Polish Presidential Flight Crash Thread
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For a first time had read the entire transcript provided by Tiger. I did not want to read it for a long time. Had met with a friend American military expert ( the last party ) and we could not tell that any of the mentioned by others representatives were drunk, so why would anyone drink before this “ final trip”. Even, if a little bit then what? The pressure on the pilot performed much earlier is not really coherent to this tragedy. Thank you Potato 232 for the description of VIPS. However, all were just normal simple people, with the simple life goals. Some were pilots as well. The entire black box should be taken again to London . Actually, if it would had been one of the Presidents, all would had immediately recognized his voice anyway. It’s simple. There are many an unswered questions.
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I think that MAK did not state that outter part of wing was teared off immediately after collision with the birch. It could be significantly destroyed and separated one secound later, for example after collision with high voltage line.
Words of Dr. Wieslaw Binienda "cutting the birch with only a small amount of damage to the edge of the wing" cause dubts about his professional qualifications.
Words of Dr. Wieslaw Binienda "cutting the birch with only a small amount of damage to the edge of the wing" cause dubts about his professional qualifications.
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Knowing how stupid renowned medical doctors and professors can be (in a narrow specific area of endocrinology deeply researched by me for couple decades), I'm not surprised with how stupid some multiple-degreed technical doctors can be (in any area).
P.S. For some reason this my message was inserted before the message I replied to. Perhaps a bug with handling timezones. What I wanted to say is that his university post, publications, degrees and awards didn't impress me in the least.
P.S. For some reason this my message was inserted before the message I replied to. Perhaps a bug with handling timezones. What I wanted to say is that his university post, publications, degrees and awards didn't impress me in the least.
Last edited by Lena.Kiev; 26th Nov 2011 at 22:40.
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Words of Dr. Wieslaw Binienda "cutting the birch with only a small amount of damage to the edge of the wing" cause dubts about his professional qualifications.
Symposium 6: Ballistic Impact and Crashworthiness Response of Aerospace Structures
Co-Chair: Wieslaw Binienda, Ph.D., F. ASCE, University of Akron
ASCE News, November 2007 Volume 32, Number 11
People
Wieslaw K. Binienda, Ph.D., M.ASCE, the chair of the civil engineering department in the University of Akron's College of Engineering, has received the Turning Goals into Reality Award from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (nasa) for his work on a nasa team dealing with containment concepts as they relate to jet engines. Binienda's contributions to the team included numerical simulations in impact and postimpact experiments; material and model development; and assistance to General Electric, Honeywell International, and Williams International in the design process for jet engine composite containment systems. The author of more than 80 publications and the recipient of numerous awards, Binienda became a member of the Akron faculty in 1988. His research interests include composite materials testing and processing, material characterization, micromechanics-based modeling, and the implementation of such rigorous techniques as singular integral equations for the analysis of composite damage and failure mechanisms. After obtaining a master's degree in Poland from the Warsaw University of Technology, Binienda earned a master's degree and a doctorate, both in mechanical engineering, at Drexel University.
If you need his CV: The University of Akron : Individual Faculty Profile
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What I wanted to say is that his university post, publications, degrees and awards didn't impress me in the least.
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The Mak report is a joke..... Russia is still a dictatorship with 70% of it's government being former KGB, the country is corrupted, Putin is an dictator who does as he pleases.....so what do you expect? an honest MAK report?....
yeah right!...I wouldn't think so
yeah right!...I wouldn't think so
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I'm not interested in university games. If the wing was not broken by the birch but damaged and couldn't bear the load anymore (so broke a second after collision), what's the difference?
Except for publications for continued university salary.
Except for publications for continued university salary.
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i have read the original mak report and would say it basicly matches the thruth. maybe some exeptions of small things , maybe some hidden facts that the airport was badly equipped ( parts of approach light bulbs blown etc)
but all in all the main cause of the crash is going brutally below minimums in bad wether and a controlled flight into ground with a fully funcional aircraft in my opinion.
but all in all the main cause of the crash is going brutally below minimums in bad wether and a controlled flight into ground with a fully funcional aircraft in my opinion.
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Latest findings on Polish 101 (dr. Binienda and his team):
Polish government plane was tossed about twice over the airport seconds before crash « Extra News
Polish government plane was tossed about twice over the airport seconds before crash « Extra News
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I like this comic strip. In the same way, the grand fraud (of vegetable oil producers) that allegedly saturated fats cause atherosclerosis and dietary fats cause obesity is perpetuated.
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On September 8, 2011, Dr. Wieslaw Binienda, an expert on high-energy impacts on materials and structures testifying before the Polish Parliamentary Committee, proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the collision with the birch could not have ripped the outer portion of the wing from the aircraft. While applying all parameters presented in the IAC Final Report in a rigorous finite element analysis, he demonstrated through a virtual experiment that the high-energy impact causes the wing to act like an ax, cutting the birch with only a small amount of damage to the edge of the wing but without any damage to the lifting area of the wing
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the winglet of a Legacy bizjet take the outer half off the left wing of a GOL B737-800 in Brazil in 2006? I wouldn't imagine that the winglet would be as strong as a 30-40cm diameter birch tree.
There is the speed difference to take account of, but it would appear possible for the tree to at least partially sever a wing, even at the lower approach speed. I'm sure there are other accidents that would tend to support this.
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Mbar, I do not take any side in this crash investigation. However, I find both offficial reports (MAK's and Miller's) inconclusive.
Oakape, there are cases of aircraft incidents where either trees/metal pylons or wings are demaged/broken during impact:
Boeing 737-2D6C, Coventry 21/12/94
Air Accidents Investigation: Download PDF document
Air Accidents Investigation: Download PDF document
DC-3, 20/06/1996:
About Loren Davis Ministries
BEECHCRAFT A100 C-FSNA, GODS LAKE NARROWS, MANITOBA, Canada 22/11/2008:
Five survive northern Manitoba plane crash
Tu-204, Domodedovo, March 2010:
http://ncontent.life.ru/media/2/news/2010/03/17812/ 67410d66ce95816fe93a33d959e1d06d.mp4
Oakape, there are cases of aircraft incidents where either trees/metal pylons or wings are demaged/broken during impact:
Boeing 737-2D6C, Coventry 21/12/94
Air Accidents Investigation: Download PDF document
Air Accidents Investigation: Download PDF document
DC-3, 20/06/1996:
About Loren Davis Ministries
BEECHCRAFT A100 C-FSNA, GODS LAKE NARROWS, MANITOBA, Canada 22/11/2008:
Five survive northern Manitoba plane crash
Tu-204, Domodedovo, March 2010:
http://ncontent.life.ru/media/2/news/2010/03/17812/ 67410d66ce95816fe93a33d959e1d06d.mp4
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Mechanical calculations cannot be more accurate then the mathematical or phisical model you are using. You can use such model and choose such point of impact force so the damage is very minimalised. It is not problem for any engeneer. It is not physical question but a question of responsibility, true and independence of their minds.
High lift device on leading edge /slots/ was surely considerable destroyed after impact to the birtch tree. Lets forget rest of wing. Asymetric lift necessarily caused uncontrolled roll and after secound contact with wires of HV line. After it, the part of wing was completly separated and find on the ground. Where is problem? MAK report is not in conflict with this scenario.
No comment
High lift device on leading edge /slots/ was surely considerable destroyed after impact to the birtch tree. Lets forget rest of wing. Asymetric lift necessarily caused uncontrolled roll and after secound contact with wires of HV line. After it, the part of wing was completly separated and find on the ground. Where is problem? MAK report is not in conflict with this scenario.
Binienda...argued that...the machine could have lost only a small edge of the wing and this would not have influenced the stability of the plane.
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Karel_x
According to the recent findings I enclosed, there was no any impact with those two birch trees. The plane flew above them and lost the part of wing 70 meters behind the second birch due to critical overload (more than 5g).
According to the Miller's report the HV lines were cut by flying tree branches. Although, it arguably happend 2 minutes ealier it should have (time of the event was registered by power plant computer).
As for the wing, there are registered cases where plane loses part or even whole wing and lands safely.
According to the recent findings I enclosed, there was no any impact with those two birch trees. The plane flew above them and lost the part of wing 70 meters behind the second birch due to critical overload (more than 5g).
According to the Miller's report the HV lines were cut by flying tree branches. Although, it arguably happend 2 minutes ealier it should have (time of the event was registered by power plant computer).
As for the wing, there are registered cases where plane loses part or even whole wing and lands safely.
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The only whole-wing loss I know of was an Israeli AF F-15, and in that aircraft, a substantial amount of lift is produced by the entire wing root/fuselage juncture area, so the pilot in fact didn't even know he'd lost the entire wing until after he'd landed. He of course knew something was seriously wrong and held the airplane relatively stable by using full power, but he was unaware of the extent of the damage.
No conventional-airframe aircraft, ie like the Polish aircraft, could possibly lose an entire wing and "land safely."
No conventional-airframe aircraft, ie like the Polish aircraft, could possibly lose an entire wing and "land safely."
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According to the recent findings I enclosed, there was no any impact with those two birch trees. The plane flew above them
As for the wing, there are registered cases where plane loses part or even whole wing and lands safely.