FlyBE Pilot Exodus!
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RD ,
I'd say they either cut a deal or were "worth" the early release.
My money is on the latter, as it has not even been two weeks since their "weekend away", so their notice is very,very, recent !
WRT Payrise's the money is always there, it just needs to be budgeted for , just like any other expense .
Perhaps the tumble drier down below 50 north needs to be on a slower setting.
I'd say they either cut a deal or were "worth" the early release.
My money is on the latter, as it has not even been two weeks since their "weekend away", so their notice is very,very, recent !
WRT Payrise's the money is always there, it just needs to be budgeted for , just like any other expense .
Perhaps the tumble drier down below 50 north needs to be on a slower setting.
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oic
Where do you get the idea we are reducing the number of jets? The overall number of jets should stay substantially the same. If you want more info on that, ask on the private forum. Ask about the fleet manning levels as publicised at Kickstart.
Smokie
That is, to say the least, naive. OK then, we'll raise the salaries and stop buying fuel...
Just what do you think we could cut in order to increase salaries...???
Where do you get the idea we are reducing the number of jets? The overall number of jets should stay substantially the same. If you want more info on that, ask on the private forum. Ask about the fleet manning levels as publicised at Kickstart.
Smokie
WRT Payrise's the money is always there, it just needs to be budgeted for , just like any other expense .
Just what do you think we could cut in order to increase salaries...???
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RD:
If my information is correct, the CRJ's are about to go. I also believe that FlyBE has already gotten rid of some of the older 146's - correct me if I'm wrong. Meanwhile, the dash-fleet has expanded. I would say that the ratio of jets vs TP's has changed.
If my information is correct, the CRJ's are about to go. I also believe that FlyBE has already gotten rid of some of the older 146's - correct me if I'm wrong. Meanwhile, the dash-fleet has expanded. I would say that the ratio of jets vs TP's has changed.
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RAW DATA
Unfortunately I was not at the kickstart meeting. I was flying that day. Someone has to work so the company earns some money (to waist it again on hotac costs etc.) If the fleet manager or GM have some info that most of us pilots consider worth knowing wouldn’t it be easier if they send us a letter of some sort, rather than receiving 200 or more phone calls from its personnel?
But I’m glad you’re saying:
BTW
That's been done by FlyBE as well!!!
A couple of guys have had 3 base changes in 4 months after joining us. Or being based in TLS only to be based in BHX approx. 11 months later.
Unfortunately I was not at the kickstart meeting. I was flying that day. Someone has to work so the company earns some money (to waist it again on hotac costs etc.) If the fleet manager or GM have some info that most of us pilots consider worth knowing wouldn’t it be easier if they send us a letter of some sort, rather than receiving 200 or more phone calls from its personnel?
But I’m glad you’re saying:
I would be the first to acknowledge that communication is woefully inadequate.
having them promise you a base and then change their minds, etc
A couple of guys have had 3 base changes in 4 months after joining us. Or being based in TLS only to be based in BHX approx. 11 months later.
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at risk of sounding contraversial (again), it would appear that Easyjet have abolished their assessment procedure in favour of 'drawing straws'. Or perhaps 4 weeks notice earns you a free ILS in the sim . For those left in Flybe the problems of promotion should begin to be addressed...more jet positions to fill.
And before anybody starts..yes I know the vast majority of Flybe crew are good. I'm sure the good ones that are off to Easy will be missed.
And before anybody starts..yes I know the vast majority of Flybe crew are good. I'm sure the good ones that are off to Easy will be missed.
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This is great!!
NO future at Flybe
RD as you know I am a Q400 driver you have been on the jump seat you know how good it is but not good for the airline!! your words not mine. The real picture is many people do want to stay with Flybe but more are going to leave!!!
NO future at Flybe
RD as you know I am a Q400 driver you have been on the jump seat you know how good it is but not good for the airline!! your words not mine. The real picture is many people do want to stay with Flybe but more are going to leave!!!
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oic
You are correct- if you only look at the disposal of the CRJs. However, the fleet acquistion plan stretches until 2005. Therefore the final numbers of each type are somewhat different to what you obviously perceive them to be.
2 BE or not 2 BE
The way it is supposed to work, is that each Base Captain is invited to attend the Kickstart, and they then cascade the information down to the pilots and cabin crew at their base. It is actually a very 2002 way of doing things, but it relies on managers (ie base captains etc), to cascade the information.
The crucial word there is "after". Once you join, you are given (hopefully) a contract which, amongst other things, specifies under what circumstances the company can change your base. I know something about this, having had four bases in four years. On the other hand, Easy employed people who accepted the job on the basis of the base they were offered. Once they had resigned from their jobs with Flybe, Easy changed the rules (and their bases). Flybe don't operate in quite such an underhand way. But don't take my word for it, ask those affected (at least one of which tried to get back into Flybe as soon as he found out he was being shipped off to Liverpool or somewhere). As I understand it, you now don't get assigned a base until you complete your final line check. Makes me bl**dy glad I declined their offer.
Finally, I echo what carlos vandango says- the good ones that have left will be missed indeed (certainly the EDI ones, by me).
You are correct- if you only look at the disposal of the CRJs. However, the fleet acquistion plan stretches until 2005. Therefore the final numbers of each type are somewhat different to what you obviously perceive them to be.
2 BE or not 2 BE
If the fleet manager or GM have some info that most of us pilots consider worth knowing wouldn’t it be easier if they send us a letter of some sort, rather than receiving 200 or more phone calls from its personnel?
That's been done by FlyBE as well!!! A couple of guys have had 3 base changes in 4 months after joining us.
Finally, I echo what carlos vandango says- the good ones that have left will be missed indeed (certainly the EDI ones, by me).
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easyJet is the natural progression from a company like BE. Its the move into the big airline world- flying bigger aeroplanes- further and for more money!
BE is a great place to start off.... but a dead end.
BE is a great place to start off.... but a dead end.
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Raw Data
I am sure this correct although getting phone calls just within days after submitting your CV can be taken as a sign of things to come,... perhaps.
Apparently nothing anticipated until Exeter knows/decides the fate of the CRJ which is still uncertain (although i understand HF is being fitted which could be useful to market the A/C in some parts of the world).
As for the rest, I know notin'
There are no current plans to recruit, apart from the Cabair cadets we have committed to.
Apparently nothing anticipated until Exeter knows/decides the fate of the CRJ which is still uncertain (although i understand HF is being fitted which could be useful to market the A/C in some parts of the world).
As for the rest, I know notin'
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Contracts, there's another great British tradition gone by the way side . Seems to me they only honour contracts when it suits them ; I am sick and tired of counting the myraid of breaches of the afore mentioned.
And yes many moons ago my base was changed about a week prior to joining and after I had handed in my notice at the previous company. So no stranger to that one either I'm afraid.
There is certainly one "Character" from north of the Wall, who I'm sure a lot of people will be glad to see the back of.
RD, wise up pal, you need to take a closer look at what has been going on below 50 north and certainly take what ever you are told from Fantasy Island with a very large pinch of salt .
And to quote another infamous character on pprune:-
"It ain't gona change any time soon "
And yes many moons ago my base was changed about a week prior to joining and after I had handed in my notice at the previous company. So no stranger to that one either I'm afraid.
There is certainly one "Character" from north of the Wall, who I'm sure a lot of people will be glad to see the back of.
RD, wise up pal, you need to take a closer look at what has been going on below 50 north and certainly take what ever you are told from Fantasy Island with a very large pinch of salt .
And to quote another infamous character on pprune:-
"It ain't gona change any time soon "
Last edited by Smokie; 3rd Dec 2002 at 23:19.
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Goforfun
The big airline world? Well, maybe, but not a lot of variety. After 20 years or so in Easy, you will still be flying around in 737/A320 (probably knackered by then), to the same long runways.
I prefer the variety we get in Flybe myself, but, each to his own, whatever floats your boat.
Most people who have been in the business for any length of time realise that going from Flybe (or a similar-sized airline) to Easy (or whatever) is just more of the same. If you think Easy is nirvana, explain all the discontent amongst their employees that seems to spill over onto this forum. The only value is the type rating, but even that is becoming questionable. Easyjet is as much a dead end as Flybe is.
AMEX
Flybe (in common with many airlines) often takes the temperature of the pilot pool.
Smokie
Still having trouble understanding why you haven't left for Big Orange if you are so disenchanted with your present circumstances. Why is that exactly?
If the company has breached your contract so often, I imagine you have spoken to Balpa. What did they say?
I wonder how many others have had their base changed before they started. Anyone...???
As it happens, I do keep a close eye on what goes on, but I get my information from the managers concerned, not the local rumour mill. I trust my managers.
There are two types of pilot in any airline. One type does his or her best to fit in, evaluates everything from a position of balance, and realises that there is a lot more to running an airline than flying planes.
The other type doubts everything, is deeply distrustful of any manager, and feels he or she can do every job in the airline better than the person doing it.
One type tends to have a more successful time than the other...
The big airline world? Well, maybe, but not a lot of variety. After 20 years or so in Easy, you will still be flying around in 737/A320 (probably knackered by then), to the same long runways.
I prefer the variety we get in Flybe myself, but, each to his own, whatever floats your boat.
Most people who have been in the business for any length of time realise that going from Flybe (or a similar-sized airline) to Easy (or whatever) is just more of the same. If you think Easy is nirvana, explain all the discontent amongst their employees that seems to spill over onto this forum. The only value is the type rating, but even that is becoming questionable. Easyjet is as much a dead end as Flybe is.
AMEX
Flybe (in common with many airlines) often takes the temperature of the pilot pool.
Smokie
Still having trouble understanding why you haven't left for Big Orange if you are so disenchanted with your present circumstances. Why is that exactly?
If the company has breached your contract so often, I imagine you have spoken to Balpa. What did they say?
I wonder how many others have had their base changed before they started. Anyone...???
As it happens, I do keep a close eye on what goes on, but I get my information from the managers concerned, not the local rumour mill. I trust my managers.
There are two types of pilot in any airline. One type does his or her best to fit in, evaluates everything from a position of balance, and realises that there is a lot more to running an airline than flying planes.
The other type doubts everything, is deeply distrustful of any manager, and feels he or she can do every job in the airline better than the person doing it.
One type tends to have a more successful time than the other...
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Well done Pprune or whoever it was that removed the original post !
You simply can't have people giving totally ridiculous and innacurate information over a public forum which could damage a Company and therefore put our jobs at risk.
Why does everybody assume that we all want to go to Easyjet ? Yes, the pay needs addressing urgently but having read the posts on other Airlines recently, your going to get heart-ache wherever you go.
My Brother fly's for Easyjet, so I get a lot of first-hand info from him. 'Wild horses' would'nt drag me there at the moment !
You simply can't have people giving totally ridiculous and innacurate information over a public forum which could damage a Company and therefore put our jobs at risk.
Why does everybody assume that we all want to go to Easyjet ? Yes, the pay needs addressing urgently but having read the posts on other Airlines recently, your going to get heart-ache wherever you go.
My Brother fly's for Easyjet, so I get a lot of first-hand info from him. 'Wild horses' would'nt drag me there at the moment !
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OIC yep the Q400 is not only quick and it's not just the cruise but the up and down rates as well. The numbers I've heard agree with your 5 mins slower on BHX-EDI but here's the kick, it does it on about half the fuel burn.
I reckon you blokes at fly BE need to get a grip of a T/P future. The word I've heard is that the bearded one has been spending a lot of time in Toronto of late negotiating a swop of the CRJs for more Q400s (seems they haven't agreed the ratio of Q4s for CRJs or some such but expect an announcement before very long) so it's D8s or quadrapuffs for you and more D8s than 'puffs.
I reckon you blokes at fly BE need to get a grip of a T/P future. The word I've heard is that the bearded one has been spending a lot of time in Toronto of late negotiating a swop of the CRJs for more Q400s (seems they haven't agreed the ratio of Q4s for CRJs or some such but expect an announcement before very long) so it's D8s or quadrapuffs for you and more D8s than 'puffs.
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RD:
"Most people who have been in the business for any length of time realise that going from Flybe (or a similar-sized airline) to Easy (or whatever) is just more of the same."
Exactly! more specifically, money!
You're right about EZ being as much as a dead-end as FlyBE, but I suppose that's true for any airline, it just depends on what your expectations are. From the EZ terms and conditions, a line trainer with 5 to 10 years service can look forward to about £80.000 a year (including duty pay), which is substantially more than what you get. A much more comfortable position to be stuck in.
"Most people who have been in the business for any length of time realise that going from Flybe (or a similar-sized airline) to Easy (or whatever) is just more of the same."
Exactly! more specifically, money!
You're right about EZ being as much as a dead-end as FlyBE, but I suppose that's true for any airline, it just depends on what your expectations are. From the EZ terms and conditions, a line trainer with 5 to 10 years service can look forward to about £80.000 a year (including duty pay), which is substantially more than what you get. A much more comfortable position to be stuck in.
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Carlos,
Nice one mate !
RD,
I'm afraid Orange clashes with my matching hand bag & poodle
and definately not my cup of tea either.
As for distrusting the management, why do you think that is then?
WRT the base change there are at least three other guys who were in the same boat.
BTW who said anything about just my contract ?
Ace,
I heard pretty much the same in the last couple of days as well.
As for half the fuel burn, well its only got half the number of engines.
The Marketing and Advertising departments have done a sterling job, no doubt about it. Shame that other deprtments haven't followed suit.
I keep looking for the light at the end of the tunnel, perhaps someone should switch it on first .
Nice one mate !
RD,
I'm afraid Orange clashes with my matching hand bag & poodle
and definately not my cup of tea either.
As for distrusting the management, why do you think that is then?
WRT the base change there are at least three other guys who were in the same boat.
BTW who said anything about just my contract ?
Ace,
I heard pretty much the same in the last couple of days as well.
As for half the fuel burn, well its only got half the number of engines.
The Marketing and Advertising departments have done a sterling job, no doubt about it. Shame that other deprtments haven't followed suit.
I keep looking for the light at the end of the tunnel, perhaps someone should switch it on first .
Last edited by Smokie; 4th Dec 2002 at 10:40.
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RD,
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'Training costs, well, sure there will be training costs when we hire again- but the cost of keeping crews sitting on their tods doing nothing for six months is fairly expensive too'
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How much does it cost to train a new recruit on to the 146, if you take the company figures it's somewhere between 15-20 grand isn't it ? 6 months of F/O's salary = £15000 (that's the one's who don't get £20K per year) or Capt's = £25. So on average we don't save a penny but what we do lose is something difficult to buy - Experience.
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'However, the fleet acquisition plan stretches until 2005. '
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Thanks for that one, I haven't laughed so much in weeks.
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'Training costs, well, sure there will be training costs when we hire again- but the cost of keeping crews sitting on their tods doing nothing for six months is fairly expensive too'
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How much does it cost to train a new recruit on to the 146, if you take the company figures it's somewhere between 15-20 grand isn't it ? 6 months of F/O's salary = £15000 (that's the one's who don't get £20K per year) or Capt's = £25. So on average we don't save a penny but what we do lose is something difficult to buy - Experience.
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'However, the fleet acquisition plan stretches until 2005. '
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Thanks for that one, I haven't laughed so much in weeks.