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-   -   Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost.html)

papershuffler 14th Mar 2014 13:55

@brika; answer=42
 

The ping with time, direction, speed, altitude comes from a source other than Rolls Royce.

What we know as a consequence of the US analysis is the location at the last ping, its then current time, direction, speed, altitude and when the engines were switched off.
Does the ping include identity information though?



From post on flyertalk:


India Expands Search for Missing MH370 in Bay of Bengal Sea BFW 12:30
Indian Navy Confident Missing Plane Not Near Andaman Islands BFW 12:15
*INDIA HAS CONTINUOUS RADAR DETECTION SYSTEM CLOSE TO ANDAMAN BN 12:04
*INDIAN NAVY OFFICIAL COMMENTS ON SEARCH FOR MISSING MH370 PL... BN 12:04
*INDIAN NAVY CONFIDENT MISSING PLANE NOT NEAR ANDAMAN ISLANDS BN 12:04
*INDIAN RADARS WOULD HAVE DETECTED PLANE IF IT ENTERED ANDAMAN BN 12:04


March 14 (Bloomberg) -- Indian Navy is confident missing
Malaysian Airline flight 370 not near Andaman Islands because it
would have been detected by radar, said a naval official, who
declined to be identified as the official isn’t authorized to
discuss the matter publicly.
• Says the area is a key shipping route, heavily patrolled by navy to prevent pirate attacks
• There is continuous radar detection system close to Andaman Islands that would have picked up the plane
Somewhat contradictory; for them to be searching in the Bay of Bengal, the plane would have had to circumvent the Andaman Islands?

Other radar coverage info:
Vietnam - Products & Services

answer=42 14th Mar 2014 14:00

@papershuffler
Yes, it must do. The primary purpose is to provide information for maintenance of the particular aircraft.
Someone with more knowledge than I posted ages ago about the data packet structure and encryption.

kenjaDROP 14th Mar 2014 14:03

@papershuffler


Does the ping include identity information though?
It would be better if it did, but, in a way, it doesn't have to include identity, if you think about it. If, after all the data analysis, the sat monitoring of the pings produced the track of an aircraft (carrying the capability to ping this system), non-identifiable*, in this region, then you could take a fair guess it could be MH370.

*non-identifiable via passive radar/ATC, that is.

ChicoG 14th Mar 2014 14:09


This captain was a true Aviator who loved his job and who loved his plane and who loved flying. And he was one who believed in sharing the dream with the simulation community and had FUN doing it. I also understand he was involved with one company who makes high fidelity flight sim products.

No, aviation today does not only consist of people who can't wait for retirement, some people actually love their job. Some of them fly warbirds, some of them have a private Cessna and others have a flight sim. If that makes them suspects, then I don't know who we should trust to fly our airliners. I think we sometimes forget that there are people who genuinely love flying and live their dream in every way they can. God bless them, there are enough others too.
I really don't think someone who has a Flight Sim at home for sinister purposes would be broadcasting the fact, along with all the hardware that he's bought to put it together (sounds like he built his own -rather impressive - Gaming PC for this purpose), and more importantly using his own name.

He's obviously a really keen gamer and SIM'er, so people that keep harping on about this point really aren't doing themselves any favours.

Background chatter that can be turned down I think.

philipat 14th Mar 2014 14:10


Why do you posters keep going over the same ground asking about data transfer from the aircraft?!
Because the Americans state this is what they have? It might be triangulated from data collected by other Spook satellites so don't expect them to be too specific.

Comanche 14th Mar 2014 14:13


I totally disagree with you, you're making judgement on a person based on your own experience or that of other (potentially) burned out drivers (often with long careers at regional level).

I know of a pilots with 14K+ totally absorbed by their r/c hobby or flight sim hobby, building and developing planes in both. Capt Shah was even cooperating and helping a flight sim software developer to produce T7 sims.
Professional pilots flying flight sims at home - in the short haul sector at least - is more of an exception then a rule. Or at least pilots don't tell, don't ask. Admittedly, the long haul sector I know little about and perhaps the lack of landings/take offs - and my imagination may be able to stretch so far - is reason for having fun in a computer sim. If capt Shah had a business or interest on the side helping to develop sims, now that is an ENTIRELY different story and I would cordially withdraw any of my comments if that's the case.

Hornbill88 14th Mar 2014 14:14

All through this tragic and appalling episode I have been most persuaded by the simplest solution - catastrophic malfunction, pilot tries to go back to KL, passes out and plane flies on in straight line until fuel runs out.

But I do wonder:

1 why Hashimmuddin is so evasive on background checks on crew. Maybe it is a "police matter" as he says but he is big shot enough to get the police to report, unless they have already done so and he doesn't like the answers. Ditto for the pilot's sim - seems not unreasonable to me that he should have one at home, so why not just go and take a look at what's there?

2 why no-one has said what's in the cargo - though to be fair, I'm not sure that anyone other than posters on this site has asked. The journalists certainly haven't at the last two news conferences.

3 what is the source of this notion of zig-zagging round the waypoints in the Andaman Sea and tracking the SQ flight? I can't find the original post, which might (very reasonably) have been deleted, I have only seen the comments which sound totally bizarre.

James7 14th Mar 2014 14:18

Tracking
 
Not sure if all or any DME stations have recording facilities but it could be possible to ID an aircraft from the DME pulses. Each DME transmits an unique set of pulses specifics to the transceiver.

The pilots obviously knew what they were doing if it is eventually found out that it was stolen / hijacked. My guess anyway.

Probably used JepView on an iPad connected to a Bluetooth GPS to navigate.
If the guy was into flight sim etc, no doubt had Jeppersen on his iPad. Or any other multitude of standalone map apps.

No need for any Flight management transmissions to give their position away.

thcrozier 14th Mar 2014 14:22

Radar coverage on Malaysian Pelinsula
 
Way way back in this thread, someone posted a nice map showing a corridor with no overlapping radar coverage on the MP. That was when there were only vague suggestions of a primary paint turning back to the Northwest.

Can't find it now. Anyone have the post #?

Peninsula

SMOC 14th Mar 2014 14:24


Their background should be checked, their houses searched, the flight simulator carefully scrutinised etc etc - in the hope that some clue to this mystery, however small, may be turned up.
Agree, however the posts here using the simulator as proof of foul play are a joke, as it's been said people have hobbies, private planes, radio controlled, all sorts just because it's different to others doesn't make it evidence.

If he had a SCUBA qualification and crashed in the water then he must be guilty, imagine if he did skydiving as a hobby.

dmba 14th Mar 2014 14:27

Map
 
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BirwabjCIAACtVF.png:large

MPN11 14th Mar 2014 14:29


Originally Posted by thcrozier
Way way back in this thread, someone posted a nice map showing a corridor with no overlapping radar coverage on the MP. That was when there were only vague suggestions of a primary paint turning back to the Northwest.

Can't find it now. Anyone have the post #?

... this one? http://www.pprune.org/8368697-post2138.html

mabuhay_2000 14th Mar 2014 14:30

FE Hoppy
 
Whilst I would search the homes of the two flight crew, it would be to eliminate, as things stand now.

Having dealt with thousands of criminals, bigtime and smalltime, my instinct on this is that the crew were not involved. They are clearly both intelligent men and would be highly unlikely to do anything so stupidly obvious as to build. A simulator in their house and tell the world. They'd do it on the QT. And the pics I've seen, where he shows all the PC hardware in boxes is not in keeping with a criminal mastermind, just a bloke who loved his hobby.

lapp 14th Mar 2014 14:30


Once the aircraft was low enough and in range of mobile phone masts then all mobile phones could be tracked and positioned with some degree of accuracy.
There are no towers in the ocean.


The phone does not even have to be on. Just the battery installed.
Wrong, phones off or in airplane mode do not make any network activity whatsoever.


Once a few mobile numbers of the pax have been identified, pretty simple task, then the position of these phones should be easy to locate
So catch a fly to KL, join the investigation, they will tell you the clown you are instead of me.

fox niner 14th Mar 2014 14:36

So did they make it to IGREX or was that the last TO waypoint? Or did they get any further according to the pings?

ildarin 14th Mar 2014 14:36


Commander:

Quote:
I've been flying commercial (747 and AB340s) for longer than I care to admit, and I have a flightsim at home in the basement. Does that make me crazy or a criminal?
Not at all. It means you don't have much of a life. :D
I got one - computer FMS simulator only. It's a waste of time to use a multimullion level D dollar simulator to practise punching buttons.

Came in handy when I took a B-717 recurrent ride and the powers that be stuck a DC-9 pilot in the right seat (hey, it's the same type rating, isn't it?)

James7 14th Mar 2014 14:37

Lapp.

You are incorrect. Even with the phone off, it can be activated by suitable equipment and the mic turned on. Someone can listen in to your conversation.

The only way to deactivate the phone is to take the battery out and this is an absolute fact! Google it if you don't believe me. Mobile phones are a tracking device off or on. Fact!

Of course not over the ocean but it was reported to be flying over land.

Pax families will have phone numbers.

bille1319 14th Mar 2014 14:38

I doubt if all the pax were duped. I usually carry a hand held satnav which works fine by a window seat. Surely there must have been a few awake by the window seats could see that the a/c had changed course dramatically and it being a half moon that night would cast changing shadows on the wing. Therefore it would seem to me that intervention by the pax is highly likely at the later end.

ManaAdaSystem 14th Mar 2014 14:40

RE. flight simulators
 
MS Flight simulator is history. It was taken over by Lockheed Martin, and is promoted as a training tool.
As for the 777: This is a picture of a MS Flight simulator addon from PMDG. It is not just eye candy, it has a programmable FMC, nearly all switches work as they do in a real cockpit. TCAS works. You can simulate failures. You can autoland. All APFD modes work. Autobrakes, autospoilers, cockpit lights. LNAV/VNAV. Radios. Transponder. All displays work. You can download realtime weather. Download nav database which is just the same as the one you got in the real aircraft. You can set it up as a virtual cockpit with the right equipment. Look around the cockpit by turning your head.
Ii is not a toy, it is usable as a training tool on your home PC at the fraction of the cost of a real simulator.

http://www.precisionmanuals.com/img/...77_VC_gate.jpg

thcrozier 14th Mar 2014 14:40

MPN11

Similar, but the one I'm thinking of also showed the coverage coming down from Thailand, depicting an uncovered "corridor" at about 10N.


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