SOPS; Totally agree. Not soap-boxing at all. Once airlines get back to rigid selection criteria and pay to train highly selected applicants, the psychologically challenged candidates won't even get past phase one of at lease a six phase selection procedure.Can't believe the trolls on this site who would have us give this deranged killer a cuddle and and tell his likes, "There there poor little darlings........overworked, underpaid, paying to fly too......................booo hooo!"
Families of those lost in this tragedy should sue Germanwings for appalling selection procedure.

Is there a culture of bullying at the airline? With his other apparent issues he might not have responded as constructively as you or I.

Hmm, known as one of the hardest selection procedures in the business. 1% pass rate. But, as all current selection procedures, they do not check for mental illness. They check psychological profiles of course, but those simply determine if someone fits into the job and company, not if he has a mental illness.

But then, i guess you are in favor of a three month interval psych eval for every current pilot as well.

Flight engineers back please
 

my theory is that gw9525, the 6 other cases... PLUS 9-11...would have never occurred had we kept the flight engineer position. the F/E sits sideways next to the cockpit door, has his hands free and can stop intruders quickly and control the position of the door. best example the FED Ex DC-10 attempt. There was an old FAR that required a F/E on any airplane above 80k (or something like it). DC-6,DC-7 connie, A300, early 737( at western and air france) all had f/e's. besides if new airlines insist in putting 600hr wonder kids in the right seat of a320's at least a 3 set of eyes will help improve safety..just ask any crew that flies long range with a relief pilot

Landflap - you do know mental illness can strike at any time to anyone for no reason, don't you? You are also aware that it is perfectly possible to perform perfectly whilst suffering and can go back to performing perfectly after a bout of mental ill health with appropriate treatment don't you?

I have been following this forum for a long time now, and I'm finding that I have to keep reminding myself that the forum is on aviation matters. If you read the last number of pages it would be easy to think that it was a medical or trade union forum.

Having said that I've read with interest all the suggestions for allowing emergency access to the FD. What if for example the roles were reversed and the driver intent on crashing had been removed from the FD. How then would you reverse all the procedures for getting access to the FD?
I'm not sure it will be possible to ensure that the crew member intent on causing harm is ALWAYS on the correct side of the locked door.

There does not appear to be any easy way to provide terrain protection without taking control away from the pilot (full automation). At the end of the day the aircraft has to land either at airport or otherwise.

A pilot would always have to retain the ability to disengage terrain protection for obvious reasons. In the future it is probably inevitable that machines will be able to fly safer than humans, but until that is possible we must rely on humans with all of their frailties.

Actually its along the right lines. I work in the access control business and we had this discussion over lunch today.

Bio-metric ID could be used in conjunction with a PIN to access the door. So like Pace said you have they key (your iris or fingerprint), and then a PIN. This PIN/Key arrangement is quite common in high security buildings. You would have to remove the ability to prevent valid "keyholders" from being denied access from inside the cockpit, which is currently the case.

In a duress situation the PIN would be changed slightly by the keyholder to trigger a "duress alarm" whereby access is still given. The "duress alarm" could then be used to trigger a distress signal, possibly a squark 7500, to allow a controller to see that someone has gained access to that cockpit under duress.

Certainly the knee-jerk reaction we are currently seeing could present more problems than it solves.

True.

The key pad access procedure is there in case of incapacitation, not normal access. Well at least at my company.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is bullying at almost every airline (almost every workplace). When does it qualify as a "culture"?

Crossing climb

I would go with your view as of his possible character as someone interspersed with moments of explosive anger and then deep depression perfectionists who cannot take criticism but in certain company have to restrain themselves from venting that anger and Criticism.

The clue was in the change of mood when the Captain started the briefing something triggered him.

When the Captain left the cockpit my guess is he started a descent dialling in 100 feet, closed his eyes into a meditative state and allowed the jet to descend to destruction on an unaltered heading. He would have been oblivious to everything and anybody. Maybe that would account for his steady breathing an acceptance and resignation to what he was doing.

Why does a child or young adult who hates school suddenly turn up at the school yard and shoot innocent children in the play ground? its hard to understand the mentality of someone like that

Can you forgive someone like that NO what he did was an attrocious evil act

But what if the pilot that left the fd can't remember the emergency code?

What if for legitimate reasons you do not want to allow access?

A person might be threatened to allow access to FD.

The GermanWings crash is a very strange scenario, although these events have happened before. Is there a sure fire solution, well at present I don't see one. Whatever scheme one could think of to prevent this from ever happening again can be defeated.

[quote]Bio-metric ID could be used in conjunction with a PIN to access the door.[\quote]

Not without defeating the entire rationale for the door being there, which is to give the flight deck crew the ultimate authority on who is allowed to enter.

The moment you allow any sort of bypass or override from the outside, you allow for the possibility of a hostage under threat of death being forced to open the door.

As others have mentioned the FDR seems to have vanished ?! I for one don't think it will change much in the "big picture" here but still surprising that it has not been recovered.

@the hawk

I think we have first to define bullying. Is that possible?

I'm guessing he was addressed as the German equivalent of a trolley dolly?

I tend to call it banter and we have lots of it where I work. Banter turns into bullying if one or two ring leading individuals take it upon themselves to constantly 'banter' someone.

Hi Pace... re:Before seeking a solution, we need to clearly define the problem?

With this crash what is the "problem" we are trying to solve? The ill FO on the Flight Deck, or the Captain being locked out of the Flight Deck as per design requirements?

illness
 

In the US, doctors cannot share personal health information (PHI) without consent.

However, in some circumstances, a patient can be involuntarily committed for treatment. It's an extreme step, usually warranted only when the patient is a danger to himself or others. Obviously, this would have a negative impact on the person's career.

There should be a middle ground. How would people feel if doctors were allowed to convey to the airline a pilot's fitness for duty without specifying the exact reason?

I'm not sure abhorent thought process brought on by thinking more of yourself than others is 'illness'
It may lead to more extreme thought/action but the root cause is lack of self-control or being able to impose self-restraint or limits
This is developed over years from a young age through guidance and imposed discipline
Learning to accept you most likely will not get all you want

Cancer is an illness but does not lead to mass homicide

Mental 'illness' needs catagorized differently since it can have severe consequences for the individual and society

What is difference between what this guy did and a suicide bomber?
Documentation, he could afford to be treated
The poor terrorist could not
But both results are the same
Both are obviously 'crazy' and have a disturbed/distorted thought process
ANYONE who kills dozens for ANY reason is not mentally healthy
Both are 'evil'
Why are people afraid to say this?