flight Engineer] "Currently we have 12 tonnes" is 15 minutes after12.5 -13 tonnes is reported on board and is about right - to have burnt around .5 -1 Tonne (2-4 tonnes per hour)
Note that 10:10:14 [2nd Pilot] "Approximately 11 tonnes for landing" is estimated fuel after landing at Smolensk
10:18:24 [2nd Pilot] "We have approximately 13- 12,5 tonnes" would, I expect be the fuel figure on board at the time..
10:23:55 [Capitan] "11 tonnes remaining" - I believe to be estimated on landing for ATC benefit
10:33:25 [Flight Engineer] "Currently we have 12 tonnes" is 15 minutes after12.5 -13 tonnes is reported on board and is about right - to have burnt around .5 -1 Tonne (2-4 tonnes per hour)
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To dvv, LeClercus
Another examples of overlapped readings (answers before questions are completed):
10:20:56,9 - 10:20:59,8 [FA] Arus, zapinamy pasy? / Arus, do we fasten seatbelts?
10:20:59,4 - 10:21:01,6 [Capt.] Pasy zapinamy / We fasten seatbelts
10:39:13,6 - 10:39:15,2 [Nav] Zaciazacze przelotowe / Flight ballast
10:39:14,9 - 10:39:16,4 [Capt.] Odlaczone, swieca / Detached, on
10:39:16,4 - 10:39:17,2 [Nav] Interceptory / Interceptors
10:39:16,7 - 10:39:18: KPT [Capt.] Schowane, nie swieca / Not released, not on
10:39:22 - 10:39:23 [Nav] Podwozie / Landing gear
10:39:22,4 - 10:39:23,9 [Flight Eng.] Wypuszczone / Released
10:39:23,8 - 10:39:25,2 [Nav] Wentylatory kol / Wheel fans
10:39:24,6 - 10:39:25,9 [Flight Eng.] Wlaczone / on
10:20:56,9 - 10:20:59,8 [FA] Arus, zapinamy pasy? / Arus, do we fasten seatbelts?
10:20:59,4 - 10:21:01,6 [Capt.] Pasy zapinamy / We fasten seatbelts
10:39:13,6 - 10:39:15,2 [Nav] Zaciazacze przelotowe / Flight ballast
10:39:14,9 - 10:39:16,4 [Capt.] Odlaczone, swieca / Detached, on
10:39:16,4 - 10:39:17,2 [Nav] Interceptory / Interceptors
10:39:16,7 - 10:39:18: KPT [Capt.] Schowane, nie swieca / Not released, not on
10:39:22 - 10:39:23 [Nav] Podwozie / Landing gear
10:39:22,4 - 10:39:23,9 [Flight Eng.] Wypuszczone / Released
10:39:23,8 - 10:39:25,2 [Nav] Wentylatory kol / Wheel fans
10:39:24,6 - 10:39:25,9 [Flight Eng.] Wlaczone / on