Batteries
 

During the PC the MAS CEO was questioned about these batteries packages. Answer was that it was properly packed and NOT considered dangerous/hazardous as per ICAO standards.

There is little evidence about anything, so all possibilities remain open.

So, if the Lithium batteries weren't categorised as dangerous goods, how can you pack them according to ICAO instructions? ICAO only provides instructions for dangerous goods, doesn't it?

A quick search reveals lithium batteries have UN code 3090 or 3481 in the dangerous goods manual, so they are categorised and the CEO is lying.

"Anyone notice that Hishamuddin definitely said six pings were received at the press conference tonight?"

The only way they could have narrowed down the search to such an extent is with the data from all six pings. It would have been impossible with just the final ping at 8:11 (unless I've got the facts wrong).

They say ICAO, probably mean IATA

Cynar,

Any data aust has us likely to be shared with the us and nz if relevant to the sar effort.

Hmmm, it is two years since I left cargo operation, but at my last place we did consider those batteries as CAO (cargo aircraft only), and included a temperature check before loading and a holdover time in hot outside temperatures. Basically we treated them like any other temperature sensitive material with the addition of an potential offload in case of.

Malaysian Cargo has obviously changed a lot since management change.

Survivors
 

Along with the searching of the southern oceans, there has been talk of "survivors". While I for one am hoping that this may be the case, is it really feasible?

The quantity may have been too small to qualify as such.

But again, this has not been disclosed.

And Dangerous Goods range from corrosives and the real stuff to things which aren't dangerous when limitations are complied with. Like gas powered hair curlers, matches, and sporting ammo. I would be interested to know what "a shipment of lithium ion batteries" actually means. A couple of new laptops in their boxes? Or a slab of just the batteries?

currawong

DGR is DGR. It always qualifies. The quantity allowed on board is a different subject.

@500N

Totally agree. I have thought from early on that the U.S. and Australia would pool intel that might not necessarily be routed through Malaysia. Sort of a back-channel. Plus, they might not reveal the exact *sources* of the intel, even to one another.

Data can be saved for post-exercise or post-operation analysis. The key question though is their presence.

First, it would only be an anti-air war capable ship that would have such an air guard radar. Data recording is routine in maritime patrol aircraft and airborne early warning aircraft and, if replicated in a surface ship, could therefore be recovered.

The key point though is the presence of a naval ship, possible in the Bay of Bengal and unlikely in the southern ocean, and whether that ship was an air defence vessel. That is highly unlikely.

That is the biggest admission yet. I'm sorry but all Lithium ion batteries UN3840 are categorized as dangerous goods. But different quantities and sizes are declared permissible dangerous goods. Either carry on by pax or in devices for carry and checked. Even certain lithium ion batteries by 100wh cannot be checked on.
If these batteries were placed in the cargo hold of MH370 in 5kg packs they are permissible under ICAO for pax aircraft. But the Airline must have a DG on pax aircraft policy.
35kg packs are Cargo Aircraft Only.
Honestly these new Lithium Ion battery rules that came out this year can be very confusing.
Irrespective the ICAO Drill for UN 3840 is 9FZ was upgraded from 9FL last year. But is this change enough. I think these batts should be banned from all pax flights. Except for carry on reason, laptop etc.
Once you put the new Z code on something and put in a cargo hold. Nothing will put out the fire. Seems insane to put this on a pax aircraft and also for that matter a cargo aircraft. A cargo aircraft can still crash into a village.
http://www.icao.int/safety/Dangerous...P.076.4.en.pdf

I was not saying that the flight in question has a 3-man crew. I was merely saying the behaviour described by SLF is 'typical' of a 3-man op. On a 2man crew the 'usual' method is controlled rest on the flight deck, not outside of it.

It's a valid question but the media have already started the lynch mob, let's not give them any more to start with until we can verify if it did in fact happen.... unlikely, I might add...

Hunter58,

We are on the same page then.

"Limited Quantity" I think is the term - been a while though :ok:

I know that this has been posted before but I can't find the answer.

As I understand it, the so called 'black box' has a loop system and will show only a certain period of time prior to a crash.

Obviously if only a few hours are contained there will be no information about the time of the event some (assumed) 7-8 hours prior to termination.

Does anyone have a figure for the time contained in the black box?

I must say lithium cells in forms and quantities that are prone to chain reactions are a risk I'd classify even above live ammunition. That said, single packed cells, perhaps as a part of some small electronic device is not very likely to cause that nasty fire that cannot be put out. They would still qualify as DGR though.

lithium ion
 

Lets just clarify we are talking about lithium-ion (rechargeable) as opposed to lithium which are single discharge (disposables)

And after the UPS crash i realised thanks to many very informative people on here just how dangerous this can be as cargo.

Read here for more info...imho it shouldn't be travelling as air freight.

Managing the lithium (ion) battery fire risk - Industrial Fire Journal - Fire & Rescue - Hemming Group Ltd

They may not be dangerous as properly packed cargo... but imho they are inherently dangerous as the average Joe does not see them as such...

case in point... a few years ago (before i knew better) ordered a couple of spare batteries for my Olympus camera. I was actually shocked when they arrived in a manila padded envelope marked as 'gift'. Not even isolated terminals and freely clinking around the bag.... I emailed the seller and they could not have cared less so I filed a report with eBay and explained that they needed to have a clear instruction on sale/shipping of these batteries.

Just think how many of these little 'gifts' are flying in your cargo hold daily :eek: