CRM Material Repository
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CRM Material Repository
At the UK CAA Cabin CRM conference on 29 Jan 09 the call went up once again that CRM facilitators can never find new materials.
So, I have set up crm resource central - CRM Facilitator's swapshop
Ground rules are simple - give, don't just take. I've kicked it off by putting a load of old stuff up there from my files.
It's not a discussion forum; it's a swap shop.
So, I have set up crm resource central - CRM Facilitator's swapshop
Ground rules are simple - give, don't just take. I've kicked it off by putting a load of old stuff up there from my files.
It's not a discussion forum; it's a swap shop.
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Here's a weird thing
I've made 3 attempts to solicit input from cabin crew about crm using the cabin crew forum on this site. Seemed like a quick way to get in touch with lots of cabin crew. Each time the moderators deleted my message.
I have been told by the moderators that my study didn't appear to be of benefit to pprune and that it would have be courteous to have asked first. OK, it doesn't say anywhere that you need to seek permission before posting and I have to ask how 75% of what gets posted on pprune 'benefits pprune' or anyone who reads it.
My motive is to engage cabin crew in setting the agenda for cabin crew crm training; something that I think does not happen enough. Seems that's not a good enough reason to leave my posts up.
Follow up : A friend of mine was looking at doing an MSc in aviation human factors. They'd plan to look at the role of cabin crew in supporting the pilots in the advent of incapacitation. Apparently, one of the Greek Air Force F16 pilots who intercepted the Helios aircraft is doing just such a project - could cabin crew gain sufficient control of the aircraft to prevent disaster should both pilots become incapacitated. My friend was having a conversation with an Inspector at the Big Grey Place and was left in no doubt that the roles of cabin crew is to serve coffee. Hmmmm.
I have been told by the moderators that my study didn't appear to be of benefit to pprune and that it would have be courteous to have asked first. OK, it doesn't say anywhere that you need to seek permission before posting and I have to ask how 75% of what gets posted on pprune 'benefits pprune' or anyone who reads it.
My motive is to engage cabin crew in setting the agenda for cabin crew crm training; something that I think does not happen enough. Seems that's not a good enough reason to leave my posts up.
Follow up : A friend of mine was looking at doing an MSc in aviation human factors. They'd plan to look at the role of cabin crew in supporting the pilots in the advent of incapacitation. Apparently, one of the Greek Air Force F16 pilots who intercepted the Helios aircraft is doing just such a project - could cabin crew gain sufficient control of the aircraft to prevent disaster should both pilots become incapacitated. My friend was having a conversation with an Inspector at the Big Grey Place and was left in no doubt that the roles of cabin crew is to serve coffee. Hmmmm.
Last edited by turbocharged; 26th Feb 2009 at 08:58.
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CRM links page
A friend sent me a link that is new to me. FAA Lessons learned from aircraft accidents:
Lessons Learned From Transport Airplane Accidents
I've added a links page to the crm materials sharing site. please feel free to add any websites you think are of use to crm facilitators.
Lessons Learned From Transport Airplane Accidents
I've added a links page to the crm materials sharing site. please feel free to add any websites you think are of use to crm facilitators.
Turbocharged.
Don't get disheartened, keep going, you will get a response soon. Not many people seem to read this 'corner' of prune and it always seems to be answers by the same people. Good luck and keep at it
Don't get disheartened, keep going, you will get a response soon. Not many people seem to read this 'corner' of prune and it always seems to be answers by the same people. Good luck and keep at it
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Cheers
Roger,
Many thanks. I'm not bovvvered, to coin an awful phrase. Prune actually provides most of the traffic to the site so this little connection is working well. However, I have been to 2 CAA CRM conferences where people have asked about sources of material and there is another web forum where there are frequent requests ("I'm running a session on x. Can anyone let me have a good lesson plan, ppt, videos, case study and, oh, can you maybe turn up next week and teach it for me").
CRM materials have no perceived net value even though it can take a couple of days to research and prepare a decent case study. I had one client that was most insistent that they wanted a 2 day course specifically tailored to their operation but they were not prepared to pay for any development time.
It makes me laugh when Ops Directors and Trg Mgrs complain that CRM training serves no real purpose other than regulatory compliance. I'm afraid you get what you pay for.
I just find it hard to believe that not a single visitor to the site has anything at all they are able to share.
Anyway, Wales lost to France .. so there is a God after all ... maybe
:-)
Many thanks. I'm not bovvvered, to coin an awful phrase. Prune actually provides most of the traffic to the site so this little connection is working well. However, I have been to 2 CAA CRM conferences where people have asked about sources of material and there is another web forum where there are frequent requests ("I'm running a session on x. Can anyone let me have a good lesson plan, ppt, videos, case study and, oh, can you maybe turn up next week and teach it for me").
CRM materials have no perceived net value even though it can take a couple of days to research and prepare a decent case study. I had one client that was most insistent that they wanted a 2 day course specifically tailored to their operation but they were not prepared to pay for any development time.
It makes me laugh when Ops Directors and Trg Mgrs complain that CRM training serves no real purpose other than regulatory compliance. I'm afraid you get what you pay for.
I just find it hard to believe that not a single visitor to the site has anything at all they are able to share.
Anyway, Wales lost to France .. so there is a God after all ... maybe
:-)
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Turbocharged. Just a suggestion that may help. I just visited the site intending to upload some stuff, as I thought it was disappointing that you have had a poor response. I'm not a computer black belt, and couldnt see anything at all on the homepage about how to upload or download anything. Its not exactly obvious for us novices (Oh god, I sound like a granny!)
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you and me both! because the site is free I think they deliberately make it a pretty erm unfunctional ... if such a word exists. What you have to do is hit the 'forum' tab and then either reply to a discussion or start a new one. There is a link at the bottom of the text box that asks if you want to upload files.I'm planning to maybe reorganise the content using the JAA topic list instead of the rather random 'throw it up' way its developed.
As for the lack of response, I reckon people are just shy .....
Thanks for your input
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I'm not a site computer guru but several observations ..
I've made 3 attempts to solicit input from cabin crew about crm using the cabin crew forum on this site. Seemed like a quick way to get in touch with lots of cabin crew. Each time the moderators deleted my message.
There is a site policy regarding surveys and the like. Shouldn't present a problem in this forum in general. Protocol is to send me a note re the plan and I'll flick it up the chain for a decision. Keep in mind that there is a mod hierarchy and that mod action on a given thread may be by the "super" mods directly and not involve those of us who look after the day to day stuff.
they wanted a 2 day course specifically tailored to their operation but they were not prepared to pay for any development time.
Welcome to the real world .. and it applies across all disciplines, not just HF related matters.
couldn't see anything at all on the homepage about how to upload or download anything
However, there is no problem with linking to another site for the purpose .. a bit of a nuisance but it works OK.
because the site is free I think they deliberately make it a pretty erm unfunctional
I think that comment is a tad unfair. One needs to look at the history of the site's development to gain an appreciation of the difficulties faced over the years by Danny and Rob, in particular. Overall, for the intended purpose, the site motors along pretty smoothly.
I've made 3 attempts to solicit input from cabin crew about crm using the cabin crew forum on this site. Seemed like a quick way to get in touch with lots of cabin crew. Each time the moderators deleted my message.
There is a site policy regarding surveys and the like. Shouldn't present a problem in this forum in general. Protocol is to send me a note re the plan and I'll flick it up the chain for a decision. Keep in mind that there is a mod hierarchy and that mod action on a given thread may be by the "super" mods directly and not involve those of us who look after the day to day stuff.
they wanted a 2 day course specifically tailored to their operation but they were not prepared to pay for any development time.
Welcome to the real world .. and it applies across all disciplines, not just HF related matters.
couldn't see anything at all on the homepage about how to upload or download anything
However, there is no problem with linking to another site for the purpose .. a bit of a nuisance but it works OK.
because the site is free I think they deliberately make it a pretty erm unfunctional
I think that comment is a tad unfair. One needs to look at the history of the site's development to gain an appreciation of the difficulties faced over the years by Danny and Rob, in particular. Overall, for the intended purpose, the site motors along pretty smoothly.
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John,
Reference to 'the site' was the ning site I'm using to host the CRM stuff. Nothing to do with Pprune.
Reference to the 'real world'. Been working in it for 32 years so have a good grasp. My point was really about people complaining that CRM offers little and yet companies really rely on their dedicated trainers investing their own time and effort to get anything of value.
My comments about the cabin crew. It was the cabin thread, not CRM. If I'd breached an unwritten protocol (I'd checked their guidance first) then a simple note would have solved the problem.
Reference to 'the site' was the ning site I'm using to host the CRM stuff. Nothing to do with Pprune.
Reference to the 'real world'. Been working in it for 32 years so have a good grasp. My point was really about people complaining that CRM offers little and yet companies really rely on their dedicated trainers investing their own time and effort to get anything of value.
My comments about the cabin crew. It was the cabin thread, not CRM. If I'd breached an unwritten protocol (I'd checked their guidance first) then a simple note would have solved the problem.
Moderator
My point was really about people complaining
concur totally.
then a simple note would have solved the problem
if 'twas I that moved your post, my apologies.
If a proposed survey is clearly serious, I send off a PM to the poster as well (unless I get distracted and overlook doing that .. fitting in mod work with the day job is a bit like patting one's head and rubbing one's tummy simultaneously whilst dancing a jig).
However, many edits are done by those higher up the ladder so it isn't always a simple matter to control.
concur totally.
then a simple note would have solved the problem
if 'twas I that moved your post, my apologies.
If a proposed survey is clearly serious, I send off a PM to the poster as well (unless I get distracted and overlook doing that .. fitting in mod work with the day job is a bit like patting one's head and rubbing one's tummy simultaneously whilst dancing a jig).
However, many edits are done by those higher up the ladder so it isn't always a simple matter to control.
tc Re “…people have asked about sources of material…” and the lack of response.
Could this indicate a need for material on what aspects should be taught, opposed to what content is taught elsewhere?
Perhaps this is an indication of the poor quality or disparate views of CRM training across the industry.
Could this indicate a need for material on what aspects should be taught, opposed to what content is taught elsewhere?
Perhaps this is an indication of the poor quality or disparate views of CRM training across the industry.
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What should be taught
If I just stick to EASAland, which is where I work, the regs are fairly broad: a table of topics and a reference to NOTECHS behavioural markers. They also say that CRM should be tailored to company needs and should be integrated into all phases of training.
In fact, the regulations are the product of muddled thinking.
The content of a training course does not need to be dictated by a set of regulations. A facilitator (or a training designed on behalf of the facilitator) should be able to identify what workplace performance needs to be developed, identify a set of skills and associated underpinning knowledge, define learning goals, develop the training intervention, deliver and - in a really perfect world - measure the effectiveness of the training. At that point, you go back to the regs and cross-reference. Now, if you cannot do that (or don't have access to that support) then, I am afraid, the job is not being done properly.
I don't know why there is such a lack of response given that the request for resources keeps coming up. Perhaps people don't document their training sessions with even the most basic lesson plan? Maybe people don't develop case studies? Maybe they really are just shy? Most of the stuff I put up was developed years ago when I was just starting out in this business. It's not earth-shattering and I couldn't give a tinkers cuss if someone wants to offer a critique. I do have very different views about CRM training now and wouldn't develop a course the same way today. But that is a whole different issue.
In fact, the regulations are the product of muddled thinking.
The content of a training course does not need to be dictated by a set of regulations. A facilitator (or a training designed on behalf of the facilitator) should be able to identify what workplace performance needs to be developed, identify a set of skills and associated underpinning knowledge, define learning goals, develop the training intervention, deliver and - in a really perfect world - measure the effectiveness of the training. At that point, you go back to the regs and cross-reference. Now, if you cannot do that (or don't have access to that support) then, I am afraid, the job is not being done properly.
I don't know why there is such a lack of response given that the request for resources keeps coming up. Perhaps people don't document their training sessions with even the most basic lesson plan? Maybe people don't develop case studies? Maybe they really are just shy? Most of the stuff I put up was developed years ago when I was just starting out in this business. It's not earth-shattering and I couldn't give a tinkers cuss if someone wants to offer a critique. I do have very different views about CRM training now and wouldn't develop a course the same way today. But that is a whole different issue.
tc my experiences in EASAland (in the lower levels of regional operations) suggest that many CRM refresher courses provide little more than an ‘ET’ like “be good” and “make friends” approach to behavior. CRM was still pink and fluffy and did not consider any of the ‘how to adapt and check behavior' aspects.
I add a caveat that based on many conferences etc, that there are many really good operators who do address CRM as intended – in their way. An aspect here is that these teams have spent much time and money on generating good in-house material and thus are reluctant to share it. Also, sharing case studies where available might be too much like airing dirty washing – as they relate to operator specific incidents.
Furthermore, these operators may have achieved the objective of integrating CRM into their daily operations, and thus the detail or mechanism of this is difficult to share – it’s a cultural thing.
I add a caveat that based on many conferences etc, that there are many really good operators who do address CRM as intended – in their way. An aspect here is that these teams have spent much time and money on generating good in-house material and thus are reluctant to share it. Also, sharing case studies where available might be too much like airing dirty washing – as they relate to operator specific incidents.
Furthermore, these operators may have achieved the objective of integrating CRM into their daily operations, and thus the detail or mechanism of this is difficult to share – it’s a cultural thing.
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PEI_3721
"An aspect here is that these teams have spent much time and money on generating good in-house material and thus are reluctant to share it"
If you look at the stuff I put up, it didn't appear by magic. It took me time and effort. However, it's now fairly dated and I don't use it. I'm providing a space for those who, like me, have clutter in their files.
I think I have said before that I get pissed off by the people who come up on another forum asking for a turnkey solution to their training task. My view is do your job or commission someone else to do it for you. I recognise that people have put in effort to generate good material and that should be rewarded. And how many times have you heard ' if its for safety then we should share'. I'm sorry but 'safety' doesn't mean 'freebie'. Fine if your company is happy to do that but it not a 'golden rule' of CRM in my book.
As for airing their dirty washing, no one suggested posting confidential in house stuff. The case studies I put up are all pubic domain. But it still needs people to search the databases, find appropriate examples and then sift the report for the content that is useful for a CRM class. I cannot believe others haven't done this?
"An aspect here is that these teams have spent much time and money on generating good in-house material and thus are reluctant to share it"
If you look at the stuff I put up, it didn't appear by magic. It took me time and effort. However, it's now fairly dated and I don't use it. I'm providing a space for those who, like me, have clutter in their files.
I think I have said before that I get pissed off by the people who come up on another forum asking for a turnkey solution to their training task. My view is do your job or commission someone else to do it for you. I recognise that people have put in effort to generate good material and that should be rewarded. And how many times have you heard ' if its for safety then we should share'. I'm sorry but 'safety' doesn't mean 'freebie'. Fine if your company is happy to do that but it not a 'golden rule' of CRM in my book.
As for airing their dirty washing, no one suggested posting confidential in house stuff. The case studies I put up are all pubic domain. But it still needs people to search the databases, find appropriate examples and then sift the report for the content that is useful for a CRM class. I cannot believe others haven't done this?
