If the pilot can't remember the emergency code he can ask one of the Flight Attendants. They all have to know it.

It could be buried. Once the surface debris has been cleaned up, a sweep with metal detectors might locate it.

I think you misunderstand entirely, Landflap. The point is not to excuse what has happened, or the person who did it, but to learn from it. How many more Lubitzes are out there? How many more Lubitzes is the industry creating? And if you don't ask these uncomfortable questions, how can you prevent this happening again?

As we have all been told so many times in CRM, the holes in the cheese all have to line up for an accident to take place. In other words, there was more than one hole in the cheese here.

So what are the other holes are there, in this cheese?

... Did the selection process play a part? Was this self-selection, or was Lubitz the best of the bunch?
... What about these do-gooders, who say we should not stigmatise mental health (like that letter by psychacrists). Did they pressurise Lufthansa to keep Lubitz?
... Doctors who cannot even advise authorities, if they think they have a mass murderer on their hands. If a patient confesses to the doc that he is about to kill someone, is the doc really duty-bound to keep quiet? If so, something is very wrong.
... Authorities who knee-jerked into locked doors - and in their ignorance genuinely thought we would never have to leave the flightdeck during a 4-hour flight. (a locked door that is opened ten times in a flight, is not a locked door)
... Authorities who allowed companies to hit every flight duty limitation in the book - simultaneously - and did nothing about it.
... Authorities who ordered pilots to stand outside and guard the aircraft, until every passenger had boarded and the doors were closed (do you remember that nonsense...!!)
... Authorities who allowed companies to stop serving crew food, and then allowed security to confiscate any food the crew brought themselves (do you remember that nonsense). (probably does not pertain to Germanwings)

How many other holes in this particular cheese, can readers think of? And why did nobody discuss and close those holes, before this incident? What are we paying the aviation authorities to do, bar drink coffee and have a chat about the latest soap opera?

Mental Health
 

There are an awful lot of armchair pilots chucking in theories and a fair amount of nonsense here.


So as a professional pilot, let me tell you my experience of a mental health issue.


I had been flying around 12 years and suffered reactionary depression from a serious life event. I sought help from my GP and was signed off work and prescribed anti-depressants and sleeping tablets. In accordance with the established regulations I reported the matter to my employer and the UK CAA and received a temporary unfit letter. It took time to recover and I used every tool available, counselling, medication and so on. I was off medication and about to return to work for what I hoped would be a managed return when I was disciplined by my airline for absence. I was given a final warning despite my, and Balpa's best efforts. I struggled with the concept of returning to work in what would be a difficult set of circumstances and eventually relapsed into depression again. I had hoped I would have been treated with respect and dignity, I was not.


I was never given a golden ticket into a shiny cockpit. I worked my way their, the old way, PPL, CPL, FI, FO and so on and became a captain at my company and happily flew for them for 9 years without any incident or problem, I can't even remember being off with a cold.


I did recover, regained my class 1 medical and hunted for work. It's been 2 years now. I have never flown anything since. I have drifted from job to job and dream of flying almost every day but now accept it is unlikely ever to happen again. I miss it dreadfully and wish almost every day I had not told anyone, but I did and now I'm paying for it big time.


The whole industry needs a serious shake up in terms of viewing of mental health. Performance management by sending pilots to simulators and bashing the hell out of someone who has suffered from depression is not the way forward. If airlines keep treating crew like something on the bottom of their shoe things will never improve.


None of this of course condones what has happened, if indeed the final investigation proves this to be the case and at no point did I ever fancy killing anyone, although my feeling towards the HR manager weren't very nice at the time.....


Anyway, just my experience, from a former ATPL holder.....

It is only a matter of time until the FDR is recovered.
Question: Does the FDR record the state of the cockpit door switch?

IMHO, making 2 people to be present in cockpit rule will not really prevent situations like this as others have noted.

Can we have a system which recognizes that every thing is ok with the plane and still it is too close to terrain and automatically pulls up and maintains safe level flight?

In terms of numbers you are probably correct. OTOH is you compare the global size of the military pilot pool and civilian pool, you may find there is little difference.

After reading news accounts of the young man's past, it's possible that he never really wanted to be a pilot at all.

He had a high-achieving, financially successful German father with whom he still lived part-time and who was probably paying for the young man's apartment. The piano-teacher mother is barely mentioned - while the son was running half-marathons with his father.

Perhaps the son was always trying to meet his father's high standards. Maybe that's why he "burned out" during pilot training - he may have hated flying. He didn't really want to be a pilot, but knew that "Tomato Andy" the flight attendant, couldn't possibly meet his father's lofty expectations.

He was reportedly having relationship problems - going on holiday in Miami with a male acquaintance; then living with a girlfriend in the apartment.

Inside, this young man might have been a totally different person who hated the life he felt he had to live outwardly. Perhaps his final desperate act was to kill his public persona......

@Ranger1

It always seems that an affliction served on a third-party is generally considered from the point of view of what was meant, rather than what was felt. All the way from minds scrambling as to why the plane was descending so soon after take-off, to the final unfortunate moment of unbelievable realisation is where the true terror lies!

In every business I've dealt with, the CEO has a board of directors or some sort of executive committee looking over his/her shoulder. Get used to it.

In my line of work (engineering) everything I do is subject to peer/group review at a minimum. And there will be subsequent certification analysis and/or testing done to validate the adequacy of my work. People who think they are too good or too smart to be second guessed aren't suited for the job.

Why? That's why you have pilots?

Yes - when we have a pilotless aircraft, then things like EGPWS will have built in reactions. Until then they provide warnings, and the pilots take appropriate actions.

Please note, our Operations Manual permits us to ignore (E)GPWS warnings under certain circumstances. The technology maturity is not yet at a point where it can be relied on...

And that's exactly why people keep quiet about it.

Has nothing to do with spying. Not a concern, at least for the vast majority.

The 'industry' did not create this guy
Utter nonsense
This guy created this guy

Blaming everything but this guy
The industry
The pay
The security system
The process
Etc

This guy is solely responsible for this
Period

What is scary is pilots are trying to make excuses or transfer responsibility
To justify these actions
Very disturbing

This has happened a few times out of millions and millions of flights involving 100's of 1000's of pilots

This has nothing to do with aviation
The occupation just made it easier and more catastrophic

Understood, but are you really suggesting that an airliner pilot must refer to a cabin crew to approve every decision?

I ask again - to those who want a second crew member in the Flight Deck what is their role?

some thoughts
 

not a pilot - first post here - i'm just an air-enthusiast who loves flying and planes...
wanted to post some thoughts about this disaster.
The speed at which they claimed suicide is alarming - since not all of the facts are known (although that is what this likely is - it's just odd to me that the investigation is sort of being conducted 'live').
the tidbit about him getting 'kurt' when discussing the landing means nothing in my opinion - he had NO way of knowing the captain was gonna leave the FD... it was a short flight - it was more likely on such a short flight that the captain would not leave at any point. there was no way for this copilot to know that this day was the day he could do this. also - "kurt" based on someone's opinion? how was he kurt?

secondly - as far as the passengers knowing what was happening - as a passenger, i would see the captain trying to break down the door and I'd think either it malfunctioned or the co-pilot was in trouble - i'd see the descent and I'd think - we're going to try for an emergency landing - maybe there's a small airport of a piece of flat land up ahead - i'd definitely be freaked out, but i would not assume i had moments to live - i'd be hoping that this gets resolved safely... i would not suspect we were going to be flown into a mountain... until the end. so tragic.

thirdly - regarding the door locks - i'm worried this incident will introduce more complexity and rules that will really not help. if someone is intent on killing everyone - they will do it. the 2 person rule is the only logical solution to MINIMIZE the risk (you get another chance for someone else to open the door) but nothing will mitigate the risk - and we can't get rid of all risk. the door locks i believe are important and I think they should stay. one other thought i have - is it at all possible to allow for the door to be opened remotely by ATC in the even of an emergency? that would be a possible solution - IF they can get ahold of ATC from outside the FD.

finally - the debate about airline pay - i agree with someone else who said higher pay does not equal more stable pilots/won't necessarily solve anything.. that may be true - but higher pay and better benefits would entice a larger pool of candidates into the field... you'd have more pilots and that would be a good thing. as it stands - everyone knows how difficult it is to get into and how stressful it can be (well - not everyone - but anyone who's considered it). also i agree that airlines have become too corporate - these should not be run by accountants and finance folks - it should be pilots, engineers and the like. it shouldn't be about stocks and shareholders... but again - not a pilot - so i don't understand all the politics.

I really wonder how many of the intelligent(?) posters on here have any experience of mental health (MH) issues in themselves or others?

I think very, very few!

You all need to understand VERY, VERY clearly that just because someone has MH issues it does NOT in anyway make them suicidal.
Folk talk about the reaction of employers, they are very rarely the issue

It is the likes of posters on here if they are within the same workforce and quite often members of the persons family that are the biggest issue to folk not wishing to be honest about their situation.

You know the fear of some of the unsensitive remarks folk are posting on this thread, the fear of being treated differently by colleagues, the fear of exclusion by colleagues.

I don't have MH issues in the main, well I did last year as a result of being diagnosed with two forms of cancer, but help and support from family, friends, employer and colleagues got me over the issue (though I never openly admitted it to anyone).
My other half has suffered for over 30 years and has needed a huge amount of support, but guess what has NEVER wanted to commit suicide. Nor wanted to kill others which was a possibility because of occupation

Looking at some of the discriminatory remarks on here, it is no surprise that sufferers do it in silence partially in fear of the reaction of friends, colleagues and others.
And through absolute ignorance on the subject

It is an issue where sufferers do need to know they will get support from all directions.
Sadly in this situation and as much the fault of colleagues innocent folk have lost their lives.
So if you are in the industry YOU need to stop and rethink your attitudes to the suffering of others as much as employers, family and even customers!

They are there in case of the flying pilot suffering from sudden health incapacittion and for cockpit access security.

They have no AC operational function.
Had a Flight attendant been present on the flight deck of the GermanWings flight, this disaster would most likely not have occurred.

Now you are being intentionally obtuse. Have a great day.

Great post west lakes. That does of course not excuse his actions or make them OK. But other pilots who are all vulnerable to MH issues shouldn't have to have their names and careers tainted if they ever became unwell because of this guy.

i can imagine that nothing about this disaster is any help to anyone out there who is struggling with depression, known or unknown, diagnosed or undiagnosed.

so I offer this up: when I was in my 40's I found myself feeling very unhappy with my day to day life. It was very subtle but over time, unmistakeable. Eventually I pretty much knew I was depressed. I did whatever I could to combat it, including running, which had always helped my mental state in the past.

At the time, depressive drugs were not allowed. I don't know how many pilots self reported depression at the time. I can't imagine it was very many. I had a family to support, and I saw the world through a warped lens.

But it became so bad I finally sought help from my family Dr., who scheduled a meeting with a Psychiatrist. The first thing he did was order a blood test which searched for a medical reason for depression.

And it turned out I had a severe case of hypothyroidism, which is not apparent from standard blood tests but requires a different test altogether.

There are medical reasons for depression that can be cured. I was off the line for three months while they readjusted my thyroid levels. I flew for 34 years b4 I retired. I never felt like that again, ever.

(Also, I never thought about killing anyone else. Not even my wife at the time, who had no idea about any of it, nor my FAA medical Dr, who didn't have a clue either.)


There are many medical reasons for depression, which, when addressed, completely cure the disease and the symptom, depression.


in case you didn't know.