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Originally Posted by Sheep Guts Reasons not to stop searching in the South China Sea |
Centre of arcs
People sorry if this has already been discussed on any of the previous 171 pages of this thread, but:
what does the centre point of those arcs represent and how was it determined? Thanks |
Been covered, it's the geosynchronous satellite position.
Please resize the graphic |
tomnod lat long
Hmmm tomnod hasn't given up on the S China Sea
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foxnewsinsider.com NOW joins ABC NEWS in reporting the "pre-programmed turn":
"Investigators believe that someone intentionally switched off the jetliner’s tracking devices and then flew the plane for several hours. The left turn that was made was reportedly pre-programmed into the plane’s navigational computer, raising a lot of questions." I somewhat agree with BARREL questioning that, and the timing, as the 40 degree course correction occurred at the waypoint first, and the ACARS was gone by then. (although I suggested a convoluted workaround possibility). I wish ABC NEWS and now FOX would confirm this reliably, name a source, whatever. Its NOT a trivial point! UPDATE to GLENDALE. The event log for ACARS supposedly shows the FMC entry. Thats why the timing of the ACARS system being alive/active, and other entries, is so critical now. |
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The IOR satellite which heard the pings is more than 38000km straight above a point at 64E on the equator. That point is the centre of the red circle. If a circle is drawn with that centre it represents points that are equidistant from IOR.
The ping at 8:11am came from a point on that red circle. |
Inmarsat pings
I find it strange that investigators talk about two possible routes based on Inmarsat pings. These are not routes, but merely candidates for the final resting point (+/- one hour's movement).
My understanding is that the satellite logged the signal round-trip time, which allowed to calculate the distance between the airplane and the satellite. So for every one of these 6 pings, there is a ring on the Earth surface where the airplane must have been during the ping. The portions of the ring that are too far away for the fuel load are cut away, and so we get the curve on the map as shown by investigators. From the 6 pings, there must be 6 different rings. But we are only shown curves from a single ring (probably from the final one). Is there any information about the other 5 pings? It would at least help determine the lateral motion of the plane (how much it moved "towards" or "away" from the satellite). If all 6 pings had the same round-trip time, it probably means the plane stood still (maybe flying a holding pattern until the fuel ran out). It is very improbable that the plane was programmed to fly a curve that would keep the same distance from the Inmarsat satellite for hours. This isn't a Great Circle route at all. Unless of course the whole Inmarsat story is a cover for a leak from intelligence sources. |
Originally Posted by glendalegoon
(Post 8382152)
I realize I'm flying pretty low tech planes by some standards but PLEASE TELL ME HOW SOMEONE KNOWS IF THERE IS PREPROGRAMMED TURN IN the FMS without having the FMS present?
rigbyrigs, how does someone know without being on the plane if it is pre programmed? I don['t know anyone? I fly the B777 and I can't think of a way for anyone to know what was programmed on the FMC of MH 370. Some airlines can upload a flight plan directly to the aircraft, but even so, the pilot has to request the upload and activate the route. This just seems to me like more bad information and more bad media reporting. |
Originally Posted by V-Jet
(Post 8382131)
The photo's I have seen of the Captains sim indicate to me it is little more than a toy.
I do NOT understand why someone with as much experience as this guy flying the real thing would build such a box, let alone use it! He could have used the Sim's at work, clearly he was senior enough to probably even bring friends in if he particularly wanted to. It is quite bizarre, and indicates someone obsessed. |
@YYZjim
Professional pilots should bear in mind that the MH370 S&R fiasco will likely result in the public's demanding changes. It might be wise for professional pilots to propose their own solution, rather than wait for governments and regulators to impose new rules. Perhaps the pilots' unions should propose that: 1. the automatic reporting system installed by the airframe manufacturer, which transmits data through the Inmarsat satellite system, be modified so that it sends a GPS position as well as hull data; 2. that the frequency of the Inmarsat reports be increased from every half-hour to, say, once every ten minutes; 3. that this reporting system be tied to the aircraft's main power bus (and thus placed outside human control); and 4. that the pilots' unions would pay the marginal cost which, at $2.00 per transmission, is not very much at all. This service would: 1. increase the difficulty of a third-party hijacking; 2. protect all pilots from the stain on them which may remain if the mystery of MH370 is never sorted out; and 3. provide much comfort to future passengers. This probably warrants a thread of its own as it is not necessarily unique to this event (thought it will be triggered by it). From a technical point of view the frequency of transmissions need not be in static intervals. Transponder signals are somewhat continuous (short intervals). ACARS can be dynamic in intervals depending on the "health" of the airframe. If all is good space them out or if faults/irregularities are detected send as often as possible. While in flight, I see no reason that anyone should have control over that type of communication. |
"Thunder Ball"
Sooner not later they will cut back the searches, A notoice will come out "Please watch out for XYZ" It's all about money, Not people. CYA not the truth. The insurance carriers, Joint power Authorities & your Corrupt public officals will lead the way. That plane can sit in 2 conditions. 1, Hijacked in one peice waittin for the payout. 2, Hijacked in a watery or dry smokin hole. Someone goofed. 3, Used as a weapon & blown out of the sky. Nobody wants to come clean. Door 1, 2 or 3 |
Transponder ID change?
Can the transponder on a 777 have its ID changed during flight?
That is is it possible to change the ICAO aircraft unique serial number and/or aircraft identification parameters. If so, is it feasible MH370 was 'rebirthed' while out of civil radar range and entered new airspace as a different aircraft? |
Sheep Guts says
Reasons not to stop searching in the South China Sea 1. Last SSR 01:22 am near IGARI waypoint 2. Very descriptive eyewitness account from the Song Mercur Oil Rig off Vung Tau. Which was checked by 1 Veitnam Aircraft only, no sea or sea floor sonar search ever done to date. he was 370 miles away. I don't know how many more times that can be stressed! His account is not creditable in the sense of "having anything to do with this investigation." Plus, Vietnam told Malaysia on day 1 they watched the plane turn around, so it is not like it would have continued moving towards him - if anything, that distance would have been greater than 370 when he claims to have seen who knows what 3. The 40 degree IOR Satellite ring passes through the same area South Veitnam coast . Which is only being discounted for one reason radar coverage. The last ping at 08:11 am was on this 40 degree ring. Some reports saying all the pings came from 1 place. Yes they did come from one place, the wreckage in the South China Sea until it sunk some time after 08:11am. ...so the question is, do you have a real actually factual reason to search there, or is it just a gut feeling telling us to continue to search the very small body of very shallow water for more than the 8 days 14 countries already searched it? |
Israel Prepares for Possible Attack by Hijacked Malaysian Plane As terrorism fears grow in Malaysian plane case, Israeli officials increase already-tight precautions By Times of Israel staff and AP March 16, 2014, 9:41 pm EDT Israel has tightened security in its airspace following the disappearance and possible hijacking of Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 on March 8, Channel 2 reported Sunday. According to the report, security officials and aviation authorities recently held a security assessment and decided upon a series of security measures intended to enhance safety in Israeli airspace. Among the measures, airliners are now required to identify themselves much earlier when approaching Israel’s airspace. [anybody see this yet in a NOTAM? - Airbubba] Other actions were not disclosed at this time. The increased security came as El Al’s former global security chief told The Times of Israel he believes that the disappearance of the Malaysia Airlines flight points directly to Iran. Once again, obviously there is still very much that is not being disclosed publically. :eek: |
DCrefugee said
Not my understanding of the public information. ACARS was shut down shortly after feet wet and before Malaysian ATC bid the flight farewell. Shortly after which the transponder(s) was/were disabled. The SATCOM system, however, continued to function, in a sort of keep-alive mode, but did not pass flight or aircraft data to the satellite(s). It's the last of those recurring signals that Inmarsat has plotted along roughly the 40N arcs. Don't have time right now to search for a better mention, but here is a quick one at least Modern aircraft can communicate with airline operations bases and sometimes with the headquarters of its manufacturers automatically in order to send maintenance alerts known as ACARS messages. It was this system that sent out the regular ping, which may have lasted for several hours, the sources said. |
cockpitvisit
The ping information released was only from the final 8:11am ping. Info about the earlier pings has not been released although there was apparently some unconfirmed rumour from CNN earlier this morning that the previous ping was from the same distance as the last. The pings do just give us distance from satellite (based on signal travel time). Yes, the investigators must have other rings for earlier pings. The fact that POR and AORE did not hear pings at 8:11am rules out parts of the red circle. Travel distance also helps a little. That gives two red arcs: north and south. The plane either went to the north arc or the south one. Thus there are loosely two ``routes''. |
Role of ACARS event log:
"Event Log – In near real-time, the event log gives you a view of what is happening in your fleet worldwide. From data taken from the Aircraft Management System and transmitted through the EFB channel, you can determine what aircraft are on, in, out or off. You can also access communications open/close events, view messages sent or received, or determine when new content has been downloaded for transfer to an aircraft." (of course ACRS must be ON/active!!!) |
Question for ana1936
ana1936 posted some time ago:
"The red arcs are determined just by working out the accurate distance of the ping source from one single satellite (IOR). The ping messages are very accurately timestamped using very accurate clocks at both ends. Even though this communication system is not for GPS purposes it uses similarly accurate clocks. So we know that the plane was, say 38000km, from the satellite at 0:11Z. That gives a circle on the surface of the earth.(The so-called 40 degree circle). No other satellites could be used as there are only four satellites altogether in space listening for ACARS pings. They do not cover the relevant longitudes: they are below the horizon from most of the Indian Ocean and middle Eurasia. The fact that that the other satellites (POR and AOR-E) did not hear the 0:11Z ping rules out some chunks of the red circle. This leaves the two red arcs." ana1936 - your posts have been first class. Are you satisfied with the gap between the two red arcs and that it appears that POR did not pickup the ping? Perhaps, being near the extreme range limits of POR, it can be acceptable that the ping was not received ?? |
Can the "pings" be used to discern azimuth o those arcs? I understand how the arcs are defined, but is it just an assumption that the plane moved "around" the arc or is there a azimuth solution?
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