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-   -   Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/558654-airbus-a320-crashed-southern-france.html)

CJ Romeo 26th Mar 2015 08:16

I'm not an Aviation Professional, but I am an industry expert in things that are also prone to the odd media frenzy over 'disasters'.

It's not just aviation, but there are all sorts of daft theories and so called experts (and people who know a bit, but who's knowledge is not quite current or close enough to the incident) the media are all too willing to report on any of this.

It's also rather easy to spot the journalists on here with their fishing rods!

akaSylvia 26th Mar 2015 08:19

However, in those rare cases of pilot suicide/mass murder, there's not a single instance of a safe descent leading to CFIT. Why risk eight minutes of possible interference, listening to your co-pilot and ATC when you have control of the cockpit and could get it over with much quicker.

Not that I like any of the other explanations any better, quite frankly.

jack schidt 26th Mar 2015 08:23

1) The cockpit door keycode is used to call the flight deck to open the door. At that point a pilot would verify the person trying to access the cockpit and only then swictch a switch to "release" the magnetic locks securing the door closed.

2) If the "in cockpit" pilot is unconcious while the other is out of the cockpit, a different code can be entered from the outside with a timer delay which would auto open the door if not permanently locked (using the deadbolt) by the pilot inside the cockpit. (This timer delay is there to allow a number of seconds to pass with the buzzer sounding in the cockpit for the "incapacitated" pilot to open the door using the console switch. Should the incapacitated pilot not open the door then the normal (magnetised) door locks would automatically open after the timer has expired.

3) Should any of the codes be used to try to gain access to the cockpit then, a lock door (spring loaded) switch can be held in the cockpit by a pilot until the "deadbolt" is put on to prevent the entry into the cockpit. To put the deadbolt on and prevent permanent access to the cockpit, a pilot has to get out of his seat normally and "slide/move" the deadbolt across the door preventing any access if the door was tried to be opened.

If the deadbolt was pushed across the door from the inside of the cockpit then, no matter what normal actions someone takes from outside the door, you will not be able to gain access.

FlyingStone 26th Mar 2015 08:25


However, in those rare cases of pilot suicide/mass murder, there's not a single instance of a safe descent leading to CFIT. Why risk eight minutes of possible interference, listening to your co-pilot and ATC when you have control of the cockpit and could get it over with much quicker.
Crash: LAM E190 over Botswana/Namibia on Nov 29th 2013, captain intentionally crashed aircraft

BuzzBox 26th Mar 2015 08:26


So, which airline will be the first to require a member of CC to be in the flight deck whilst one of the pilots attends to a call of nature ?
Plenty of airlines already do just that!

GAZIN 26th Mar 2015 08:27

IMO the aviation authorities have put security above safety.
Security measures get in the way of best practice, on the ground and in the air.
It has and will continue to result in loss of life. Perhaps this approach has saved more lives than have been lost. Who knows?

NigelOnDraft 26th Mar 2015 08:28


So, which airline will be the first to require a member of CC to be in the flight deck whilst one of the pilots attends to a call of nature ?
All this does is shift the problem from pilots with poor intentions to CC. A CC member, locked in the Flt Deck almost has an easier task than a sole pilot to create mischief - especially considering the equipment in the Flt Deck.

If the person's intent is terrorism related i.e. a sleeper, decide which is easier to plant: a pilot with an intensive six figure training process to go through, or a few week CC induction course?

Currently, a CC member would be pushed to rely on getting cockpit access with only 1 pilot present.

fireflybob 26th Mar 2015 08:33


So, which airline will be the first to require a member of CC to be in the flight deck whilst one of the pilots attends to a call of nature ?
Many already do and have done so for a long time since locked door policy was introduced.

Whopity 26th Mar 2015 08:34

Sounds very like the RAF's Airbus incident! Just throw in a locked door and all the holes in the cheese line up.

first_solo 26th Mar 2015 08:35

Enough regional airlines fly around with single cabin operation, impossible for the CA to leave the cabin unattented.

fireflybob 26th Mar 2015 08:35

Never mind a toilet break, quite often on a quick turnaround I never got out the seat - it's not very healthy to sit in one position for long periods and the activity of getting out the seat and freshening up keeps you alert and awake.

kevinbr 26th Mar 2015 08:36

Mobile phone
 
Having experimented in that region with phone signal from an aircraft, no signal. Also having driven on the ground in the area, very very poor signal. Lots of black spots. Generally it is very very hard to get out a text when above 2-3000 meters. You might have signal but text will hang.

Cagedh 26th Mar 2015 08:38


Originally Posted by akaSylvia
However, in those rare cases of pilot suicide/mass murder, there's not a single instance of a safe descent leading to CFIT. Why risk eight minutes of possible interference, listening to your co-pilot and ATC when you have control of the cockpit and could get it over with much quicker.

Very good question indeed!
But anyway, locked cockpit door or not, two pilots at the controls or not:
If one of the pilots is determined to kill himself and the passengers, it's more then probable that he will be able to do so.

Discussion about the need of a locked cockpit door are useless. One should perhaps be more careful about WHO is allowed to pilot an airliner, but then again it can never be guaranteed that someone perfectly sane, might freak out at the wrong moment.

I always need to laugh when I see airport security taking a bottle of water or Swiss knife away from a pilot! Utterly futile!

Pace 26th Mar 2015 08:39

This is absolutely shocking if true that this was an intentional act by a crew member. The security put in place created an awful event which itself was an act of terror (ism)
Someone suggested a changeable code which both crew members select for the day and which overrides any locking action from within but surely any person of the mindset to take himself out and 150 innocent people wouldn't think twice about killing the other crew member to get control of the aircraft!
Since 9/11 all focus has been on aircraft and a multi billion security industry has grown around aviation when there are other modes of transport where equal passenger numbers are carried with zero security
Where do we stop?
The next thing will be retina detection systems to identify crew members of an airline and only allow them access

silverstrata 26th Mar 2015 08:39


Nigeldraft

All this does is shift the problem from pilots with poor intentions to CC. A CC member, locked in the Flt Deck almost has an easier task than a sole pilot to create mischief - especially considering the equipment in the Flt Deck.

It does not shift anything, Nigel, its been like this for years.

We used to put paper wedges in the door-lock so it would not lock behind us, when flying with certain f/os. The only difference is that people might start talking about the problem, instead of deleting 'troublesome' posts on blogsites and denying it in parliament and the media.

DarkStar 26th Mar 2015 08:43

Frankly, this thread is losing all credibility.

Lets wait for the next BEA news conference and await the findings from the CVR .

INeedTheFull90 26th Mar 2015 08:45

Phones
 
It's all economy. And it's been a while since I've see a sat phone on any euro short haul.

Much is being made about phone calls. I don't understand it. What could it possibly do to help the situation?

twentyyearstoolate 26th Mar 2015 08:49


When the locked door policy was introduced, it was blatantly obvious that something or other disastrous was bound to happen eventually. Fortunately I had retired when locked doors came into use. Had they been introduced before I was due to retire then I might well have been seeking early retirement.

The locked door policy is not only dangerous but signifies a resounding victory for the terrorists.
Totally agree. Things need to change before anything else sinister happens.

fflyingdog 26th Mar 2015 08:49

My previous post removed to seems i'm in good company ,as for the question on door lock checking ,with my previous company it was checked every pre-flight by crew and maintenance and we (maintenance) changed the code every 7 days.

gpbeck 26th Mar 2015 08:56

Whatever cabin door procedures are to be, they should not and cannot rely on secrecy for their effectiveness.


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