FlyBE Pilot Exodus!
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From: Planet Earth
just in - just in - just in - just in
back to the topic please
just confirmed two more BHD one-four-six effo's resigned and are leaving destination Orange (their base will be rotated the next few weeks at random however)
just confirmed two more BHD one-four-six effo's resigned and are leaving destination Orange (their base will be rotated the next few weeks at random however)
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From: Planet Earth
a very 2002 way of doing things
quote:
"The way it is supposed to work, is that each Base Captain is invited to attend the Kickstart, and they then cascade the information down to the pilots and cabin crew at their base. It is actually a very 2002 way of doing things, but it relies on managers (ie base captains etc), to cascade the information."
well. to me, it more looks like a very 1950 way of doing things
we have the internet these days, you know, and a proper intranet accessible from home (or the South China Sea internet café) with up to date info is a 2002 way of doing things if you ask me, including rosters and proper 2-way communication
"The way it is supposed to work, is that each Base Captain is invited to attend the Kickstart, and they then cascade the information down to the pilots and cabin crew at their base. It is actually a very 2002 way of doing things, but it relies on managers (ie base captains etc), to cascade the information."
well. to me, it more looks like a very 1950 way of doing things
we have the internet these days, you know, and a proper intranet accessible from home (or the South China Sea internet café) with up to date info is a 2002 way of doing things if you ask me, including rosters and proper 2-way communication
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 14
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From: Snowdonia
Commiserations to all of You CitiExpress guys and girls!
If anybody finds the switch of the tumble dryer down south, don’t hesitate to switch it off!
I order to see light at the end of the tunnel, not only need we switch on the light, but install the damn switch first!
If anybody finds the switch of the tumble dryer down south, don’t hesitate to switch it off!
I order to see light at the end of the tunnel, not only need we switch on the light, but install the damn switch first!
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
From: NZ
Ace Rimmer
I reckon you need to get a grip on reality... haven't laughed so much for years...!!! 
Wrong...
oic
In pure money terms, maybe. I'd miss the variety of all the Cat C places we go though, and I'm not interested in flying my backside off. I prefer to see my wife grow old, and my kids grow up. For me, it isn't primarily about money. I'm quite possibly fairly unusual in that regard.
Also, I was a line trainer within 7 months of joining JEA as it was then- I very much doubt that would happen with Easy, too many people now for that to be likely. If I stay with Flybe, after 8-10 years service I can expect to be a senior IRE/TRE or whatever its called now, not a LTC. The money wouldn't be that different.
Smokie
You didn't actually answer the question (not that I expected you to), but, seriously old chap, you need to leave... you obviously hate it here. I have no idea why you stay (well, perhaps a small idea...)
puddle-jumper
Your reasoning is a stretch... however, there are plenty of experienced people out there who would be more than happy to join us. Don't take my word for it, ask Don how many CVs are currently in the pile. If we don't gain or lose money either way, and the person concerned needs a new type rating, the only experience they bring to the table is general flying experience. Valuable, yes, but there are many others who have that, who are looking for jobs (at the moment).
BTW calculating costs on the basis of salary alone is misleading as it doesn't take into account pensions and other social costs.
And of course you have seen the plan... well, pity you weren't at the kickstart... 
Nav Armed
More chance of flybe buying Air France than that happening...
I reckon you blokes at fly BE need to get a grip of a T/P future
and more D8s than 'puffs.
oic
From the EZ terms and conditions, a line trainer with 5 to 10 years service can look forward to about £80.000 a year (including duty pay), which is substantially more than what you get. A much more comfortable position to be stuck in.
Also, I was a line trainer within 7 months of joining JEA as it was then- I very much doubt that would happen with Easy, too many people now for that to be likely. If I stay with Flybe, after 8-10 years service I can expect to be a senior IRE/TRE or whatever its called now, not a LTC. The money wouldn't be that different.
Smokie
You didn't actually answer the question (not that I expected you to), but, seriously old chap, you need to leave... you obviously hate it here. I have no idea why you stay (well, perhaps a small idea...)
puddle-jumper
Your reasoning is a stretch... however, there are plenty of experienced people out there who would be more than happy to join us. Don't take my word for it, ask Don how many CVs are currently in the pile. If we don't gain or lose money either way, and the person concerned needs a new type rating, the only experience they bring to the table is general flying experience. Valuable, yes, but there are many others who have that, who are looking for jobs (at the moment).
BTW calculating costs on the basis of salary alone is misleading as it doesn't take into account pensions and other social costs.
Thanks for that one, I haven't laughed so much in weeks.
Nav Armed
For FlyBE read CitiExpress
Guest
Posts: n/a
RD,
It's the type experience I was referring to. The amount of recent 146 rated pilots to choose from outside of this company is declining. Don might have allot of C.V.'s from experienced pilots but how many know the 146 well. Encouraging pilots, with years of experience on type, to leave only to replace them with pilots of no type experience in 6 months time for little financial gain doesn't make sense to me. Then again as I was working during the last Kick-butt meeting so I guess I don't have the big picture.
It's the type experience I was referring to. The amount of recent 146 rated pilots to choose from outside of this company is declining. Don might have allot of C.V.'s from experienced pilots but how many know the 146 well. Encouraging pilots, with years of experience on type, to leave only to replace them with pilots of no type experience in 6 months time for little financial gain doesn't make sense to me. Then again as I was working during the last Kick-butt meeting so I guess I don't have the big picture.
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
From: NZ
Sensible Garage
That only works if everybody has a PC. However, it is exactly what we are working towards, much of this information is already on the Intranet, and the recent NOTAC regarding email addresses should give you a clear hint as to where we are going.
Regardless of all that, Base Captains are intended to be more than amenders of manuals and orderers of fax paper. We are supposed to be managers- it is intended to progressively widen the role of the Base Captain.
Some would argue that the appropriate way of briefing staff is in person. I agree with that, which is why I rode a lot of jumpseats explaining Kickstart to various crews after the meeting.
2 BE or not 2 BE
I tried that, but she has quite a left hook... 
puddle-jumper
I hear what you are saying, however most of the pilots who are leaving are relatively new to type (ie a year or so). As in all things, it's a trade-off. I'm not sure there is a simple, 100% correct answer.
Sensible Garage
Happy to, but not on a public forum...
Nav Armed
No, I understood you (more or less). My response caters for both interpretations...
well. to me, it more looks like a very 1950 way of doing things we have the internet these days, you know, and a proper intranet accessible from home (or the South China Sea internet café) with up to date info is a 2002 way of doing things if you ask me, including rosters and proper 2-way communication
Regardless of all that, Base Captains are intended to be more than amenders of manuals and orderers of fax paper. We are supposed to be managers- it is intended to progressively widen the role of the Base Captain.
Some would argue that the appropriate way of briefing staff is in person. I agree with that, which is why I rode a lot of jumpseats explaining Kickstart to various crews after the meeting.
2 BE or not 2 BE
As soon as mine hits 40yrs, I'll trade her in for two 20yr olds
puddle-jumper
Encouraging pilots, with years of experience on type, to leave only to replace them with pilots of no type experience in 6 months time for little financial gain doesn't make sense to me.
Sensible Garage
RD, would you be so kind to enlighten us about these far stretching company fleet development plans?
Nav Armed
I think you misunderstood me. Mass exodus was my point
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: UK
Let them leave... let them all leave.
It opens up fantastic opportunities for those like me who want to stay.
I can't think of many places where I could get a jet command in so short a time. RD is spot-on, stay and you progress a whole lot quicker.
At the end of the day I'd rather be a known individual, a name to the management down in EXT rather than a staff number in Heathrow, Castle Donn or Luton.
It opens up fantastic opportunities for those like me who want to stay.
I can't think of many places where I could get a jet command in so short a time. RD is spot-on, stay and you progress a whole lot quicker.
At the end of the day I'd rather be a known individual, a name to the management down in EXT rather than a staff number in Heathrow, Castle Donn or Luton.
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
From: NZ
That's actually a very good point- we do have a very fair and equitable culture in the company. One of the weaknesses of the Easy approach to its staff is that it is much more open to abuse.
It is also worth noting that the future plan for the airline does not include rolling over and playing dead while the lo-cos take all our pax.
Strolling through the terminal in EDI last night, I was struck by the way Ezy pax all line up at the gate 20 mins before it opens, all getting ready for the mad dash to get the best seats. I must admit that I have a lot of time for the current BA advertising- I have a feeling that the love affair with no-frills might be starting to wear off- and when it does, we stand to do very well indeed.
It is also worth noting that the future plan for the airline does not include rolling over and playing dead while the lo-cos take all our pax.
Strolling through the terminal in EDI last night, I was struck by the way Ezy pax all line up at the gate 20 mins before it opens, all getting ready for the mad dash to get the best seats. I must admit that I have a lot of time for the current BA advertising- I have a feeling that the love affair with no-frills might be starting to wear off- and when it does, we stand to do very well indeed.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,184
Likes: 0
From: USA
Raw Data wrote
thought you lot WERE a low cost airline these days ?
It is also worth noting that the future plan for the airline does not include rolling over and playing dead while the lo-cos take all our pax.
thought you lot WERE a low cost airline these days ?
Wicked Moderator
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 575
Likes: 0
From: I-
Back to the future
It was a looong time since BE threads did not appear in public forums ... it took me "back" to few years ago now, sad to see things haven't either changed or improved 
Same things ... different years
Regards to all my ex collegues, who must say, made my time there one of the most enjoyable flying experiences of my life
Ciao
Same things ... different years Regards to all my ex collegues, who must say, made my time there one of the most enjoyable flying experiences of my life
Ciao
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
From: Horsham UK
Raw Data:
I base my assertion on the following:
FlyBE's announcement that it will base it fleet on D8s and 146's (ie bye bye CRJs) and a conversation with a person who is in a position to influence the course of the company.
Tip off that as mentioned earlier big Jim and co are in discussions with Bomb about trading in the CRJs for more Q400s since confirmed through another source BTW
JE Engineering is pretty focused on being a quadrapuff and D8 centre
According to the latest data I have BE has 12 D8s and 15 puffs if a deal is done on the CRJs then you could assume they'd be getting more Q4s than CRJs lets be reasonable and say five so that's hmmm 17 D8s and 15 puffs and that's assumeming that more D8s over and above are not aquired by lease or purchase
Net result, it appears reasonable does it not to assume therefore that the airline will have more T/Ps than jets in the future and that further for those flying for the airline there will be more T/P slots than jets?
Dosent seem too big a flight of fancy to me...but there you go my reality might be a little different yours.
I base my assertion on the following:
FlyBE's announcement that it will base it fleet on D8s and 146's (ie bye bye CRJs) and a conversation with a person who is in a position to influence the course of the company.
Tip off that as mentioned earlier big Jim and co are in discussions with Bomb about trading in the CRJs for more Q400s since confirmed through another source BTW
JE Engineering is pretty focused on being a quadrapuff and D8 centre
According to the latest data I have BE has 12 D8s and 15 puffs if a deal is done on the CRJs then you could assume they'd be getting more Q4s than CRJs lets be reasonable and say five so that's hmmm 17 D8s and 15 puffs and that's assumeming that more D8s over and above are not aquired by lease or purchase
Net result, it appears reasonable does it not to assume therefore that the airline will have more T/Ps than jets in the future and that further for those flying for the airline there will be more T/P slots than jets?
Dosent seem too big a flight of fancy to me...but there you go my reality might be a little different yours.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: UK
Eastern Wiseguy....
Not true. We've never claimed to be all low cost.
If you read the charter and look at the website you'll see we're aiming for the middle ground. Low fares but service of some sort on all our flights.
Not true. We've never claimed to be all low cost.
If you read the charter and look at the website you'll see we're aiming for the middle ground. Low fares but service of some sort on all our flights.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 713
Likes: 0
From: 52N 20E
Hmmmmm. service of some sort ! Well yes if you are on an
Air France flight its excellent but then Air France are paying for it.
I hardly think that a cup of tea or coffee qualifies as a "Service" do you ? Seems pretty low cost to me.
Before anyone mentions the "Business pax" well their corporate departments are paying for it also.
Thought the latest strategy was to bin most of the Business fares except for a few choice routes and concentrate on the "Lower fares" for Joe public.
This appears to be doing quite well, now that we've been dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st centuary, with the on line web site up and running.
If the D8-400 is to be a success then we really need another C/A to make the cabin more efficient, don't we ?
Air France flight its excellent but then Air France are paying for it.
I hardly think that a cup of tea or coffee qualifies as a "Service" do you ? Seems pretty low cost to me.
Before anyone mentions the "Business pax" well their corporate departments are paying for it also.
Thought the latest strategy was to bin most of the Business fares except for a few choice routes and concentrate on the "Lower fares" for Joe public.
This appears to be doing quite well, now that we've been dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st centuary, with the on line web site up and running.
If the D8-400 is to be a success then we really need another C/A to make the cabin more efficient, don't we ?
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: UK of course
To whom it may concern
Well I guess the reason why some of the 146 crews aren’t leaving their 146 is that the 146 is like their Misses.
She antique, slow, a bit short for her width, leaks in different places and making a hell of a noise in the process.
Is tech when you wanna do it, needs lots booze to keep her going and you can’t take her everywhere you want to go to.
But you can’t F*#%*NG leave her!!!
She antique, slow, a bit short for her width, leaks in different places and making a hell of a noise in the process.
Is tech when you wanna do it, needs lots booze to keep her going and you can’t take her everywhere you want to go to.
But you can’t F*#%*NG leave her!!!