Bomb in shoe joke lands AF pilot in hot water
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Bomb in shoe joke lands AF pilot in hot water
Kind of a stupid thing to do in these jittery times, even though it was a joke. Professional pilots should not joke when it comes to security people with empty craniums. The following from BBC.
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Pilot held over air 'joke'
The Paris-bound flight was delayed as a result of the incident
An Air France pilot has been arrested at New York's John F Kennedy Airport after reportedly joking at a security checkpoint that he had a bomb in his shoes.
A Port Authority spokeswoman said the pilot was detained after making what she described as an inappropriate remark.
The pilot, who was not identified, was later charged with falsely reporting an incident. Flight AF009, which had been due to leave New York late on Friday, was delayed as a result and 350 passengers had to stay in local hotels overnight.
The flight eventually left for Paris Charles de Gaulle airport after a new co-pilot flew in from Paris, an Air France spokesman in Paris told BBC News Online.
The airline said the pilot had been arrested following "misinterpreted remarks". A witness told the French news agency AFP that the man had jokingly referred to a bomb in his shoes as he passed through security.
Airport police detained him and he is due to appear before a judge, as early as Sunday, on charges which could result in a jail term of up to 11 years, the agency said.
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Pilot held over air 'joke'
The Paris-bound flight was delayed as a result of the incident
An Air France pilot has been arrested at New York's John F Kennedy Airport after reportedly joking at a security checkpoint that he had a bomb in his shoes.
A Port Authority spokeswoman said the pilot was detained after making what she described as an inappropriate remark.
The pilot, who was not identified, was later charged with falsely reporting an incident. Flight AF009, which had been due to leave New York late on Friday, was delayed as a result and 350 passengers had to stay in local hotels overnight.
The flight eventually left for Paris Charles de Gaulle airport after a new co-pilot flew in from Paris, an Air France spokesman in Paris told BBC News Online.
The airline said the pilot had been arrested following "misinterpreted remarks". A witness told the French news agency AFP that the man had jokingly referred to a bomb in his shoes as he passed through security.
Airport police detained him and he is due to appear before a judge, as early as Sunday, on charges which could result in a jail term of up to 11 years, the agency said.
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I'm less surprised when smart ass idiot civilians, who just don't get it, make these kind of comments in airports, but astounded that a pilot would. What the bloody hell was he thinking?
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A very unprofessional remark if it,s true, and a very over zealous security officer, me thinks a caution from a police officer and a talking too from his (the pilot,s) captain would have done the job, the media loves this kind of behaviour and it will harm our industry no end. I am sure Air France boss,es will not be amused
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Right On Tripower!
Last month while going through security, a novice X-Ray technician zeroed in on my miniature break-apart screwdriver (the same on I have carried for 18+ months and never been stopped for -about 1 inch long). "I'll have to ask the supervisor on this one he said. I gathered up my stuff and wandered over to the super's podium. The super looked at me and gave me a wry smile and said, "I can say something you cannot. The most deadly weapons you have are your hands."
(I wanted to ask him if he had ridden through a couple of my landings....) "You are absolutely right," I said.
Then he added, "Another pilot came through here in uniform with a "tool" and after questioning him I let him go. The guy immediately called the FAA and ratted me out for letting him through with the tool and then they called the TSA and in 15 minutes my ass was on the hotseat." I asked him if he gives this guy a ton of grief everytime he shows up. He certainly deserves it.
It is true: We are sometimes our own worst enemies. Or, as Pogo said, "We have met the enemy and it is us."
Damned fool morons!
PT
Last month while going through security, a novice X-Ray technician zeroed in on my miniature break-apart screwdriver (the same on I have carried for 18+ months and never been stopped for -about 1 inch long). "I'll have to ask the supervisor on this one he said. I gathered up my stuff and wandered over to the super's podium. The super looked at me and gave me a wry smile and said, "I can say something you cannot. The most deadly weapons you have are your hands."
(I wanted to ask him if he had ridden through a couple of my landings....) "You are absolutely right," I said.
Then he added, "Another pilot came through here in uniform with a "tool" and after questioning him I let him go. The guy immediately called the FAA and ratted me out for letting him through with the tool and then they called the TSA and in 15 minutes my ass was on the hotseat." I asked him if he gives this guy a ton of grief everytime he shows up. He certainly deserves it.
It is true: We are sometimes our own worst enemies. Or, as Pogo said, "We have met the enemy and it is us."
Damned fool morons!
PT
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Professional pilots should not joke when it comes to security people with empty craniums.
Am I missing something here? A pilot treats the touchy issue of airline security as a joke (and I'm inclined to write 'with contempt') and it's the security personnel who are the ones with "empty craniums"?
If a passenger had said this "as a joke" I suspect the pilots on this forum would be baying for his blood. Does it only become a harmless joke when it's one of your own?
In any case, why do people still think that the "bomb in the luggage" joke is funny? It's not. It's unoriginal and it's pathetic.
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Shoe in mouth joke
Konkordski,
Don't get your bowels in an uproar. What the pilot did was utterly stupid, but we all know that you don't joke with border guards, immigration officials, or airport security personnel.
What I meant by "empty craniums" is that in the U.S. at least, many of the security people are still about three sandwiches short of a picnic. Even if they are federalized, many are still the same who worked for the private firms and we all know their IQ levels and pay scales.
So, the lesson is, look serious. Don't protest and don't even mention the fact that you have 15 dwarf Kurds in your pocket. Even though that would be an exaggeration, you would probably be put through enough grilling that you would miss your flight and face possible arrest for "willfully" doing something illegal.
In the case of the AF pilot, the company suffered a great deal. It had to put up 350 people in hotels, transport them back and forth and feed them. Plus, they had to fly in another driver. (Can't see why AF didn't have a few reserve pilots on standby at JFK).
Don't get your bowels in an uproar. What the pilot did was utterly stupid, but we all know that you don't joke with border guards, immigration officials, or airport security personnel.
What I meant by "empty craniums" is that in the U.S. at least, many of the security people are still about three sandwiches short of a picnic. Even if they are federalized, many are still the same who worked for the private firms and we all know their IQ levels and pay scales.
So, the lesson is, look serious. Don't protest and don't even mention the fact that you have 15 dwarf Kurds in your pocket. Even though that would be an exaggeration, you would probably be put through enough grilling that you would miss your flight and face possible arrest for "willfully" doing something illegal.
In the case of the AF pilot, the company suffered a great deal. It had to put up 350 people in hotels, transport them back and forth and feed them. Plus, they had to fly in another driver. (Can't see why AF didn't have a few reserve pilots on standby at JFK).
I've only made a few posts so I don't feel the need to order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
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This just goes to prove that the cosmetic security measures that we have in place is being run by moronic imbeciles. If the TSA monkeys can't figure out that the operating crew, in uniform, are trying to be humorous or more likely trying to make a point that the charade of this pathetic security system that's in place then we, collectively as aircrew need to make a point.
How many terrorists have they winkled out with this security? How many terrorists ae going to admit they are carrying a bomb in their shoe? Someone here needs to a real kick up their @rse and it's not the pilot! Some of you who are shrieking with outrage at the foolishness of the pilot are either pompous w@nkers or so far up your own backsides that you have lost the plot.
I would suggest a campaign, preferably organised by IFALPA, that one a given date every one of us who is operating that day, in uniforum, jokes that we have a bomb in our shoe and watch the airline industry grind to a halt within a few hours. You'd soon see the politicians trembling at the outrage from their travelling voters giving them hell over some of the crap we have to put up with every time we try to board our aircraft for work.
If the TSA chimp couldn't figure out that a joke was being made, a joke aimed at the futility of the situation that the pilot doesn't actually need any bomb or weapon to take out his or her aircraft, then that plonker needs their head examining. To insinuate that the pilot faces a possible prison sentence of up to 11 years and all the trouble caused by this joke called the TSA goes to show the absurdity of the situation. As stated in another thread elsewhere, these TSA monkeys think irony is something you prescribe to an anaemic!
Let's see how many pompous idiots jump in here and fail to stand behind this Air France pilot. The rest of us who are pilots should be the first to see the irony of a uniformed pilot reporting for work claiming he has a bomb in his shoe and a sh!t for brain TSA monkey totally missing the point.
How many terrorists have they winkled out with this security? How many terrorists ae going to admit they are carrying a bomb in their shoe? Someone here needs to a real kick up their @rse and it's not the pilot! Some of you who are shrieking with outrage at the foolishness of the pilot are either pompous w@nkers or so far up your own backsides that you have lost the plot.
I would suggest a campaign, preferably organised by IFALPA, that one a given date every one of us who is operating that day, in uniforum, jokes that we have a bomb in our shoe and watch the airline industry grind to a halt within a few hours. You'd soon see the politicians trembling at the outrage from their travelling voters giving them hell over some of the crap we have to put up with every time we try to board our aircraft for work.
If the TSA chimp couldn't figure out that a joke was being made, a joke aimed at the futility of the situation that the pilot doesn't actually need any bomb or weapon to take out his or her aircraft, then that plonker needs their head examining. To insinuate that the pilot faces a possible prison sentence of up to 11 years and all the trouble caused by this joke called the TSA goes to show the absurdity of the situation. As stated in another thread elsewhere, these TSA monkeys think irony is something you prescribe to an anaemic!
Let's see how many pompous idiots jump in here and fail to stand behind this Air France pilot. The rest of us who are pilots should be the first to see the irony of a uniformed pilot reporting for work claiming he has a bomb in his shoe and a sh!t for brain TSA monkey totally missing the point.
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LatviaCalling:
Sorry - nothing personal.
I'm just fuming after coming out of another discussion on the same subject, where everyone seemed ready to crucify the security guard for being a jobsworth and pin a medal on the pilot for his hardship.
Having read your additional comments above, though, I have to say I agree with you.
Maybe what's needed is security guards with a greater vested interest in doing the job properly.
Sorry - nothing personal.
I'm just fuming after coming out of another discussion on the same subject, where everyone seemed ready to crucify the security guard for being a jobsworth and pin a medal on the pilot for his hardship.
Having read your additional comments above, though, I have to say I agree with you.
Maybe what's needed is security guards with a greater vested interest in doing the job properly.
Controversial, moi?
Like many pilots I accept the quite absurd screening that I have to go through with resigned boredom.
I am regularly 'frisked' for setting off the extraordinarily variably sensitive arches that we must pass through. My attire varies little but some I walk through with not a bleep and others go off as though I was armed from head to toe.
What I find quite astonishing is the complete refusal to acknowledge the fact that I don't need a weapon to take control of the aeroplane....I already have control!
It is also a littler irritating to observe a general attitude from those in charge in the US that terrorism is a new phenomenon.
The rest of the world has been dealing with it for decades.
I am regularly 'frisked' for setting off the extraordinarily variably sensitive arches that we must pass through. My attire varies little but some I walk through with not a bleep and others go off as though I was armed from head to toe.
What I find quite astonishing is the complete refusal to acknowledge the fact that I don't need a weapon to take control of the aeroplane....I already have control!
It is also a littler irritating to observe a general attitude from those in charge in the US that terrorism is a new phenomenon.
The rest of the world has been dealing with it for decades.
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Cargo Boy,
I still maintain that it was stupid for the pilot to say he had a bomb in his shoes or shoe. Bells ring and flags go up at those kind of statements. What if he was a terrorist dressed as a pilot with all the credentials?
My second statement was that these security people are not the brightest of the lot, so therefore, I would not joke with them at all. Period.
Konkordsky,
It was the heat of the moment when you use the mail instead of being face to face. Cheers, mate.
I still maintain that it was stupid for the pilot to say he had a bomb in his shoes or shoe. Bells ring and flags go up at those kind of statements. What if he was a terrorist dressed as a pilot with all the credentials?
My second statement was that these security people are not the brightest of the lot, so therefore, I would not joke with them at all. Period.
Konkordsky,
It was the heat of the moment when you use the mail instead of being face to face. Cheers, mate.
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Not exactly the same, but I remember being with a colleague at LHR post 9/11 and we were going through the usual staff security checks on our way to board a flight. Apparently our staplers were very threatening items. We thought it was a joke. Apparently not. Super called. We explained we needed then to staple coupons, whole terminal would grind to halt overwhelmed by bits of loose paper floating about, where on earth can we leave them that's convenient when dashing about from landside to airside? He was very reasonable, and we got through no problem. But it could have been awkward because of an over zealous twit. From that shift on, I thought it more prudent to keep my trap shut infront of them and just get on with it.
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Bomb in shoe
Rolling thunder, you show a great disdain for the fare paying public with your high and mighty comment
. From that I take it that the military are now providing a passenger service!
What company do you fly for? I'll make sure my hard earnt cash doesn't go to it in future.
smart ass idiot civilians
What company do you fly for? I'll make sure my hard earnt cash doesn't go to it in future.
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Maxflyer,
I would have to agree with Rolling Thunder about the "smart ass idiot civilians."
Although I don't pilot my own aircraft anymore, I do fly quite often and it amazes me what these vacationers try to take into the cabin. Samurai swords, switchblades and BB pistols "for my son" who'll be sitting right beside me, so don't worry.
Don't they read newspapers or watch TV to know what is allowed or not. Even at the gate check-in you have the option to drop your metal nail files and scissors into a bag and they will be checked into the hold.
No, these people have no idea what is going on and then start raising hell when an item is taken away from them. I'm sad to say that a colleague of mine bought a 16-piece stainless steeel Solingen knife set at the Hamburg airport and tried to take it aboard.
The bells and whistles went off and the Germans did not confiscate the bootly, but put it into a special Lufthansa bag and sent it downstairs where he collected it in Riga. Others have not been so lucky.
I guess after all this rambling, the point is that the average Joe Shmoe has no bloody idea what airport security is all about, despite the warnings, posters and other information. All he knows is that you better take your pocket change out so it does not activate the buzzer.
I would have to agree with Rolling Thunder about the "smart ass idiot civilians."
Although I don't pilot my own aircraft anymore, I do fly quite often and it amazes me what these vacationers try to take into the cabin. Samurai swords, switchblades and BB pistols "for my son" who'll be sitting right beside me, so don't worry.
Don't they read newspapers or watch TV to know what is allowed or not. Even at the gate check-in you have the option to drop your metal nail files and scissors into a bag and they will be checked into the hold.
No, these people have no idea what is going on and then start raising hell when an item is taken away from them. I'm sad to say that a colleague of mine bought a 16-piece stainless steeel Solingen knife set at the Hamburg airport and tried to take it aboard.
The bells and whistles went off and the Germans did not confiscate the bootly, but put it into a special Lufthansa bag and sent it downstairs where he collected it in Riga. Others have not been so lucky.
I guess after all this rambling, the point is that the average Joe Shmoe has no bloody idea what airport security is all about, despite the warnings, posters and other information. All he knows is that you better take your pocket change out so it does not activate the buzzer.
Moderator
I agree that it is stupid to argue with the goons, and make silly comments whilst in hearing range of them.
My issue is with the fact that we are screened at all.
Out of all of the various employee groups on the airfield, why screen the only employee group that doesn't need a weapon to take over the airplane?
Newhire ramp employees breeze in the back door without so much as a glance from the dreaded tsA, yet, an airline Captain, who is going to take over an airplane (whether or not he has a screwdriver), are walking to work with no shoes on and getting berated by HS dropouts.
Either flightcrew are trusted, or we are not. If we are not trusted, then we should not be given complete control of a potential WMD...........
If we are trusted, then we should not be standing at work in our socks, while a HS dropout rifles our baggage, looking for toiltries and small tools to pilfer.
My issue is with the fact that we are screened at all.
Out of all of the various employee groups on the airfield, why screen the only employee group that doesn't need a weapon to take over the airplane?
Newhire ramp employees breeze in the back door without so much as a glance from the dreaded tsA, yet, an airline Captain, who is going to take over an airplane (whether or not he has a screwdriver), are walking to work with no shoes on and getting berated by HS dropouts.
Either flightcrew are trusted, or we are not. If we are not trusted, then we should not be given complete control of a potential WMD...........
If we are trusted, then we should not be standing at work in our socks, while a HS dropout rifles our baggage, looking for toiltries and small tools to pilfer.
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Tripower455,
Your argument is only valid if a pilot only had access to his/her individual aircraft. Once beyond security gates, that is not the case.
Sure it seems assinine to hassle a pilot over scissors, etc., when he will shortly be sitting next to a fire axe, and in command and control of a passenger-laden craft. But surely you can see how any employee group, if routinely not screened, has the potential to smuggle firearms/explosives for distribution to comrades in the secure area, for taking control of multiple aircraft.
I don't see terrorists and any employee group being mutually exclusive. If ramp employees are for some reason considered such, I fail to see the logic. Especially considering that a would-be terrorist would find it much easier attaining such a job.
Airport security is indeed a bit of a joke, both for ridiculous policies in some cases, as well as having to deal with the rent-a-cop screeners. Same mentality as the as the mall security guard, or nightclub security 'bouncer', etc. ... they love being the big fish in their little pond at times.
Still...noone should be 'trusted' to the point of coming and going as they please.
Your argument is only valid if a pilot only had access to his/her individual aircraft. Once beyond security gates, that is not the case.
Sure it seems assinine to hassle a pilot over scissors, etc., when he will shortly be sitting next to a fire axe, and in command and control of a passenger-laden craft. But surely you can see how any employee group, if routinely not screened, has the potential to smuggle firearms/explosives for distribution to comrades in the secure area, for taking control of multiple aircraft.
I don't see terrorists and any employee group being mutually exclusive. If ramp employees are for some reason considered such, I fail to see the logic. Especially considering that a would-be terrorist would find it much easier attaining such a job.
Airport security is indeed a bit of a joke, both for ridiculous policies in some cases, as well as having to deal with the rent-a-cop screeners. Same mentality as the as the mall security guard, or nightclub security 'bouncer', etc. ... they love being the big fish in their little pond at times.
Still...noone should be 'trusted' to the point of coming and going as they please.
Everything is under control.
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Maxflyer, I don't think Rolling thunder is intending to show great disdain toward all the flying public. I think he (or she) refers to some, and I would agree. A few passengers, indeed, have their act together. Rolling thunder has been a helpful contributor in the Passengers and SLF forum.
Last edited by Eboy; 10th Aug 2003 at 10:55.
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Indeed. I have great respect for the vast majority of pax. They do indeed pay for all our operations. It is the few idiots that I have no patience for anymore because they never seem to learn and are always out there. "Civilian" in this context is meant as non-staff.
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Rollingthunder
I'm less surprised when smart ass idiot civilians (non-staff) , who just don't get it, make these kind of comments in airports, but astounded that a pilot would. What the bloody hell was he thinking
Ahhh, so there you have it. You just found out pilots are as dumb as any commoner.
Take’m off the high pedestal you put them on and you’ll discover their **** stinks just like yours.
Last edited by prattbrat; 10th Aug 2003 at 11:34.
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Cargo Boy
Your remarks are right on the money, perfect comments, 10/10.
I make my crust as a security consultant, mainly in third world countries with various terrorist and other problems.
Business is good enough to keep my expensive personal twin prop in the air, even at SE Asia maintenance rates.
The enemy of good security is lack of imagination, lateral thinking, and prompt decisive individual action at the right times.
Most of the TSA screeners fall well short of that standard I am afraid.
I was astounded last year at Miami Intl to see a United Captain getting turned over big style at the security point. I asked the screener if he really thought that the captain was a terrorist, and even if he was, what was the point of searching him for a weapon as he would shortly be flying it
In fact I had a sudden humerous image of the captain pulling out a gun, holding it against his head and saying "take me to Cuba or the skygod gets it !!!!!!
Of course the reaction of the screener was
One final point, when they start arming crew (another strange manoevre), I hope they remember to tell the screeners or there could be a few shocks at security
robmac
Your remarks are right on the money, perfect comments, 10/10.
I make my crust as a security consultant, mainly in third world countries with various terrorist and other problems.
Business is good enough to keep my expensive personal twin prop in the air, even at SE Asia maintenance rates.
The enemy of good security is lack of imagination, lateral thinking, and prompt decisive individual action at the right times.
Most of the TSA screeners fall well short of that standard I am afraid.
I was astounded last year at Miami Intl to see a United Captain getting turned over big style at the security point. I asked the screener if he really thought that the captain was a terrorist, and even if he was, what was the point of searching him for a weapon as he would shortly be flying it
In fact I had a sudden humerous image of the captain pulling out a gun, holding it against his head and saying "take me to Cuba or the skygod gets it !!!!!!
Of course the reaction of the screener was
One final point, when they start arming crew (another strange manoevre), I hope they remember to tell the screeners or there could be a few shocks at security
robmac