I think this whole 'quick to solve' and make public by the French authorities is deplorable. It is deplorable for a number of reasons. 1. The full facts cannot have been established in such a short time. 2. A full and proper investigation has not been completed so an industry has been left without recommendations. 3. Not everyone who suffers from depression (of which according to WHO there are 350 million worldwide) will go on to commit suicide so they have actually made it more difficult for such persons many who work in the airline industry to talk openly and seek help and 4. Their actions could unwittingly create copycat suicides.


UAV - I should point out to you that Ryanair and Aer Lingus actually had the two in a cockpit rule in operation for some years prior to this event. They are not seeking publicity with the media claiming to be putting measures in place today.

No stick shaker on Airbus A320.

Why the AP disconnects out of the overspeed warning and not while the warning sounds?

This case is a reminder that, with all the amazing technology that has developed within aviation over the last one hundred years or so, the most advanced, complex and, perhaps least understood "piece of essential kit" onboard is the human brain. I suspect many of us, in addition to aviation, share interests in typical bloke stuff like classic cars, pubs etc etc. But how many of us are comfortable talking about and sharing our emotional well being and mental health?
Perhaps pprune needs a new section to help open up discussion?

"Speaking as one who has dealt with families bereaved by suicide for over 23 years so, briefly ... There is no 'normal'. It is often the case that once a person has made the choice of suicide - they appear much happier and calmer. Families say, "Ten days ago, we thought he'd turned a corner as he was getting back to his usual cheerful self and then ..." I recall one man who visited his parents for the weekend, cleaned the house and mowed the lawn and then hung himself.

Suicide is outside our expectations and so 99.9% of people are not looking for it and do not see it coming. When they look back at the recent months? Then they can see the path leading to it but it was not visible before.

If this is suicide, could the person have been waiting a week (or more) for the correct opportunity? Yes."

From a medical/psychological perspective, this post above is spot on.

The leaked CVR is an obvious fake unless the Prosecutor was lying.

On the subject of an investigation releasing facts or evidence during or before a final report...

I do not see any reason that non controversial evidence should not be released. The idea that there are issues of privacy involved in the case of an air accident is ridiculous. Neither does it seem to be offensive to grieving relatives of friends, although some people may disagree. In my own experience more information is better than less when coping with grief.

Wild allegations and theories on the other hand are no help to anybody.

Sober lark, not bashing Ryan at all, but trying to get a point across, that if you feel that you cannot be honest with your employer about your health, state of mind because a company policy makes you feel you cannot, then that is a risk.

The Italian authorities in the incident I quoted pointed out the driver in question, kept in secret from employer the death of his child for fear of losing his job.

How is that correct? Is this man a monster also? Again coming back to a point that is you do not feel you can be open about your mental state of mind, you can lose the plot and awful events such as these can occur. Maybe not deliberate, but a lower performance that will lead to errors or unstable approaches as in Italy.

Two people on flt deck or not, with one blow you can knock someone out, locked door, no locked door, 2 people or not. If someone's state of mind has gone of kilter to that degree who knows what they will do, look at all the mass shootings in usa from mentally disjointed people with access to weapons. A mentally disjointed pilot has a weapon in the shape of a control column.

@ philipat...
 

LOL...

I suspect that idiotic web site got the news from the PI News site which is nothing but an extremist far, far right German group.

Philipat
 

And here we go. No-one wanted to say it but it has been alluded to before.
Now let us see where this goes.

The FO's pay was maybe triple the comparable US pay.

When left alone in the cockpit, his total hours were slightly more than one third the minimum needed for a US ATP rating.

Treating mental illness is not like setting a broken femur. As has been stated here over and over, the side effects of treatment can be worse than the disease.

Not everybody can be an airline pilot, no matter how much they want to be one.

And it can be dangerous when privacy concerns trump public safety.

For more thread creep! checked our loss of licence cover... Mental illness not covered, in basic terms, if you're on the edge, the company will try and send you to a "professional" to get a diagnosis, but you get max 3 months pay.. thats it.. Also checked previous LOL Insurance with Belgium carrier, its the same exclusion.. so if you're nuts, don't fly!
This event is not related with PTF, Zero Time, Blah Blah, its one guy, maybe or maybe not radicalised while in a vulnerable state of mind.. could happen in any walk of life, unfortunately it would "appear" this job give hime the opportunity to take his own life, along with the others on board, although we should really wait for the full facts before making a judgement, maybe some sensitivity required rather than soap boxing personal agendas

I think it has been posted that the FO started training in 2008. I also read he had only about 600 hours. Doesn't compute??

I've been following this thread for a couple of days, but I haven't yet seen this particular argument (individual bits collated from numerous sources including the French BFMTV Live Feed):

1. Andreas Lubitz was a very intense young man. One of his friends from years ago said that "he would have died if he had failed to become a pilot". He clearly set himself very important goals which could not be missed or changed.

2. He was a perfectionist. This and 1. above are well-known causative factors in depression.

3. His severe depression led to a lengthy period off work. Lufthansa of course knew about this depression: this in itself would have been very difficult for him to accept.

3. His colleagues mocked him for having been a flight attendant for a period.

4. He wanted very much to go long-haul but was not accepted.

5. High intensity short-haul, for someone with Lubitz's make up. would soon become tedious, stressful and unsatisfying (as it did for me, and others I know). He could at this stage be thinking: "I sacrificed all of those years and efforts for this?" (as I regret to say I did).

6. Criticism from training captains would have been very difficult for him. Much more than for an easy going FO.

7. Any or all of the above could have led him to see a lapse back into severe depression as a fate worse than death. See 1. again.

There is a possibility than very driven highly perfectionist young men are not the ideal candidates for this career. I have flown with FOs like this, and it's not much fun, and doesn't make for a good flight deck environment . They often have a rigid view of what is correct and what is not, and rarely relax, which is contagious.

Some airlines put sociability at the top of the list of desired qualities when hiring. I'm guessing here, but perhaps LH doesn't?

It does actually, check the available information again, something like months off during training, working as cabin crew before he was up for a flight deck job and so on. He started his type rating in 2013.

The AME has been consulted by the pilot, and gives him a sick note. His depression has returned. The airline will give him time off work to recover, and SHOULD NEVER LET HIM FLY AGAIN! So of course he will hide the news. Therefore,it is the duty of the AME, or his private physician, to inform the Company directly, as a matter of urgency.

But pilots who want to keep on flying, will avoid the medics altogether. Or find a medic who is too busy to notice. So who is going to be the whistleblower ?

It has to be his mates, his co-workers. Or his family. After this shocking event, perhaps friends and family would be willing to express concern to a doctor, any doctor, who should then have a legal duty to inform the airline.

Slats 11, who posted from Sidney at 13.22, has a good suggestion.

Is it possible, logistically, for an airline to schedule aircrew to work as a team on a REGULAR BASIS? A small group well acquainted with each other will soon spot when one of the team is not right.

Screening pilots is not that hard, however airlines HR and/or management current procedures may overlook something that the military do for some time prior to put a multi-million very lethal F-16/F-18/Mirage/Eurofighter/etc in the hands of someone.
There are not many stories of screwed up military pilots that crashed their warbird in the worst possible way. And at first glance most of those topgun military pilots seem a bit beyond of what you might consider ‘normal’.

Doctor
 

Why did the Doctor not advise LH ??? as I am sure he would have know he was a Pilot

How do you figure that? There is no way for a lufthansa cadet to start directly on longhaul, they all have to start on shorthaul for at least four years before they can move on to longhaul.

How could he? Doctor patient confidentiality laws play into that, telling anyone would have been a breach of law.

At present the A/C does not provide any form of protection when it comes to terrain, it merely provide warnings.

@Denti: I didn't figure it - it was mentioned by the French TV news feed. Maybe he didn't know about the 4 years (if this is the case) when he joined.