What does a Captain expect from a FO?
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What does a Captain expect from a FO?
This is really a continuation of another post started by Dynamite Dean. It should of course also read, What does a FO expect from a Captain, which is just as important.
I have never quite understood CRM as it is presented by our company. This is mainly because it never addresses the problems. The main offenders still continue to be Dickheads and attract the same old comments. The interesting thing is that eveybody always agrees with everyone else's observations!
I should add that it dosnt help that in our company the CRM lecturer is universally thought of as a complete ********!
The first thing most pilots do on arrival at the crew room is to look to see who they are flying with. Not because of the logistics but because this determines what sort of day you will have.
Ladies and gentlemen your thoughts please, who spoils your day and why?
I have never quite understood CRM as it is presented by our company. This is mainly because it never addresses the problems. The main offenders still continue to be Dickheads and attract the same old comments. The interesting thing is that eveybody always agrees with everyone else's observations!
I should add that it dosnt help that in our company the CRM lecturer is universally thought of as a complete ********!
The first thing most pilots do on arrival at the crew room is to look to see who they are flying with. Not because of the logistics but because this determines what sort of day you will have.
Ladies and gentlemen your thoughts please, who spoils your day and why?
Last edited by whatunion; 12th Jun 2004 at 08:52.
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What does a captain expect from an F/O?
Well I tell you what - its not this little exchange that happened when I was paired with an ex-F/E remustered as first officer and I was a contract captain to a foreign operator, the F/O being a Teutonic.
Self LH seat: "Before Start Checklist, thanks Jens"
F/O with big bushy beard drags out checklist and reads stuff.
We got to the part (it was a 737) which says Fuel. and the captain says 8000 kgs - pumps on.
Except when the F/O read out "Fuel" and I answered as above, he said in a loud voice "NEGATIVE." He then repeated the word "Fuel" - and I carefully checked the contents and repeated my earlier correct response. Again a scowl from the bearded one and again he spat out "NEGATIVE"
At that stage I had had enough of this crap and said "Put the checklist down and now what's your problem?"
The reply was that although 8000 kgs was indeed the sum of the total fuel in the two mains, the flight plan indicated that it was based upon 8300 kgs and the bearded one stated that SOP required that the flight plan fuel must agree with the actual fuel aboard and that because the CVR was listening to us, we should lie a little and say "8300 kgs".
Unfortunately it set the scene for the next few hours together which was the bearded ex F/E picking me up on practically everything I touched or said. It was not a relaxing trip.
So, what do I want from a first officer?
Simple. A smile - a touch of good humour - commonsense, and someone I can rely on when the chips are down.
Well I tell you what - its not this little exchange that happened when I was paired with an ex-F/E remustered as first officer and I was a contract captain to a foreign operator, the F/O being a Teutonic.
Self LH seat: "Before Start Checklist, thanks Jens"
F/O with big bushy beard drags out checklist and reads stuff.
We got to the part (it was a 737) which says Fuel. and the captain says 8000 kgs - pumps on.
Except when the F/O read out "Fuel" and I answered as above, he said in a loud voice "NEGATIVE." He then repeated the word "Fuel" - and I carefully checked the contents and repeated my earlier correct response. Again a scowl from the bearded one and again he spat out "NEGATIVE"
At that stage I had had enough of this crap and said "Put the checklist down and now what's your problem?"
The reply was that although 8000 kgs was indeed the sum of the total fuel in the two mains, the flight plan indicated that it was based upon 8300 kgs and the bearded one stated that SOP required that the flight plan fuel must agree with the actual fuel aboard and that because the CVR was listening to us, we should lie a little and say "8300 kgs".
Unfortunately it set the scene for the next few hours together which was the bearded ex F/E picking me up on practically everything I touched or said. It was not a relaxing trip.
So, what do I want from a first officer?
Simple. A smile - a touch of good humour - commonsense, and someone I can rely on when the chips are down.
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Hudson, a great example of someone who shouldnt be on a flight deck(not you, the FO!)
So what you also want is someone who is not pedantic to the degree of being ridiculous. There is a line isnt there? What a pity that some of the good guys arnt able to get on the side of the line that dosnt piss most people off. Shouldnt a CRM course give guidance with this 'Line'
Do you recognise the guy who argues about the stab trim position. "I think you have set 24 there and it should be 25!"
If two crew operation is about teamwork why are there so many of these people around that think their's is the only way?
So what you also want is someone who is not pedantic to the degree of being ridiculous. There is a line isnt there? What a pity that some of the good guys arnt able to get on the side of the line that dosnt piss most people off. Shouldnt a CRM course give guidance with this 'Line'
Do you recognise the guy who argues about the stab trim position. "I think you have set 24 there and it should be 25!"
If two crew operation is about teamwork why are there so many of these people around that think their's is the only way?
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This is always going to a subject that has no definitive answer. You are dealing with human characteristics which as we all know are many and varied. CRM is partly a tool to facilitate better integration of those different characteristics into a safer aircraft operating environment.
One of the points that CRM addresses is that you should be introspective. It is all very well saying "everyone thinks of so & so as a dick****", but in reality that is not always true. the subject is unlikely to think of themselves that way. Their family probably doesn't. The training department probably doesn't, and so on. It is often comforting ( if not always true) to place yourself in the majority, ie "we all think so & so is a pain". The reality is that for 10 different Captains you probably need to approach them in 10 different ways. That is not always easy and in any event will only come with experience.
Speaking from my own experience, the F/O's I have flown with who I liked flying with the most had the following attributes:
1) They knew there stuff. They were well versed in the company SOPA's and the application of them.
2) They interacted well. By that I mean they would discuss items of ambiguity such as when to stop and for what on a take off roll. They didn't simply narrate.
3) They made an effort to be one step ahead of the aircraft at all times. As a radio or navaid become redundant it would be set up to the next channel or whatever, rather than left until the time it was next actually needed.
4) They communicated well. This encompassed a whole range of things, including conversation on social topics, background, family, hobbies, likes & dislikes. All of this sort of interaction helps you get an idea of how that person thinks and lives. An appreciation of such things can be very valuable in the individuals CRM armoury.
5) General awareness to a high degree. As flying pilot they always gave the impression of being fully in control of the aircraft. They rarely missed radio calls. Knew who else was around them. If an item was missed or incorrectly set, they could ( often subtly) point it out or correct it as appropriate.
6) Performed their job well. An F/O's job is a demanding one. In many respects it is much harder than the Captains. It often requires a higher level of recall, tact and diplomacy. It requires the ability to vary the operation to suit the Captain on many occaisions ( SOPA's never eliminate this entirely).
7) Personality. A good sense of humour whilst not mandatory is a very important factor. The ability to keep stress levels down, to accept critisism and advice when it might not always be delivered with reciprocal tact and understanding. The ability to learn quickly and not be afraid to question or ask questions as appropiate.
When all of these things come together in the right combination it makes the Captains job easy and invariably a pleasure to go to work. In my opinion the best F/O's are those who make me feel like my job is the easiest in the world. They give every impression of trying and being fully aware of their situation. They are the people you feel you can fully rely on at all times , not only in flight but on the ground as well. In summary they are Captains without the portfolio.
On the other side of the coin the things that cause me the most stress and annoyance, and soul searching as a result are listed under the same headings:
1) People whose knowledge of the SOPA's and sytems is little more than adequate. Getting charts out might be a chore but they should be at hand and not just produced when requested.
2) People who fail to tell you when they are about to operate some item that ought to be subject to confirmation in the ordinary course of events. This may include turning on or off anti-ice sytems or crossfeeding fuel or a host of other things.
3) Lack of proper monitoring. I have seen many pilots who as PF think that the moment the aircraft has levelled out is their cue to start reading the paper. There may be plenty of opportunity for such things but Never when the aircraft is climbing/ descending or reaching a waypoint. It is surprising how many people do. It is also better airmanship in my opinion to ask yourself "what could I be doing now ?" Run a check, set up the landing aids, do a P.A etc. Only when the answer is "nothing" should that general level of awareness be allowed to relax. It might be rarely commented on, but it is often noticed and appreciated by the pilot in the other seat.
4) People who talk at an inaudible volume. Not everybody is aware they do this, and Captains are some of the worst culprits. Like most things as you get older, hearing ability diminshes. There is nothing worse than having to lean across the flight deck in a vain attempt to hear the other Pilot. Actually there is, and that is having to ask for a repetition for the fourth time ! Even the best flight decks tend to be noisy places and speaking clearly and with reasonable volume is much appreciated.
5) Don't assume the autopilot and or FMC are doing what you think they are. Monitor them carefully. I had one chap who felt that the descent would be a good time to show one of the cabin crew his cartoon drawing abilities. This left me doing my job and his whilst also attempting not to bite off the end of my tongue ! That lasted for one whole minute! If you are going to do the job then do it well, or at least give the impression that you are trying to do so. Remember that the captain is not infallible (God knows!!) so monitor what they are doing as well.
6) It is fairly irritating to feel that you are carrying someone who won't pull their weight. make an effort to turn up on time such that the pre-flight paperwork can be completed without having to then rush. If you are one those (thankfully rare) individuals who feels the need to turn up at the last possible reporting time, it probably means the captain will have done the paperwork that was otherwise assigned to you. Without wanting to get into a discussion on the relative merits of various companies FTL reporting times, it is going to do nothing to endear you to a Captain who notices that he is regularly doing your work for you.
7) You are never going to be compatible with everybody and the reverse is also true. It is the nature of the beast that the Captain usually carries the can for anything that goes seriously wrong. They will probably have experienced many occaisions when something has happened that wasn't picked up either by themselves or by the other pilot that subsequently laid them open to criticism from on high. As a result they may often seem overly pedantic on issues that raely bother other Captains. These sort of things and the general variety of personalities can often make interaction more difficult than perhaps it ought to be. Don't allow it to become unduly stressful. Be as professional as you can be and endeavour to be pleased by your own performance even if you know acknowledgement won't always be forthcoming.
In summary, I enjoy flying with people who have clearly made an effort to know their subject. People who are communicative. They are flexible and clearly absorb information and knowledge about the aircraft and the Captains they will be flying with. They give every impression of being commanders in their own right but also are people that you can rely on in flight and down route. People who are clearly diplomatic and tactful but also won't allow you to make a serious ommision or error without themselves being readilly aware and where necessary ready to correct it. There are many First officers who fit this mould perfectly and although much of it is aquired by experience, the potential is often very obvious at an early stage.
Sorry to go on at length but I hope this helps provide one of many answers to your question.
One of the points that CRM addresses is that you should be introspective. It is all very well saying "everyone thinks of so & so as a dick****", but in reality that is not always true. the subject is unlikely to think of themselves that way. Their family probably doesn't. The training department probably doesn't, and so on. It is often comforting ( if not always true) to place yourself in the majority, ie "we all think so & so is a pain". The reality is that for 10 different Captains you probably need to approach them in 10 different ways. That is not always easy and in any event will only come with experience.
Speaking from my own experience, the F/O's I have flown with who I liked flying with the most had the following attributes:
1) They knew there stuff. They were well versed in the company SOPA's and the application of them.
2) They interacted well. By that I mean they would discuss items of ambiguity such as when to stop and for what on a take off roll. They didn't simply narrate.
3) They made an effort to be one step ahead of the aircraft at all times. As a radio or navaid become redundant it would be set up to the next channel or whatever, rather than left until the time it was next actually needed.
4) They communicated well. This encompassed a whole range of things, including conversation on social topics, background, family, hobbies, likes & dislikes. All of this sort of interaction helps you get an idea of how that person thinks and lives. An appreciation of such things can be very valuable in the individuals CRM armoury.
5) General awareness to a high degree. As flying pilot they always gave the impression of being fully in control of the aircraft. They rarely missed radio calls. Knew who else was around them. If an item was missed or incorrectly set, they could ( often subtly) point it out or correct it as appropriate.
6) Performed their job well. An F/O's job is a demanding one. In many respects it is much harder than the Captains. It often requires a higher level of recall, tact and diplomacy. It requires the ability to vary the operation to suit the Captain on many occaisions ( SOPA's never eliminate this entirely).
7) Personality. A good sense of humour whilst not mandatory is a very important factor. The ability to keep stress levels down, to accept critisism and advice when it might not always be delivered with reciprocal tact and understanding. The ability to learn quickly and not be afraid to question or ask questions as appropiate.
When all of these things come together in the right combination it makes the Captains job easy and invariably a pleasure to go to work. In my opinion the best F/O's are those who make me feel like my job is the easiest in the world. They give every impression of trying and being fully aware of their situation. They are the people you feel you can fully rely on at all times , not only in flight but on the ground as well. In summary they are Captains without the portfolio.
On the other side of the coin the things that cause me the most stress and annoyance, and soul searching as a result are listed under the same headings:
1) People whose knowledge of the SOPA's and sytems is little more than adequate. Getting charts out might be a chore but they should be at hand and not just produced when requested.
2) People who fail to tell you when they are about to operate some item that ought to be subject to confirmation in the ordinary course of events. This may include turning on or off anti-ice sytems or crossfeeding fuel or a host of other things.
3) Lack of proper monitoring. I have seen many pilots who as PF think that the moment the aircraft has levelled out is their cue to start reading the paper. There may be plenty of opportunity for such things but Never when the aircraft is climbing/ descending or reaching a waypoint. It is surprising how many people do. It is also better airmanship in my opinion to ask yourself "what could I be doing now ?" Run a check, set up the landing aids, do a P.A etc. Only when the answer is "nothing" should that general level of awareness be allowed to relax. It might be rarely commented on, but it is often noticed and appreciated by the pilot in the other seat.
4) People who talk at an inaudible volume. Not everybody is aware they do this, and Captains are some of the worst culprits. Like most things as you get older, hearing ability diminshes. There is nothing worse than having to lean across the flight deck in a vain attempt to hear the other Pilot. Actually there is, and that is having to ask for a repetition for the fourth time ! Even the best flight decks tend to be noisy places and speaking clearly and with reasonable volume is much appreciated.
5) Don't assume the autopilot and or FMC are doing what you think they are. Monitor them carefully. I had one chap who felt that the descent would be a good time to show one of the cabin crew his cartoon drawing abilities. This left me doing my job and his whilst also attempting not to bite off the end of my tongue ! That lasted for one whole minute! If you are going to do the job then do it well, or at least give the impression that you are trying to do so. Remember that the captain is not infallible (God knows!!) so monitor what they are doing as well.
6) It is fairly irritating to feel that you are carrying someone who won't pull their weight. make an effort to turn up on time such that the pre-flight paperwork can be completed without having to then rush. If you are one those (thankfully rare) individuals who feels the need to turn up at the last possible reporting time, it probably means the captain will have done the paperwork that was otherwise assigned to you. Without wanting to get into a discussion on the relative merits of various companies FTL reporting times, it is going to do nothing to endear you to a Captain who notices that he is regularly doing your work for you.
7) You are never going to be compatible with everybody and the reverse is also true. It is the nature of the beast that the Captain usually carries the can for anything that goes seriously wrong. They will probably have experienced many occaisions when something has happened that wasn't picked up either by themselves or by the other pilot that subsequently laid them open to criticism from on high. As a result they may often seem overly pedantic on issues that raely bother other Captains. These sort of things and the general variety of personalities can often make interaction more difficult than perhaps it ought to be. Don't allow it to become unduly stressful. Be as professional as you can be and endeavour to be pleased by your own performance even if you know acknowledgement won't always be forthcoming.
In summary, I enjoy flying with people who have clearly made an effort to know their subject. People who are communicative. They are flexible and clearly absorb information and knowledge about the aircraft and the Captains they will be flying with. They give every impression of being commanders in their own right but also are people that you can rely on in flight and down route. People who are clearly diplomatic and tactful but also won't allow you to make a serious ommision or error without themselves being readilly aware and where necessary ready to correct it. There are many First officers who fit this mould perfectly and although much of it is aquired by experience, the potential is often very obvious at an early stage.
Sorry to go on at length but I hope this helps provide one of many answers to your question.
Last edited by Bealzebub; 12th Jun 2004 at 17:22.
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But from either seat point of view don't you just hate it when the other pilot:
Puts his fingers on the MCP selections waiting, waiting, waiting, in eager anticipation of either an ATC instruction, or second guessing what you are going to ask him to do.
Ditto placing hand ever so casually on the flap or gear lever ready ready ready to instantly select same as the first syllable leaves your lips.
Ditto "hovering" over the controls when you are landing/taking off with fingers just touching the wheel and you can feel his feet on the rudder pedals.
Spouting unwanted "advice" on final approach with nervous words of encouragement.
Superfluous read-backs of ATC instructions. Long winded blah blah PA's that make you cringe with embarrassment.
Puts his fingers on the MCP selections waiting, waiting, waiting, in eager anticipation of either an ATC instruction, or second guessing what you are going to ask him to do.
Ditto placing hand ever so casually on the flap or gear lever ready ready ready to instantly select same as the first syllable leaves your lips.
Ditto "hovering" over the controls when you are landing/taking off with fingers just touching the wheel and you can feel his feet on the rudder pedals.
Spouting unwanted "advice" on final approach with nervous words of encouragement.
Superfluous read-backs of ATC instructions. Long winded blah blah PA's that make you cringe with embarrassment.
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thank you bbub and hudson,
bbub your lengthy post is excellent and i feel i have for the first time in my aviation career received a crm course! more please.
this is the sort of material that should be used on crm courses. i have no interest in finding out which side of my brain does what but i am interested to find out what irritates others on the flight deck. for example has anyone ever heard of anyone discussing the reading of papers on a flight deck. we all do it but as bbub says there is a time and a place. i must relate an incident told to me by a rather mavrick fo for a well known holiday airline!
the fo was reading the newspapers in the cruise when the captain said to him, i dont think anything should be read on this flightdeck which does not pertain to the safety of the operation.
the fo replied, " you wont want to read my paper then, will you ?"
both of your posts should be standard talk on crm courses, so why arnt they? surely we all know what you have just written is commonplace.
could be that crm, as in our company is presented by someone who has no experience of airline flight deck operation.
bbub your lengthy post is excellent and i feel i have for the first time in my aviation career received a crm course! more please.
this is the sort of material that should be used on crm courses. i have no interest in finding out which side of my brain does what but i am interested to find out what irritates others on the flight deck. for example has anyone ever heard of anyone discussing the reading of papers on a flight deck. we all do it but as bbub says there is a time and a place. i must relate an incident told to me by a rather mavrick fo for a well known holiday airline!
the fo was reading the newspapers in the cruise when the captain said to him, i dont think anything should be read on this flightdeck which does not pertain to the safety of the operation.
the fo replied, " you wont want to read my paper then, will you ?"
both of your posts should be standard talk on crm courses, so why arnt they? surely we all know what you have just written is commonplace.
could be that crm, as in our company is presented by someone who has no experience of airline flight deck operation.
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Bealzebub said it all or almost all - what a post !
I expect my F/Os to assume the role of deputy commander at all times, and to be respected as such. My own respect for a F/O is in direct proportion to the degree to which he or she accepts their role as deputy, situation and circumstance may propel him / her into the command role without notice.
I expect that my F/Os will be better captains than I am. If they are not, then I have failed to pass on the accumulated wisdom of my captains, plus a little of my own, to be added to the potential talent within each F/O.
I expect my F/Os to assume the role of deputy commander at all times, and to be respected as such. My own respect for a F/O is in direct proportion to the degree to which he or she accepts their role as deputy, situation and circumstance may propel him / her into the command role without notice.
I expect that my F/Os will be better captains than I am. If they are not, then I have failed to pass on the accumulated wisdom of my captains, plus a little of my own, to be added to the potential talent within each F/O.
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Where's 411A?
I just got back from two months off working and this caught my eye. All the responses so far seem disappointingly sane!
I am lucky to fly with guys who generally give me what I want, which is some sort of reasonable adherence not just to SOPs but also to common sense.
And, on the other hand, there is the odd lost soul who feels the way forward is by blind and unreasoning adherence to even contradictory procedures dredged up from the back of the book coupled with a great reluctance to do anything we haven't been instructed to by the Chief Pilot. That is to say, if He is unreachable, we should sit around, with our load of fuming pax, and wait, and wait... being stuck with one of these chaps can make for a very long day!
Plus which, human nature being what it is, they can prove to be a sure stimulus for inducing some bone-head mistakes on my part every so often, such as mishearing a clearance to backtrack rather than hold short, when they will just sit and watch the situation unravel, as if it proves a point. Well, yes, but perhaps not the one they have in mind....
I am lucky to fly with guys who generally give me what I want, which is some sort of reasonable adherence not just to SOPs but also to common sense.
And, on the other hand, there is the odd lost soul who feels the way forward is by blind and unreasoning adherence to even contradictory procedures dredged up from the back of the book coupled with a great reluctance to do anything we haven't been instructed to by the Chief Pilot. That is to say, if He is unreachable, we should sit around, with our load of fuming pax, and wait, and wait... being stuck with one of these chaps can make for a very long day!
Plus which, human nature being what it is, they can prove to be a sure stimulus for inducing some bone-head mistakes on my part every so often, such as mishearing a clearance to backtrack rather than hold short, when they will just sit and watch the situation unravel, as if it proves a point. Well, yes, but perhaps not the one they have in mind....
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Thanks, too, to BeazleBub:
Not long winded at all, I'd call it a concise guide! Do you mind if I keep a copy of it? It's amazing how many times downline, in the bar, etc that fellow pilots talk about the other crew members' sense of humour and diplomacy in the cockpit. There's few things worse than a Check FO. They are two things would should be touched on in a CRM course. I'll bet that in most cases of the pain-in-the-neck RHS pilot picking you up on every tiny departure from SOP's ("ten-thirteen" instead of "one zero one three") he/she has entirely missed the point of CRM. Some take it not as a licence to question the boss when there is potential for a safety breach, but rather a requirement to check that the captain is adhering exactly to SOP's at all times.
Drag.
Sorry, I mean "BealzeBub"
Drag.
Not long winded at all, I'd call it a concise guide! Do you mind if I keep a copy of it? It's amazing how many times downline, in the bar, etc that fellow pilots talk about the other crew members' sense of humour and diplomacy in the cockpit. There's few things worse than a Check FO. They are two things would should be touched on in a CRM course. I'll bet that in most cases of the pain-in-the-neck RHS pilot picking you up on every tiny departure from SOP's ("ten-thirteen" instead of "one zero one three") he/she has entirely missed the point of CRM. Some take it not as a licence to question the boss when there is potential for a safety breach, but rather a requirement to check that the captain is adhering exactly to SOP's at all times.
Drag.
Sorry, I mean "BealzeBub"
Drag.
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Thanks
Hi guys...
I have a interview coming up with a European low cost airline, with which I understand there are lots of different nationalities making up the flight deck structure. They are very very keen on there FO’s having a good understanding of CRM issues. I’d just like to thank you all for opening my eyes on what to expect and ensure I become as sensitive thoughtful and professional on the flight deck as I can be, to ensure a safe, professional, comfortable enviroment.
I have a interview coming up with a European low cost airline, with which I understand there are lots of different nationalities making up the flight deck structure. They are very very keen on there FO’s having a good understanding of CRM issues. I’d just like to thank you all for opening my eyes on what to expect and ensure I become as sensitive thoughtful and professional on the flight deck as I can be, to ensure a safe, professional, comfortable enviroment.
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I expect my FO to be professional, safe, co-operative, (not subversive) and be able to operate the aeroplane (733) on his own if I keel over. I hope that he is the same as me in that he loves his job and enjoys going to work. I also hope that he aspires to command (although I realise that sometimes that is not always the overriding priority to the person concerned) and if he does I consider it my duty to help him as much as I can toward that goal. Next question........?
re previous post, I used the wrong word. For subversive insert subservient. Sorry chaps. (Oops)
re previous post, I used the wrong word. For subversive insert subservient. Sorry chaps. (Oops)
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Bealzebub,
That is the best post I have ever seen on Pprune.
It made great reading even though I'm just a mere piece of SLF (at the moment) albeit with a bit more of an idea about whats going on up front than most.
Thanks once again.
That is the best post I have ever seen on Pprune.
It made great reading even though I'm just a mere piece of SLF (at the moment) albeit with a bit more of an idea about whats going on up front than most.
Thanks once again.
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A Captain should have the right to a fully trained competent First Officer who is more thn capable of taking over the aircraft should he be required to.
All the captains I fly with have the added benefit of flying with a First Officer who in many cases is far more experienced than them and can point them in the right direction when required.
This stems from my Military training and extensive Military experience. The problem we have nowdays is that we have people occupying the LHS of large passenger jets who have nothing but a sketchy self improver background or worse are ex cadets.
Thankfully my ex RAF collegues and myself are around to address the balance and provide the expertise should it be lacking in the LHS.
LF
All the captains I fly with have the added benefit of flying with a First Officer who in many cases is far more experienced than them and can point them in the right direction when required.
This stems from my Military training and extensive Military experience. The problem we have nowdays is that we have people occupying the LHS of large passenger jets who have nothing but a sketchy self improver background or worse are ex cadets.
Thankfully my ex RAF collegues and myself are around to address the balance and provide the expertise should it be lacking in the LHS.
LF
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Has Lord Flashhart ever done a CRM course - now there's wishful thinking...
And there was me thinking that even military chaps aren't born with flying experience, but apparantly they are now. God only knows what he'll say if he goes back to the RAF to find a second-tourist with a command on a VC10 or similar...
Furthermore is a person with such a pseudonym not more interested in chasing young ladies than hanging out in cyberspace?
I digress - back to topic.
And there was me thinking that even military chaps aren't born with flying experience, but apparantly they are now. God only knows what he'll say if he goes back to the RAF to find a second-tourist with a command on a VC10 or similar...
Furthermore is a person with such a pseudonym not more interested in chasing young ladies than hanging out in cyberspace?
I digress - back to topic.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Canada
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Flashhart,
Come back to reality boy. What you dont understand is that we do things differently in our world. Now I'm not knocking the way things are done in air forces around the world. It must be a tough thing to be called upon by our illustrious leaders to do what is unheard of. Hats off to the boys who step up to the line, but you cannot knock what many years of civil aviation has accomplished either.
While it is true in our world that we like to have a shallow gradient from the left to the right seat, it is none the less a gradient. (do you know what gradient is?) The captain is the captain. It is true that some f/os have more experience than the capt, but that does not mean the capt is incompetent.
Now as for your attitude. If I come across an individual like you, which by the way has happened once or twice, you can be sure that the cockpit gradient will get much steeper. Try to guess which way it will go.
Believe me boy, you will not go far unless you adjust. It won't be obvious but you will find yourself in the right seat for a very long time and you won't know why.
Cool it!
Crazy
Come back to reality boy. What you dont understand is that we do things differently in our world. Now I'm not knocking the way things are done in air forces around the world. It must be a tough thing to be called upon by our illustrious leaders to do what is unheard of. Hats off to the boys who step up to the line, but you cannot knock what many years of civil aviation has accomplished either.
While it is true in our world that we like to have a shallow gradient from the left to the right seat, it is none the less a gradient. (do you know what gradient is?) The captain is the captain. It is true that some f/os have more experience than the capt, but that does not mean the capt is incompetent.
Now as for your attitude. If I come across an individual like you, which by the way has happened once or twice, you can be sure that the cockpit gradient will get much steeper. Try to guess which way it will go.
Believe me boy, you will not go far unless you adjust. It won't be obvious but you will find yourself in the right seat for a very long time and you won't know why.
Cool it!
Crazy
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London
Age: 59
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To those giving Flashart a hard time (rightly or wrongly) please read Bealzebubs post again and think how he would have answered it.
Flashart please read afformentioned post on page 1
BZB has shown us the way with probably ....no! Definetly the best post i have ever read on PPRUNE, worth adding to my favourites and reading every now and then.
As a new FO i fly with many characters and as many have said you have to be a diplomat as well as everything else to a captain.
I fly with one skipper who is younger than me but he lets me make the decisions and only intervenes if i have made a bad one.
When i ask him what should i do or whats the best course of action etc etc he always says "well what do you think or yep i'm happy with that" or even have you thought of doing it this way and guess what he's a pleasure to fly with because he's actually training me to be a captain.
And on the other had there are captains who you would rather cut of you tommy tinkler that fly with beacuse they think they're God or that they are never wrong and cant take you pointing out the error they've just made.
Bealzebub will you be my dad and if not can i fly with you some time?
To those giving Flashart a hard time (rightly or wrongly) please read Bealzebubs post again and think how he would have answered it.
Flashart please read afformentioned post on page 1
BZB has shown us the way with probably ....no! Definetly the best post i have ever read on PPRUNE, worth adding to my favourites and reading every now and then.
As a new FO i fly with many characters and as many have said you have to be a diplomat as well as everything else to a captain.
I fly with one skipper who is younger than me but he lets me make the decisions and only intervenes if i have made a bad one.
When i ask him what should i do or whats the best course of action etc etc he always says "well what do you think or yep i\'m happy with that" or even have you thought of doing it this way and guess what he\'s a pleasure to fly with because he\'s actually training me to be a captain.
And on the other had there are captains who you would rather cut of you tommy tinkler that fly with beacuse they think they\'re God or that they are never wrong and cant take you pointing out the error they\'ve just made.
Bealzebub will you be my dad and if not can i fly with you some time?
Flashart please read afformentioned post on page 1
BZB has shown us the way with probably ....no! Definetly the best post i have ever read on PPRUNE, worth adding to my favourites and reading every now and then.
As a new FO i fly with many characters and as many have said you have to be a diplomat as well as everything else to a captain.
I fly with one skipper who is younger than me but he lets me make the decisions and only intervenes if i have made a bad one.
When i ask him what should i do or whats the best course of action etc etc he always says "well what do you think or yep i'm happy with that" or even have you thought of doing it this way and guess what he's a pleasure to fly with because he's actually training me to be a captain.
And on the other had there are captains who you would rather cut of you tommy tinkler that fly with beacuse they think they're God or that they are never wrong and cant take you pointing out the error they've just made.
Bealzebub will you be my dad and if not can i fly with you some time?
To those giving Flashart a hard time (rightly or wrongly) please read Bealzebubs post again and think how he would have answered it.
Flashart please read afformentioned post on page 1
BZB has shown us the way with probably ....no! Definetly the best post i have ever read on PPRUNE, worth adding to my favourites and reading every now and then.
As a new FO i fly with many characters and as many have said you have to be a diplomat as well as everything else to a captain.
I fly with one skipper who is younger than me but he lets me make the decisions and only intervenes if i have made a bad one.
When i ask him what should i do or whats the best course of action etc etc he always says "well what do you think or yep i\'m happy with that" or even have you thought of doing it this way and guess what he\'s a pleasure to fly with because he\'s actually training me to be a captain.
And on the other had there are captains who you would rather cut of you tommy tinkler that fly with beacuse they think they\'re God or that they are never wrong and cant take you pointing out the error they\'ve just made.
Bealzebub will you be my dad and if not can i fly with you some time?