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-   -   Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost.html)

khorton 14th Mar 2014 13:05


Then why FL295? Because they were possibly transiting an area where the Quadrangal rule is in effect and they wanted to be sure that they didn't hit anything coming the other way, because this is in effect up to FL290 (see the Malaysian AIP). So why not fly at FL355? Possible because other planes flying at FL340 - 360 could see them pass relatively close under them and advise ATC of a "near miss"?
What is the source of FL295 as the altitude? If it is from primary radar, keep in mind that the altitude will be quite approximate, and that it will be in geometric altitude (like you would measure with a tape measure). Aircraft cruise altitudes are barometric altitudes, based on measuring air pressure and converting to altitude, assuming that the air pressure vs altitude is the same as the Standard Atmosphere. But, in the real world, with variations of air temperature and local atmospheric pressure, the relationship between barometric altitude and geometric altitude can easily vary by 1000 or 2000 ft at high altitude.

So, a report of FL295 from primary radar could easily be an aircraft cruising at FL280, FL290, FL300 or FL310 based on its barometric altimeter.

wiggy 14th Mar 2014 13:11


Does the not-knowing make you nervous when you turn up for work?
Personally no. I don't want to sound as if I'm callous or unsympathetic for the plight of the relatives, that's not the case and I'd like to know what happened but no two flights/accidents are the same and my job is to prevent another one from happening, not worrying about one I have no influence over.


I am curious as to how you deal with this on a daily basis
TBH it's report for work as normal, get airborne, probably spend some of the time in the cruise talking about the accident and having a special chuckle about some of the theories in this place.....pretty much a routine day at the office.

CodyBlade 14th Mar 2014 13:11

FL295 was confirmed by the RMAF Chief.

ekpilot 14th Mar 2014 13:13

So the captain builds and flies an advanced sim on his off days instead of going to the mosque 5 times a day - and HE is the suspect one!!?? Get real!

It's been 2000 posts since I last contributed, and whereas I truely appreciate the input from fellow professionals, from the aviation industry and others, I can't help but being angered by those writing here with the only purpose of satisfying their own curiosity and/or writing mindless nonsense. GO AWAY! Find another forum. Or stay. Read.. And learn.

FE Hoppy 14th Mar 2014 13:17


As a retired senior detective and AVSEC specialist, I laugh when somebody says they can't spot too many, sleepers in the PAX manifest.

If it were as easy to catch hijackers by reading down the PAX manifest, we'd catch them all easily.

Hijackers don't necessarily have the same profile as your average terrorist. Why? Because not all hijackers are terrorists.

As for the crew, the captain and first officer have nothing, it seems, in common. There is a large age gap. There is a large disparity in experience. One appears to be a man dedicated to his job, the other a bit of a playboy (if earlier reports are at all accurate).

And no one planning this type of op would have drawn attention to himself by publicizing that he had a fairly good mock simulator in his house.

If the aircraft has been nicked, its more likely to be via hijacking.
As a retired senior detective are you satisfied that there is no reason the search the Pilot's homes?

Or would you prefer to help eliminate them from the enquiry by checking for any evidence?

Pitot Probe 14th Mar 2014 13:18


but no two flights/accidents are the same and my job is to prevent another one from happening, not worrying about one I have no influence over.
+1


Also. I am taking Cockpit Entry Procedures a bit more seriously at the moment!

1stspotter 14th Mar 2014 13:19

This seems a very clever job. Disappear at handover, change route a couple of times. Disable all communications.

The Malaysians and the US for sure know more than willing to tell the public. Too many smokescreens and confirm/unconfirms of leads. I am pretty sure those satellite images released by error by a Chinese state agency was another smoke screen to win time.

911 has proven the capabilities of Taliban. They know about aircraft. They never claimed the attacks.

What about hijacking the plane to a Taliban controlled area in Pakistan?
Or more likely just ditch the aircraft in a part of the Indian Ocean being certain it will be hard if not impossible to find?
Or was it heading for Karachi or a city in India and shot down?

Most passengers were Chinese. Uighur/Taliban terrorist attack?

ShenziRubani 14th Mar 2014 13:19

so annoying to see these posts about the Capt and his flight sim hobby. What the heck! We fly airplane, love airplane (for most) and many of us have flight sim as a hobby. All these non-aviation people fishing for stuff on here need to use their brain a tiny bit: he's already a T7 captain, he doesn't need a home flight sim to learn how to hijack his own flight.
:mad:

Comanche 14th Mar 2014 13:20


According to Shah's friends, he knew the ins and the outs of the Boeing 777 extremely well as he was always practising with a flight simulator of the plane he had set up at his home, Reuters reported.
The fact of a commercial pilot with 18000 hrs having a flight simulator set up at home is VERY VERY suspicious indeed. Sure, some of us airline pilots fly small planes on days off, but flying a 777 computer flight simulator in your spare time is unheard of in my experience and highly unusual. Apart from flying line trips, there are also the twice annual obligatory commercial simulator rides, very few pilots - if any - would have the desire to then also fly from home in some sort of low-fidelity set up, unless you were testing out certain dodgy scenario's.....


We fly airplane, love airplane (for most)
unusual for pilot with 18000 hrs, for many above 10000 hrs or so the fun fades and it really becomes more of a job. Ever heard of any pilots asking crewing for more flying rather than less? Didn't think so.

Speed of Sound 14th Mar 2014 13:21

Evey_Hammond
 

How are the professional pilots taking this ongoing story? Is it all that's talked about? Does the not-knowing make you nervous when you turn up for work? As a non-pilot I can hardly begin to image how un-nerving this occurrence must be and I am curious as to how you deal with this on a daily basis
Your answer lies in the word I have highlighted.

I'd say that although it will be a topic for discussion and much speculation, it will be business as usual.

Frenchwalker 14th Mar 2014 13:21

Its not a crime to have a flight sim
 
For the love of god, pilots have flight sims,

i am a simply student pilot and i use my flight sim day in a day out practicing and refreshing on procedures and at $700 a nav flight its smarter to practice my navigation on a flight sim with my ipad

how do you think a Airline pilot practices? i wonder what the going rate for a 777 per hour is :ugh:

i practice aproaches and even emergency situations so that i am ready for when the worst happens "excluding the wings falling off of couse"

it is very common place for any pilot to have a flight sim

drop the nonsence

answer=42 14th Mar 2014 13:22

@Brika

The way I understand it, the way the logic works is like this:

If (engines running) then {
Every half hour {
Get (time, direction, speed, altitude);
If (engine event) then Get (engine status);
Get (other information);
Ping (time, direction, speed, altitude, engine status, other information) to recipients;
}
}

But, because the engine status and other information reports have been switched off, what was actually happening was:

If (engines running) then {
Every half hour {
Get (time, direction, speed, altitude);
Ping (time, direction, speed, altitude) to recipients;
}
}

On reception by Rolls Royce, this ping is automatically detected as null information and is therefore filtered out, probably with no record.

The ping with time, direction, speed, altitude comes from a source other than Rolls Royce.

What we know as a consequence of the US analysis is the location at the last ping, its then current time, direction, speed, altitude and when the engines were switched off.

There appears to be a gap in time between the last way-station and the reported engine off time. This is because the way-station is in the middle of the ocean. Hence, this does not tell us much.

Question: if the routing had been maintained after the last way-station passed, what would be the identity of the next way-station and when would it have been passed?

Van Der 14th Mar 2014 13:30

@James7 (sorry I cannot find the quote function...)
Ref your post in italics below:


"dmba...The idea that pilots would take a plane should surely be the least conceivable on this forum...

History is not on your side. Only recently an Ethiopian plane was hijacked by the co-pilot with the Captain locked out. Aircraft landed in Geneva etc.."



Also recently (Nov 2013) a LAM Embraer 190 was "hijacked" by the Captain and flown into the ground enroute between MPM and LAD, killing all 27 occupants.


http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...rashed-11.html


Maybe not so inconceivable anymore...?

aterpster 14th Mar 2014 13:31


it is very common place for any pilot to have a flight sim
Not professionals.

Some have light airplanes, some fly gliders; most try to forget about all of it on their own time.

kenjaDROP 14th Mar 2014 13:40

About the 'pings'
 
Those of you postulating about whether the 'ping' paging addresses from the aircraft's SATCOM system reporting would contain GPS, flight level, speed, heading, etc.....it clearly didn't because it didn't pass over ANY data string. Get it into your heads, as confirmed officially, the airline was not signed up for this aircraft to pass SATCOM data of this type to Boeing.

Why do you posters keep going over the same ground asking about data transfer from the aircraft?!

What the plane WAS doing is, nevertheless, continuing to page the (non-contracted into) satellite monitoring system with its 'pings'.

Now, if there were two satellites or, better, three which had logged only those pings against accurate time, that would - when all the mountain of data is analysed - provide a position. The continuing repeat 'pings', with known time frequency, would enable the monitoring organisation to extrapolate the heading and speed, and maybe the altitude, for as long as the 'pings' lasted.

turnandburn 14th Mar 2014 13:40

As most incidents have multiple factors. Adecompression with mec fire with multiple bus failures, and in doning oxy masks the oxy bottles were refilled with nitrogen(the ground ones that is) this transfered to aircraft.
They just tried to turn back before being overcome with toxic fumes.Drop to FL295 give best TAS

Like UPS and asiana 747s
Everything supposition until they find something

FlyingOfficerKite 14th Mar 2014 13:43


The fact of a commercial pilot with 18000 hrs having a flight simulator set up at home is VERY VERY suspicious indeed.
I've got an air rifle in my loft, a selection of knives in the kitchen, a pilot's licence and a map of the World.

I don't believe it - I'm a knife wielding, gun toting, international suicide pilot - AND I NEVER KNEW IT!!!

Seriously though, I'm pleased no one's mentioned the parachutes kept in the flight deck - just in case we decide its a bad day and we've had enough!

CommanderCYYZ 14th Mar 2014 13:44

@aterpster and Comanche
 
I've been flying commercial (747 and AB340s) for longer than I care to admit, and I have a flightsim at home in the basement. Does that make me crazy or a criminal?

Lots of my colleagues fly sims at home, or go to a location near YYZ where they have a near professional grade simulator that one can rent. Simulators allow you to fly situations that you hope you will never encounter in real life, or simply try other virtual AC just for the fun of it.

You guys...

answer=42 14th Mar 2014 13:48

@KenjaDROP

Your statement:

Those of you postulating about whether the 'ping' paging addresses from the aircraft's SATCOM system reporting would contain GPS, flight level, speed, heading, etc.....it clearly didn't because it didn't pass over ANY data string. Get it into your heads, as confirmed officially, the airline was not signed up for this aircraft to pass SATCOM data of this type to Boeing.
is TRUE.

But there were other recipients than Boeing of data transmissions (via ground station or SATCOM). These include RR, who have confirmed that they received the first two normal transmissions.

toffeez 14th Mar 2014 13:48

bcmpqm
 
"Could MH370, if it had been flying for 4-5 hours have successfully landed on a 4500' runway at sea level?"

Yes, but it would have to be a real pilot with some practice at same.


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