bmi moves to Belfast Harbour
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Controller Friendly
I think that ATC - pilot relationships are always very good.
PPrune is all about having opinions but I am surprised that you seem to have some very negative views towards bmi and their move to BHD. If it is right that you are employed by NATS, do you have a dislike to the company or is it just a genuine neutral view that you think bmi are making a commercial mistake?
ES
I think that ATC - pilot relationships are always very good.
PPrune is all about having opinions but I am surprised that you seem to have some very negative views towards bmi and their move to BHD. If it is right that you are employed by NATS, do you have a dislike to the company or is it just a genuine neutral view that you think bmi are making a commercial mistake?
ES
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Electric Sky
As Keep It Lit has said i have no problems about bmi moving to BHD.
I do however,like yourself,wonder if it is the smartest move in the world.
Some people thought i had a problem when i was only stating what i knew was fact about what happens or certainly has happened in the past at BHD.While many bmi staff have gone to great pains to point out that the bus will have no problems on an 1829m runway, i personally for what it's worth think it does not leave much room for error.
Also as someone who once upon a time knelt on runway 22 at BHD with a plastic school issue ruler measuring snow....well what can i say.I also remember A JEA crew after getting a windshear report stating 'fog at LBA windshear at BHD,typical day then'
I have no problems with bmi in fact if i was ever going to Heathrow,they were always my first choice which now leads me on to my last point.It was stated i think by Kiwi that 60% of NI's population is within 15miles of BHD,first of all as BHD & BFS are only 12miles apart,then surely the same also stands for BFS.But the road structure in NI is horrendous to say the least & as BHD is for most the far side of Belfast,i think alot of people are just going to stick to the country roads & use BFS.
Unfortunately since bmi changed their corporate image they also seem to have forgotten that they too,once upon a time, were the one that was getting the cheap deal into BFS!
I think is is very sad that for a company who had such a long standing relationship with BFS that it has come to this
But,like you, i'm not so sure who will really suffer in the long term 
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: controller friendly ]
As Keep It Lit has said i have no problems about bmi moving to BHD.
I do however,like yourself,wonder if it is the smartest move in the world.
Some people thought i had a problem when i was only stating what i knew was fact about what happens or certainly has happened in the past at BHD.While many bmi staff have gone to great pains to point out that the bus will have no problems on an 1829m runway, i personally for what it's worth think it does not leave much room for error.
Also as someone who once upon a time knelt on runway 22 at BHD with a plastic school issue ruler measuring snow....well what can i say.I also remember A JEA crew after getting a windshear report stating 'fog at LBA windshear at BHD,typical day then'
I have no problems with bmi in fact if i was ever going to Heathrow,they were always my first choice which now leads me on to my last point.It was stated i think by Kiwi that 60% of NI's population is within 15miles of BHD,first of all as BHD & BFS are only 12miles apart,then surely the same also stands for BFS.But the road structure in NI is horrendous to say the least & as BHD is for most the far side of Belfast,i think alot of people are just going to stick to the country roads & use BFS.
Unfortunately since bmi changed their corporate image they also seem to have forgotten that they too,once upon a time, were the one that was getting the cheap deal into BFS!
I think is is very sad that for a company who had such a long standing relationship with BFS that it has come to this
But,like you, i'm not so sure who will really suffer in the long term [ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: controller friendly ]
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What was the cause of the go around on 17 for,I didint hear?
A BFS/BHD bash is a good idea,need good notice for the roster but I know a few up for that
Speak later got to go.(mirror time)
Rgds K.I.L.
A BFS/BHD bash is a good idea,need good notice for the roster but I know a few up for that
Speak later got to go.(mirror time)
Rgds K.I.L.
Controller Friendly,
YEE-HA! A bash in Belfast, let me know in advance so I can be sure I'm home.
Back to the original point of this thread, wouldn't really fancy trying to put a minibus onto BHD in the p*ssing rain and howling wind, and I could also see BA's figures start to recover once the move takes place. I know my usual taxi driver prefers to avoid the hassle of the Westlink, M3, and Sydenham carpark!!!
Speak to you soon kid!
ps what a bad result last night...still in mourning
YEE-HA! A bash in Belfast, let me know in advance so I can be sure I'm home.
Back to the original point of this thread, wouldn't really fancy trying to put a minibus onto BHD in the p*ssing rain and howling wind, and I could also see BA's figures start to recover once the move takes place. I know my usual taxi driver prefers to avoid the hassle of the Westlink, M3, and Sydenham carpark!!!
Speak to you soon kid!
ps what a bad result last night...still in mourning
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Fascinating to hear about expansion of BHD!!!
I was with JEA until 1994. When I left to go to pastures greener, I sent in a voyage report about the state of the runway. Even then it could hardly handle the ever increasing thump of the 146. I can't imagine anyone took me seriously and upgraded the runway. After a couple of months of airbus landings ( which I seem to recall are double the weight of a 146) the runway will turn into a copy of the Thessalonika ramp - that is to say full of cracks and holes.
Anyone know if they've thought of that?
I was with JEA until 1994. When I left to go to pastures greener, I sent in a voyage report about the state of the runway. Even then it could hardly handle the ever increasing thump of the 146. I can't imagine anyone took me seriously and upgraded the runway. After a couple of months of airbus landings ( which I seem to recall are double the weight of a 146) the runway will turn into a copy of the Thessalonika ramp - that is to say full of cracks and holes.
Anyone know if they've thought of that?
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Fair points. I thought that you might have had some grievance with bmi but obviously that is not the case. The comment I agree with most is that it is very sad for both parties that it has come to this. Only time will tell if it is wise for bmi but my view is that although you state that BM once had it cheap at BFS as well, with competition so high today the company was left with little choice if they are being charged 3 times as much as some of their competitors. A slight bit more for the use of airbridges etc is acceptable but not to that extent. They did try to negotiate this with TBI but to no avail and I don't think that TBI ever expected bmi to pull out. I have worked it out and I think that an A321 can operate full from/to BHD but as many have said there is little margin for error and I wouldn't like to do it in a howling crosswind.
At least the cracks and holes in the runway allow for good drainage
ES
Fair points. I thought that you might have had some grievance with bmi but obviously that is not the case. The comment I agree with most is that it is very sad for both parties that it has come to this. Only time will tell if it is wise for bmi but my view is that although you state that BM once had it cheap at BFS as well, with competition so high today the company was left with little choice if they are being charged 3 times as much as some of their competitors. A slight bit more for the use of airbridges etc is acceptable but not to that extent. They did try to negotiate this with TBI but to no avail and I don't think that TBI ever expected bmi to pull out. I have worked it out and I think that an A321 can operate full from/to BHD but as many have said there is little margin for error and I wouldn't like to do it in a howling crosswind.
At least the cracks and holes in the runway allow for good drainage
ES
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Electric,
Just for info the A321 can take a Full Load out of BHD and enough fuel to get to Madrid or its just under 74 ton takeoff Mass with a flex of 45C
Me thinks thats a dame fine performance.
Rgds K.I.L.
P.S. Friendly whats the expected Block Alt on the new SIDs.
Just for info the A321 can take a Full Load out of BHD and enough fuel to get to Madrid or its just under 74 ton takeoff Mass with a flex of 45C
Me thinks thats a dame fine performance.
Rgds K.I.L.
P.S. Friendly whats the expected Block Alt on the new SIDs.
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K.I.L I can appreciate your desire to operate from the wee airport being much closer to home but give it a month or two and you'll wish for the 2800 of proper tarmac up the road as opposed to 1800 of slippy concrete.
For Real. Aye.
For Real. Aye.
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Carlos,
Having worked out of BHD for 3 years knowing all the little problems I dont think they will change my mind.
But I can see your point,looking at the A/C you fly
Rdgs K.I.L.
[ 24 August 2001: Message edited by: keepitlit ]
[ 24 August 2001: Message edited by: keepitlit ]
Having worked out of BHD for 3 years knowing all the little problems I dont think they will change my mind.
But I can see your point,looking at the A/C you fly
Rdgs K.I.L.
[ 24 August 2001: Message edited by: keepitlit ]
[ 24 August 2001: Message edited by: keepitlit ]
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Never mind the performance criteria. what about the economics? I hear that the MOD are concerned about their many thousands of pax (soldiers and families) who currently use bmi having to use the less secure BHD. Perhaps we'll see a load more VC10s back at Aldergrove or perhaps easy will put some nice roundels on the fuse - OHMS.
Also another rumour going round is that two large NI corporate users have indicated to bmi that they aren't too chuffed about the move either. And finally, (allegedly) the travel trade have been told to restrict sales to less than 133 pax - so it's not likely to be a 'bus.
Now all that plus the fact bmi are only offering 7/8 of their existing capacity - it doesn't seem to stack up. Sir Michael must be sorely steamed - perhaps that's why the COO and the Service Director went (?).
Also another rumour going round is that two large NI corporate users have indicated to bmi that they aren't too chuffed about the move either. And finally, (allegedly) the travel trade have been told to restrict sales to less than 133 pax - so it's not likely to be a 'bus.
Now all that plus the fact bmi are only offering 7/8 of their existing capacity - it doesn't seem to stack up. Sir Michael must be sorely steamed - perhaps that's why the COO and the Service Director went (?).
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Word has it they downgraded from 321 to 320. Can't see a 737 being used..that really would set a cat amongst the pigeons especially with the LHR based guys that Join and Terminate.
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Just a few pionts to add.
1."so it's not likely to be a 'bus".
Wrong,I have a copy of the program at hand and the 73 isnt on it.It will be used sometimes,when the bus is taken off for charters etc and the London rotation is still a 320.
2. I know of 2 146s....short field..."
Would you call 17 at BFS a REAL short field ?
Check out its distances avil!
3.As for the J/T people
We just go where the cards are delt and be grateful for the extra nights at home.
We still dont have the comfort of a base in BFS/BHD.That I can only dream of,in the mean time I'll just enjoy doing something that someone else is willing to give me money for.
1."so it's not likely to be a 'bus".
Wrong,I have a copy of the program at hand and the 73 isnt on it.It will be used sometimes,when the bus is taken off for charters etc and the London rotation is still a 320.
2. I know of 2 146s....short field..."
Would you call 17 at BFS a REAL short field ?
Check out its distances avil!
3.As for the J/T people
We just go where the cards are delt and be grateful for the extra nights at home.
We still dont have the comfort of a base in BFS/BHD.That I can only dream of,in the mean time I'll just enjoy doing something that someone else is willing to give me money for.
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Keepitlit: glad to see you missing the point yet again! When barcode said “I know of at least 2 over-runs by 146s at BHD (and they're designed for REAL short fields)” I could see no implication that BHD was a short field, merely a statement of what the 146 was designed for and another statement of historically what had happened at BHD (the Capital 146 and the JEA 146).
However, as far as R/W 17 at Aldergrove is concerned, it is about the same length as 22/04 at City, but 17 is not normally used with the wind 90 degrees across the runway at 30 knots. The runway surfaces at Aldergrove are also of considerably higher quality than at City; I know where I would rather take my chances on a dark, wet night.
Finally, while we’re on the subject of crosswinds, a question: do the bmi First Officers have the same crosswind limit as the Captains?
However, as far as R/W 17 at Aldergrove is concerned, it is about the same length as 22/04 at City, but 17 is not normally used with the wind 90 degrees across the runway at 30 knots. The runway surfaces at Aldergrove are also of considerably higher quality than at City; I know where I would rather take my chances on a dark, wet night.
Finally, while we’re on the subject of crosswinds, a question: do the bmi First Officers have the same crosswind limit as the Captains?
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K.I.L.
As far as i'm aware,we will be climbing to 80 & scottish descending to 90.This is what some of our guys at the top have been trying to negotiate anyway.It's certainly an improvement from 6 & 7 which i believe was originally on the table,but nothing firm has been decided,i don't think that will happen til after the trial at the end of the year.
The departures won't actually be SID's but PDR's(Preferential Departure Routes)as apparently we would need another DME in NI before they can be classed as SID's.Mind you the amount of pilots who tell me they are departing on a standard LISBO departure..... there aint no such thing!
I believe we will be issuing clearances in the same way to BHD,though i may be wrong on that one,time will tell.
The whole point of this is to stop the crossover at the IOM when BFS are on 07 not progress as some may think!
If i hear anymore i will let you know
Now i'm bored with this whole subject, what about that Belfast bash,i was thinking maybe October/November time,do you think anyone will be brave enough to show up
[ 25 August 2001: Message edited by: controller friendly ]
As far as i'm aware,we will be climbing to 80 & scottish descending to 90.This is what some of our guys at the top have been trying to negotiate anyway.It's certainly an improvement from 6 & 7 which i believe was originally on the table,but nothing firm has been decided,i don't think that will happen til after the trial at the end of the year.
The departures won't actually be SID's but PDR's(Preferential Departure Routes)as apparently we would need another DME in NI before they can be classed as SID's.Mind you the amount of pilots who tell me they are departing on a standard LISBO departure..... there aint no such thing!
I believe we will be issuing clearances in the same way to BHD,though i may be wrong on that one,time will tell.
The whole point of this is to stop the crossover at the IOM when BFS are on 07 not progress as some may think!
If i hear anymore i will let you know
Now i'm bored with this whole subject, what about that Belfast bash,i was thinking maybe October/November time,do you think anyone will be brave enough to show up
[ 25 August 2001: Message edited by: controller friendly ]
