pilots against hours increase
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The answer has to come from the EU. There is no way that the national goverment or the CAA will go it alone on introducing better conditions. We get a lot of noise from BALPA but no achievements, what we need is a high profile campaign to highlite the problems. Air 2000 have got a revised scheduling agreement that devotes lots of space to defining days of etc, but can only fiddle at the margins trying to avoid roster disruption, it is full of holes that allows the company to do what it likes. It doesn't address the real problems of hours worked and subsequent fatigue. I fear that until we have a real upset due to fatigue the politicians will keep their heads in the sand.
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Rat 5, well said. I couldn't agree more.
Our problem is that it's very difficult to get anyone to listen unless they've actually done the job. Even professional pilots in other types of flying don't appreciate just how absolutely f***ed is the average UK short haul pilot.
There's a huge gulf between the perception of our lifestyle and the reality. Somehow, this needs to be addressed. We need a concerted, ongoing media campaign to highilight the truth. Is the new BALPA leadership up for this?
It's the total lack of commensense in the FTL's that really gets to me. I'm angry now just thinking about it. A job with huge responsibility, demanding good motor skills as well as management ability, and we're expected to work longer and on crazy shift patterns than the average office worker? It's mind boggling.
Our problem is that it's very difficult to get anyone to listen unless they've actually done the job. Even professional pilots in other types of flying don't appreciate just how absolutely f***ed is the average UK short haul pilot.
There's a huge gulf between the perception of our lifestyle and the reality. Somehow, this needs to be addressed. We need a concerted, ongoing media campaign to highilight the truth. Is the new BALPA leadership up for this?
It's the total lack of commensense in the FTL's that really gets to me. I'm angry now just thinking about it. A job with huge responsibility, demanding good motor skills as well as management ability, and we're expected to work longer and on crazy shift patterns than the average office worker? It's mind boggling.
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Thanks guys:
A couple of folow ups:
I sent a letter of similar thoughts to Bill Archer when he was representing BALPA at the ECA FTL conferences a few years ago. As I had worked under UK, Dutch, Scandinavian and Italian FTL's, both short & long-haul, I felt I had some insight into different EU FTL's. No reply! and it seemed that ECA conference achieved very little, publically.
I read that the Italians might strike in protest at the JAA proposals. That's odd! I worked in Italy and that is one country that will benefit from new limits. That said, it would only be the non-Alitalia pilots. As said before, they had a cushy (i.e. correct) internal cap agreement. In the charters I worked 17 hours day/night duties with 2 pilots, no sector reduction and no time zone allowance. Thus we would fly a schedule of 16.40, 2 sectors across the Atlantic, 24 hours off, then 14.30, 2 sectors home. 1 day off and do it again. 2 pilots. Safe? you've gotta be kidding. heathly? see previious answer. It was not uncommon, in a period of 9 days, to have 3 periods of 24hours with no sleep. When I left, it took me 2 weeks to readjust to phyisical normality. i.e. eat, sleep and s**t at the right times and in the right order.
I agree that there needs to be standardisation. Under the UK FTL's the same duties would have been impossible, by a long chalk. If I remember correctly, the limit out-bound would be 10.30 and the limit return 09.30. Thus the italians had a 7.30 longer limit for that return flight. Wow!
Farnboro' also say avoid rest periods or 18-34 hours. The Italians know better. They have twice the flight time. Thus, in the Caribbean, after 12.30 stick time we had 25hours off. Seems like they had it all wrong in so many ways. AND, they were being sub-chartered into UK to fly trips for UK airlines with UK pax that would be not allowed by local crews. Where was the CAA in all this????
The JAA proposals are very similar to the Dutch, and greater than UK. (guess where the JAA HQ is?) I flew under those FTL's, to the limits. Knackering. KLM, of course, had other rules, and as no-one complained to the RLD, nothing changed. The VNV is the KLM union!!! It did nowt.
I flew under UK FTL's, to the limits on Atlantic and Africa routes. Knackering, as the rosterers worked you to the acclimatised limits on the Atlantic and then slipped in an African trip with no time change, rather than time off at home to recover. They used 3 days in Africa to recover, if you didn't get the s**ts. We were bouncing around the 100hours/28 all the time. IMHO going over it, but then the CAA & Balpa had a strange interpritation of 100hours in 28 days. Never figured it out how I could legally land in JFK with 106, 24 hours off, reduce back to 96, then land in Europe back on 104????? All on the 28th day. But they said it was so.
Finally, as we've all read the short-haulers working to the limits, as I have done, are knackered also. I can confirm that.
So, all in all, the majority of pilots are knackered. The pax were aghast when they asked how long we stayed in Cancun, after 17hours duty to get there, and we answered 24 hours. They thought we were staying the week with them. The same was true on the Banjul trips and many other routes. The pax conception of what we do is still based on the old glamorous BOAC (ah) days. The MP's proberbly use BA long-haul as their yard stick of pilot's lifes. Time they were woken up to reality.
In response to the suggestions of taking management on the jump seat;
In Holland I suggested to the finacial director, and the rosterer, that even with their radios, televisions, microwaves, canteens, large fresh toilets, big cuffy chairs, telephones, potted plants, space to walk about, meal & coffee breaks, they should work my roster for 4 days. Horrors of horrors, and they declined. They wanted a meeting on my day off, I declined, but suggested a meeting befoe my next flight. But, horrors, that was a Saturday, and they don't do weekends!
2nd and last rant over.
Good luck to the bretheren who've stuck it out. The people I feel sorry for are the wannabees lamenting in Flight letters that they can't get an interview. They don'y know what they are missing; someone should tell them. (Majors excluded)
A couple of folow ups:
I sent a letter of similar thoughts to Bill Archer when he was representing BALPA at the ECA FTL conferences a few years ago. As I had worked under UK, Dutch, Scandinavian and Italian FTL's, both short & long-haul, I felt I had some insight into different EU FTL's. No reply! and it seemed that ECA conference achieved very little, publically.
I read that the Italians might strike in protest at the JAA proposals. That's odd! I worked in Italy and that is one country that will benefit from new limits. That said, it would only be the non-Alitalia pilots. As said before, they had a cushy (i.e. correct) internal cap agreement. In the charters I worked 17 hours day/night duties with 2 pilots, no sector reduction and no time zone allowance. Thus we would fly a schedule of 16.40, 2 sectors across the Atlantic, 24 hours off, then 14.30, 2 sectors home. 1 day off and do it again. 2 pilots. Safe? you've gotta be kidding. heathly? see previious answer. It was not uncommon, in a period of 9 days, to have 3 periods of 24hours with no sleep. When I left, it took me 2 weeks to readjust to phyisical normality. i.e. eat, sleep and s**t at the right times and in the right order.
I agree that there needs to be standardisation. Under the UK FTL's the same duties would have been impossible, by a long chalk. If I remember correctly, the limit out-bound would be 10.30 and the limit return 09.30. Thus the italians had a 7.30 longer limit for that return flight. Wow!
Farnboro' also say avoid rest periods or 18-34 hours. The Italians know better. They have twice the flight time. Thus, in the Caribbean, after 12.30 stick time we had 25hours off. Seems like they had it all wrong in so many ways. AND, they were being sub-chartered into UK to fly trips for UK airlines with UK pax that would be not allowed by local crews. Where was the CAA in all this????
The JAA proposals are very similar to the Dutch, and greater than UK. (guess where the JAA HQ is?) I flew under those FTL's, to the limits. Knackering. KLM, of course, had other rules, and as no-one complained to the RLD, nothing changed. The VNV is the KLM union!!! It did nowt.
I flew under UK FTL's, to the limits on Atlantic and Africa routes. Knackering, as the rosterers worked you to the acclimatised limits on the Atlantic and then slipped in an African trip with no time change, rather than time off at home to recover. They used 3 days in Africa to recover, if you didn't get the s**ts. We were bouncing around the 100hours/28 all the time. IMHO going over it, but then the CAA & Balpa had a strange interpritation of 100hours in 28 days. Never figured it out how I could legally land in JFK with 106, 24 hours off, reduce back to 96, then land in Europe back on 104????? All on the 28th day. But they said it was so.
Finally, as we've all read the short-haulers working to the limits, as I have done, are knackered also. I can confirm that.
So, all in all, the majority of pilots are knackered. The pax were aghast when they asked how long we stayed in Cancun, after 17hours duty to get there, and we answered 24 hours. They thought we were staying the week with them. The same was true on the Banjul trips and many other routes. The pax conception of what we do is still based on the old glamorous BOAC (ah) days. The MP's proberbly use BA long-haul as their yard stick of pilot's lifes. Time they were woken up to reality.
In response to the suggestions of taking management on the jump seat;
In Holland I suggested to the finacial director, and the rosterer, that even with their radios, televisions, microwaves, canteens, large fresh toilets, big cuffy chairs, telephones, potted plants, space to walk about, meal & coffee breaks, they should work my roster for 4 days. Horrors of horrors, and they declined. They wanted a meeting on my day off, I declined, but suggested a meeting befoe my next flight. But, horrors, that was a Saturday, and they don't do weekends!
2nd and last rant over.
Good luck to the bretheren who've stuck it out. The people I feel sorry for are the wannabees lamenting in Flight letters that they can't get an interview. They don'y know what they are missing; someone should tell them. (Majors excluded)
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Ladies and Gents
As a self confessed groundie, whos shift takes him from daylight to darkness every 16 days.
(... and with no stir factor intended)
How does BUPA stand?
Could someone plse confirm how the bill started? interested, thats all.
In over 15 years of short haul flying Ops, I have had very few cases of fatigue sickness. I have more fingers than cases. I do not doubt the work is hard, plse do not get me wrong. Every case of (claimed) fatigue has been notified PRE rest period.
In that time I have seen the traditional CAP371, JAR ops based FTLS and those turned upside-down for night freight.
Pure opinion, every time fatigue is an issue, but the complainant is prepared to drive 2Hrs home? What rules, what liability.
As for crew prepared to sit in a car park one hour away from base for 9 hours of standby, to be called out after eight, fly for 6, and drive 2 hrs home. Self induced fatigue.
Please do not get me wrong, 100% flight safety is mandatory. Help yourselves to help yourselves.
Whatever, FLY SAFE AND STRAIGHT.
Bored
PS, Living 4 miles from my ground base, I take the bus, hassle factor high, put my life in the hands of the driner, but never put the key in the door and think i do not remember driving home. That did become the case!
As a self confessed groundie, whos shift takes him from daylight to darkness every 16 days.
(... and with no stir factor intended)
How does BUPA stand?
Could someone plse confirm how the bill started? interested, thats all.
In over 15 years of short haul flying Ops, I have had very few cases of fatigue sickness. I have more fingers than cases. I do not doubt the work is hard, plse do not get me wrong. Every case of (claimed) fatigue has been notified PRE rest period.
In that time I have seen the traditional CAP371, JAR ops based FTLS and those turned upside-down for night freight.
Pure opinion, every time fatigue is an issue, but the complainant is prepared to drive 2Hrs home? What rules, what liability.
As for crew prepared to sit in a car park one hour away from base for 9 hours of standby, to be called out after eight, fly for 6, and drive 2 hrs home. Self induced fatigue.
Please do not get me wrong, 100% flight safety is mandatory. Help yourselves to help yourselves.
Whatever, FLY SAFE AND STRAIGHT.
Bored
PS, Living 4 miles from my ground base, I take the bus, hassle factor high, put my life in the hands of the driner, but never put the key in the door and think i do not remember driving home. That did become the case!
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RAT 5. I must congratulate you on your posts, they are truly inspiring and very much to the point of what it's all about that the flying public doesn't know and the airline management doesn't either care or want to know. It is truly a RAT's 5 race and it seems nobody gives a RAT's 5 'bottom'. In my company (M.E.) they now want to do fatique research, for what I wonder. To prove humans are made to sleep at night or. . . .how to convert pilots into autopilots and problem solved instantly. Still even outside the fact the EU FTL gives to many options, it still is far better then most FTL's are now and another thing, rostering and crew planning also play a huge roll in this. They can roster you to dead meat within limits (including all pax of course) just by giving multiple nightflights with some day trips in between, just lovely!
Or if given the chance they can give you sort of a 'life' (before early death). And then the constant & continuing wining of "we are very short of crew" really get's to me by now. (Was just now called out on stby for 2 night flights, I was probably challenging the gods too much on this topic) Anyway I've flown for over 20 years now and am trying to get out, starting a business and with succes I may say. I will probably have less income but I will have a LIFE, and see my daughter become a mom. Flying airplanes is great but the airlines now a days have squeezed all the fun out of it, because fun is not profitable and so doesn't please the share holders. Share holders, by the way, are now a days a company's most important asset, maybe most employees didn't know this yet.
Anyway, better go to bed now before my night fight or should I wait a bit and then. . . . . Recognize this dilemma?
Keep writing the good stuff RAT 5!
Or if given the chance they can give you sort of a 'life' (before early death). And then the constant & continuing wining of "we are very short of crew" really get's to me by now. (Was just now called out on stby for 2 night flights, I was probably challenging the gods too much on this topic) Anyway I've flown for over 20 years now and am trying to get out, starting a business and with succes I may say. I will probably have less income but I will have a LIFE, and see my daughter become a mom. Flying airplanes is great but the airlines now a days have squeezed all the fun out of it, because fun is not profitable and so doesn't please the share holders. Share holders, by the way, are now a days a company's most important asset, maybe most employees didn't know this yet.
Anyway, better go to bed now before my night fight or should I wait a bit and then. . . . . Recognize this dilemma?
Keep writing the good stuff RAT 5!
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The fact that the EU are even proposing worse conditions shows how innefective we have been in getting the message across. BALPA have been a total waste of time and have now further demeaned themselves by leaping in with nonsence ststements. As has been previously mentioned, they crow about company agreements which in terms of fatigue relief are useless and which the companies are only to happy to accept. We need effective political lobbying.
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RAT 5,
The italian unions have woken up only after Volare started flying Alitalia flights (code-sharing).Before they couldn't care less.As I warned before,all the EU (JAR) pilots should care because Volare flies to EU, UK included,have great plans for the future (low cost etc) and have the local union (ANVA) in their pocket.
We need a plan of action and we are late.
The italian unions have woken up only after Volare started flying Alitalia flights (code-sharing).Before they couldn't care less.As I warned before,all the EU (JAR) pilots should care because Volare flies to EU, UK included,have great plans for the future (low cost etc) and have the local union (ANVA) in their pocket.
We need a plan of action and we are late.
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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Seriph,
Are you going to tell us what YOU have done about it. You might start by letting us know whether you are a member of BALPA and moaning about YOUR Union or just taking the benefits and moaning from the outside.
I can tell you that Merv Granshaw has been working extremely hard to get something sorted. BALPA at the end of the day is not about 81 New Road but about every pilot in the UK and what he does and DOESN’T do to back it up.
Are you going to tell us what YOU have done about it. You might start by letting us know whether you are a member of BALPA and moaning about YOUR Union or just taking the benefits and moaning from the outside.
I can tell you that Merv Granshaw has been working extremely hard to get something sorted. BALPA at the end of the day is not about 81 New Road but about every pilot in the UK and what he does and DOESN’T do to back it up.
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boredcounter, you say:
well, what would you like he/she to do? Find public transport at all times of the day or night? Lets face it, impossible. Stay in the car and sleep? Then drive home in time to turn round and come back to the airport? Go sick every time?
What your implying just doesn't correspond to the real situation we face as pilots doing the job. After working your butt off for a company and maybe being away from home for a while, you want to get home to your own bed, end of story. That's why people drive home! And anyway, you can't help thinking angrily when your faced with this situation, "if the company thinks it's ok for me to go into discretion and be responsible for tens of millions of pounds worth of machinery and hundreds of lives in the air and on the ground, then I'm f****ng well ok to drive myself home!
". Like it or not, that's the mindset that crap rostering produces.
You also say:
People do not go sick "fatigued" because the usual reply from crewing is "are you refusing to fly?" Then "well, its legal." Next comes the phone call from a pilot manager asking you why you're fatigued when other pilots have flown exactly the same duty and they haven't reported "fatigued". A load of unneccessary hassle and bull**** I think you'd agree, especially when the reason you're phoning in "fatigued" is because your bloody knackered!! Add to this the fact that this is probably not a one off event, but a rostering pattern that repeats itself again and again, and you'll see why pilots just "go sick" instead of "fatigued".
Anyway, you prove my point about the companies attitude to the word "fatigue" in your own posting.
Why do you use the word "claimed" in brackets? Seems to me your implication is that you don't actually believe these cases of fatigue. QED.
Pure opinion, every time fatigue is an issue, but the complainant is prepared to drive 2Hrs home?
What your implying just doesn't correspond to the real situation we face as pilots doing the job. After working your butt off for a company and maybe being away from home for a while, you want to get home to your own bed, end of story. That's why people drive home! And anyway, you can't help thinking angrily when your faced with this situation, "if the company thinks it's ok for me to go into discretion and be responsible for tens of millions of pounds worth of machinery and hundreds of lives in the air and on the ground, then I'm f****ng well ok to drive myself home!
". Like it or not, that's the mindset that crap rostering produces.You also say:
In over 15 years of short haul flying Ops, I have had very few cases of fatigue sickness. I have more fingers than cases. I do not doubt the work is hard, plse do not get me wrong. Every case of (claimed) fatigue has been notified PRE rest period.
Anyway, you prove my point about the companies attitude to the word "fatigue" in your own posting.
Every case of (claimed) fatigue has been notified PRE rest period.
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Bob
I am required to work 55 hours per week and up to 60 hours when unforeseen delays occur. Office workers only do that if they have signed away their legal protection. I can be rostered to work 7 days in a row.
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Perhaps we should all now push for a 35/40 hour week !
Total duty time and not flight time. This would bring us in line with most of the other sectors of industry.
I'm sure there will be howls of protest from the various management departments but by the time the negoitiations were done and dusted, we will probably end up with a compromise of say, a 45 hour week; again total duty time only, with absolutly no extentions in anyway shape or form as they are already abusing that clause.
If the crewing departments call "unfair, we don't have enough crews" then either sack 'em and put some one in the crewing departments that can do the job without taking the easy option all the time; or hire more flight/cabin crews or both !
There are some very good crewing/schedulers out there(we have had a few in the past ) but unfortunately they are normally treated as badly as ourselves and of course end up moving on aswell.
Flight Safety is no accident and must be of paramount importance .
Fatigued crews are just a disaster waiting to happen.
Total duty time and not flight time. This would bring us in line with most of the other sectors of industry.
I'm sure there will be howls of protest from the various management departments but by the time the negoitiations were done and dusted, we will probably end up with a compromise of say, a 45 hour week; again total duty time only, with absolutly no extentions in anyway shape or form as they are already abusing that clause.
If the crewing departments call "unfair, we don't have enough crews" then either sack 'em and put some one in the crewing departments that can do the job without taking the easy option all the time; or hire more flight/cabin crews or both !
There are some very good crewing/schedulers out there(we have had a few in the past ) but unfortunately they are normally treated as badly as ourselves and of course end up moving on aswell.
Flight Safety is no accident and must be of paramount importance .
Fatigued crews are just a disaster waiting to happen.
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The coals are on the fire, the pressure's rising, the train's a rollin' and I've just finished Sunday lunch. Good on ya', guys. Hck!
I had a friend in ATC at a major airport. Their T's & C's were Ok but not the best. The local regional ATC unit was short staffed. They paid more. There was a hidden agreement against poaching. What happened? There was a sick-out. My friend was visited by the company doctor who could find nothing wrong. My friend said he was fatigued and asked the doctor to sign a note saying he was fit to work. "No way", said the doctor and left him alone.
The ANO says that a crew member must not report for duty if they believe they are not fit to start AND COMPLETE the duty. It is their call. not crewing, nor the flight manager. Next time you are pressurised to report, ask for it in writing. I appreciate it is difficult for lower ranks, but I hope the unions and EU labour laws will give some protection.
It has long been said that pilots are their own worst enemies. What about a blockade of LHR and all major airports, a la French farmers. It's amazing how the crews came onto the streets when Laker and others went bust; surely this is more important? Where is the passion?
Stelios was at Brussels HQ with his orange brigade to combat anti-competition. Lots of TV and newspaper headlines. Branson had similiar tactics. That was so they could make more money on the backs of us. Where are we in the campaign for ourselves?
Sorry Guys, but while I'm on a roll; and truely, I'm off to bed in a Mo';
All this rubbish about 7&2, 5&3, 6&4 etc rosters. I, and my ex-colleagues still do, used to get out of bed at 04.00, come home at 02.00 and be away from home more often than be at home, work most weekends, and that was short-haul.
However, the C.P. said we didn't work shifts so didn't deserve compensation. The office staff only had 8 days off/28, only had 4 weeks holiday, so we got the same. Hm?!?
The "shift workers" in Ops, crewing and tech' did 2 days, 2 nights 4 off. That is the norm for shift workers in many industries. Now, with an efficient rostering scheme there is no question that crews could produce the required productivity on such a pattern. It would be wonderful, I'm sure. Hell, the Ryanair guys are full of joy at 5&3, so I assume this would be even better??
What about it, JAA?
I had a friend in ATC at a major airport. Their T's & C's were Ok but not the best. The local regional ATC unit was short staffed. They paid more. There was a hidden agreement against poaching. What happened? There was a sick-out. My friend was visited by the company doctor who could find nothing wrong. My friend said he was fatigued and asked the doctor to sign a note saying he was fit to work. "No way", said the doctor and left him alone.
The ANO says that a crew member must not report for duty if they believe they are not fit to start AND COMPLETE the duty. It is their call. not crewing, nor the flight manager. Next time you are pressurised to report, ask for it in writing. I appreciate it is difficult for lower ranks, but I hope the unions and EU labour laws will give some protection.
It has long been said that pilots are their own worst enemies. What about a blockade of LHR and all major airports, a la French farmers. It's amazing how the crews came onto the streets when Laker and others went bust; surely this is more important? Where is the passion?
Stelios was at Brussels HQ with his orange brigade to combat anti-competition. Lots of TV and newspaper headlines. Branson had similiar tactics. That was so they could make more money on the backs of us. Where are we in the campaign for ourselves?
Sorry Guys, but while I'm on a roll; and truely, I'm off to bed in a Mo';
All this rubbish about 7&2, 5&3, 6&4 etc rosters. I, and my ex-colleagues still do, used to get out of bed at 04.00, come home at 02.00 and be away from home more often than be at home, work most weekends, and that was short-haul.
However, the C.P. said we didn't work shifts so didn't deserve compensation. The office staff only had 8 days off/28, only had 4 weeks holiday, so we got the same. Hm?!?
The "shift workers" in Ops, crewing and tech' did 2 days, 2 nights 4 off. That is the norm for shift workers in many industries. Now, with an efficient rostering scheme there is no question that crews could produce the required productivity on such a pattern. It would be wonderful, I'm sure. Hell, the Ryanair guys are full of joy at 5&3, so I assume this would be even better??
What about it, JAA?
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I'm not moaning about your union Sky9 merely reflecting on their achievements. Simple fact is that regardless of how hard Merv works it's results that count and it's only politicians that will achieve anything. Does BALPA know who its general sec is by the way?
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And...yet again European pilots maoning that the flight/duty times are excessive.
IF you want a 9-5 job, apply at your local bank. Bankers hours are for bankers...you want to be/remain a pilot? Start waking up to the facts that you ARE required to work un-socialable hours, 'tis part on the job, no other excuses acceptable.
Fly or quit, take your choice. Pilots today are a dime a dozen, experienced included.
Some never learn......
IF you want a 9-5 job, apply at your local bank. Bankers hours are for bankers...you want to be/remain a pilot? Start waking up to the facts that you ARE required to work un-socialable hours, 'tis part on the job, no other excuses acceptable.
Fly or quit, take your choice. Pilots today are a dime a dozen, experienced included.
Some never learn......
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OIC Seconded!
Sadly for the bean counters, and perhaps 411A, most of us think there is more to life than having an aluminium tube strapped to your backside for hours on end, eating stodge off your knees, and getting less exercise than the average inmate at an HM custodial institution.
Everything we do during working hours is contrary to good medical advice, even that connected to our own profession. I'm amazed that there has not been any talk of DVT amongst pilots.
And whilst were at it, my 12 year old car, that cost less than 1 tyre of a B757, has better seats than the average Boeing. They are rubbish. But that's another topic.
Meanwhile, if this matter of quality of life is not sorted out, paying into a pension is a waste of money. Why do you think so many of the pilot's pension funds are so rich? Either the premiums have been to high, or retirees have not been living long enough to withdraw their dues. But that is even another topic.
Sadly for the bean counters, and perhaps 411A, most of us think there is more to life than having an aluminium tube strapped to your backside for hours on end, eating stodge off your knees, and getting less exercise than the average inmate at an HM custodial institution.
Everything we do during working hours is contrary to good medical advice, even that connected to our own profession. I'm amazed that there has not been any talk of DVT amongst pilots.
And whilst were at it, my 12 year old car, that cost less than 1 tyre of a B757, has better seats than the average Boeing. They are rubbish. But that's another topic.
Meanwhile, if this matter of quality of life is not sorted out, paying into a pension is a waste of money. Why do you think so many of the pilot's pension funds are so rich? Either the premiums have been to high, or retirees have not been living long enough to withdraw their dues. But that is even another topic.