The entire Target Level of Safety for aviation is set to be as close to 10^-9 (ten to the minus 9) probability of something causing death as you can get.

It has now been shown in several cases that the current locked door policy as implemented by some airlines allowing one pilot to lock themselves into the flight deck - does not meet the Target Level of Safety for aviation. You might think it is excellent but the flaws mean that it needs to be changed. It can be changed by a simple procedure of using a flight crew member to be a second person in the cockpit.

This procedure is likely to be mandatory within the next few weeks. After all he might have decided to fly into something more than just a mountain. And thus your procedures would have actually permitted a 9/11 scenario that the doors were put there to prevent. :D

It seems I might have been on the money when I asked about pilots seeing doctors secretly a few hundred posts ago http://www.pprune.org/8919671-post1537.html This practice is almost impossible to stop. Mandatory reporting won't prevent a pilot from seeing a doctor privately, perhaps in another country, and pretending to be a bus driver. Perhaps this tragedy will lead to calls for frequent blood testing to detect prescription drugs?

Given the pressure that pilots are under I would be amazed if there are not a great many who systematically deceive their employer about their health. It sounds like the job is becoming impossibly demanding, with the rewards disappearing through the floor. You guys and gals have my sympathy.

The industry seriously needs to start thinking about cockpit design for the future. If safety is of greater importance than cramming in 6 extra bums on seats then why can't staff members have their own toilet in a plane that has a variant able to carry 220 passengers? By making a flight deck just 45 inches longer and including a toilet in some kind of intermediate section so the pilots never have to "leave" the flight deck, will ensure there is no repeat of this kind of incident and will also prevent a would be terrorist from making a charge for any cockpit door when he sees a pilot come out.

If you think this is ridiculous ask yourself how you would feel as a professional office worker having to share bathroom facilities with over 100 passengers 4-5 times per day. It's a working environment for god sake, time to make it look and feel like one!

Investigators into Alps crash find killer co-pilot Andreas Lubitz had 'hidden illness' from airline bosses

He had suffered from depression and 'burnout' and was once deemed 'unfliable' but was later passed as fit to fly

Head of Lufthansa admitted the 28-year-old had slipped through the 'safety net' - with devastating consequences

Friends said he was teased and called 'Tomato Andy' because he worked as a flight steward before qualifying

Police said they have found evidence of mental illness, but no suicide note at flat he is said to share with girlfriend

Germanwings pilot Andreas Lubitz tore up sick note for day he crashed jet | Daily Mail Online

Apologies in advance
 

Could the "illness" Lubitz suffered from possibly be physical in nature?
Was he pre-empting an inevitable prognosis?
Nothing is more depressing than an incurable disease.

I think it's not clear what happened. The driver doesn't appear to have had any history of mental illness or reasons to be suicidal.

No, but safety measures were considerably improved as a result of it, making a recurrence less likely. (Sensible measures, not kneejerk reactions of doubtful utility).

CVR tape
 

Whether it is a valid recording or not, the publishing of a CVR recording on the internet highlights the despicable and sick nature of our modern media hungry society. :sad:

Hi Ian WWe have a number of instances of the "door" locking out pilots. Some technical hitches, one FO locked out a Capt legitimately, 2 FOs the opposite (this one, Ethiopian), 1 Capt the opposite (LAM) - I am sure others.

Prior new doors, there seems a history of suicide accidents as well?

So I do not think the system excellent, but nor can I see the benefit of adding the additional crew member as a "cure all".

Just to be clear, can you state what you see as the legal (OM) role and specified duties of that additional (cabin) crew member in the Flight Deck:

1. To override the (acting) Commander of the Aircraft if they judge their actions inappropriate?
2. Do they override the commander (or deputy) in matters of Flight Safety?
3. Does the Commander need to consult said (cabin) crew member if they wish to alter the Flight path iaw ATC?
4. If the buzzer goes, and the Capt deems the requested entry inappropriate, can the CC member override (phsyically? by authority?) the order of the Commander?
5. Will said CC member by trained, and authorised, in the use of the door system controls?

I do not see it as Black & White, I see arguments for both approaches. But I suspect it is being done, not for Flight Safety or Security, but as a PR stunt.

A possible solution?
 

I am a corporate Jet Captain and we do not have doors between the cockpit and cabin but may have a solution which could work?
I am not familiar with the A320 doors so guidance please?

A master key hung around the neck of the exiting crew member which would override any blocking attempt by the remaining crew member in the cockpit would work with a proviso.
That key would only work with the addition of a memory code known by the two crew members so useless to a terrorist grabbing it off the neck of that crew member without the code.
A bit like a credit Card only giving you cash with a pin number.

I do not think allowing a cabin crew member into the cockpit has really been thought out and is a knee jerk reaction.

It is fairly easy with a clean record to get a job as cabin staff and with a short period of training.
Is this latest action not just opening up another avenue for terrorists to get access to the cockpit but with only one soul up front?
A terrorist with radical views but a clean record could get a job as Cabin crew and now have access to the one remaining pilot who will probably be looking at the panel often. That potential Cabin crew terrorist also has least resistance and an ability to lock the other pilot out as things stand.

Also consider positioning flights with no PAX or Cabin crew but only flight crew what happens then? the aircraft is still potentially a lethal weapon

Has this really been thought out?

What I don't understand is what somebody else pointed out on here. If this guy was planning on crashing the plane then how could he have been so "fortunate" as to have found the time that the pilot needed the loo to do it. In a short flight then surely there's a chance that the pilot would have remained in his seat the entire time.

If this guy was suicidally depressed then what was he doing? Waiting for the perfect storm of being overcome with a wave of depression, being in charge of a plane and having the pilot need a wee all at the same time It seems like a lot of planning for someone who was obviously thinking irrationally - do you think the pilot gave him a bollocking for something just before he downed the plane?

Good point, and consider the H&S aspects. There is no passenger health screening. Poor hygiene could lead to norovirus. Imagine also if the toilet was occupied?

I suppose in the latter case, call the FA, get them to keep it clear and get FA
to call when free.

The real tragedy of this is not the reasons why this psycho did what he did, but he unilaterally decided to snuff out over 140 innocent lives along with him. For this, and being in a trusted position as Second In Command, that F/O has my complete and utter contempt with total absolute disgust.

Media Speculation to make headlines and sell copy!

Read this statement regarding depression

Mind's response to today's front pages on the Germanwings plane crash | Mind, the mental health charity - help for mental health problems

Perhaps it needs some responsible posting as well

Is software also written for self imolation?
 

=== Apols if this has been discussed and I haven't noticed ===

Is it known whether the co-pilot disengaged all auto systems and manually fly into the ground? On this a/c type, would it have been NECESSARY to do this?

If not, the software is pretty strange. It knows:

1. the descent rate setting
2. the airspeed indication
2. the position of the aircraft
3. the position of mountains
4. the height above the ground, QFE

The software knows that the prognosis is not good. Does it take no evasive action? Does it simply carry on regardless?

medical records and personal privacy
 

G.Green....Please remember the guy was I'll!!!
Surely, when one is employed in such a responsible position, someone's pschological medical records should be sent to employers as a matter of urgency? OK so you pilots are all special.. and made of 'the right stuff' but it doesn't mean you are immune to depression or breakdown.
I wonder how his doctor is feeling right now.

Aircraft does not take corrective actions in case of GPWS.

Actually, this is the perfect time and place.
The bit I am questioning is "..as any company would be required to."
I don't know how it goes in Belgium but, in the UK at least, Zero Hours contracts are a big political topic. And not just in Aviation, but many safety-critical jobs.

His doctor did nothing wrong. He gave him documentation for illness and medication. Thus telling him not to work and do something about it. Which the patient ignored, the document was found torn in his apartment. Also, giving data to a third part (employer) is actually illegal for a doctor.

Financial Times is quoting an ICAO report about pilots concealing depression:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0f074560-d...#axzz3VUkxUB2m

Time for thoughtless action
 

The Lufthansa CEO did say true words: no system in this world can prevent such an event. But people can't except, that there are borders to the possibilltiy to avoid desaster. So they cry for action, and rather except to make things worse.

"For once the US had a good idea on this kind of thing with the two in cockpit rule and one wonders why EASA didn’t pick it ..."

German BDL (union of airlines) want to do the same nonsense now. Up to now there is the rule, that nobody is allowed in the cockpit, if the commander leaves it. And now all the good reason for this rule is nothing worth anymore ?

You need about two years to become pilot. But you can become flight attendant in two weeks. Nothing easier for any terrorist than to become a FA. Whom will I trust more ? My FO, or any FA ? What a nonsense.

Furthermore it will be an invitation to all terrorists travelling as passenger. Whenever the bell calls the FA, they know it is time.

We all know, that a pilot can destroy the plane in seconds, even if the other pilot is sitting in his seat. What in the world could a FA do about it ?

And if something less dramatic happens, as a malfunctioning cockpitdoor ? The captain can't come back, but the FO could savely land the plane, if there wasn't this panicking FA in the cockpit.