Brit pilots working in the USA
Prob30,
You haven't offered enough of your details to understand your situation. And yes, the world is overrun with snake oil salesmen. The people who offer to train you have no ability to assure you of a job.
But...the first and most critical question: do you have the legal ability to live/work in the USA ? Everything hinges on that.
You haven't offered enough of your details to understand your situation. And yes, the world is overrun with snake oil salesmen. The people who offer to train you have no ability to assure you of a job.
But...the first and most critical question: do you have the legal ability to live/work in the USA ? Everything hinges on that.
Prob30,
You haven't offered enough of your details to understand your situation. And yes, the world is overrun with snake oil salesmen. The people who offer to train you have no ability to assure you of a job.
But...the first and most critical question: do you have the legal ability to live/work in the USA ? Everything hinges on that.
You haven't offered enough of your details to understand your situation. And yes, the world is overrun with snake oil salesmen. The people who offer to train you have no ability to assure you of a job.
But...the first and most critical question: do you have the legal ability to live/work in the USA ? Everything hinges on that.
No ! They were on about visas for pilots etc but the only groups I’ve seen that offered to is the austronauts and Canadians
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Looserivets: This thread is, as you know is, about Brit pilots working in the USA.Not Brit pilots trying or even getting a US licence in order to fly a US Registered aircraft..But, part of your wide fan base, I enjoyed the post and larfed me socks off.
I am still coming back for a fifth life and listening to good advice from my Cousins about things like Valley girls.
Overall, thread shows tremendous interest in working as an airline pilot in the USA. Just the hint of an opening and the world and his wife are lining up. Wholly admirable really..
I am still coming back for a fifth life and listening to good advice from my Cousins about things like Valley girls.
Overall, thread shows tremendous interest in working as an airline pilot in the USA. Just the hint of an opening and the world and his wife are lining up. Wholly admirable really..
For the ATP, AFAIK, as long as you have the hours:
https://atpflightschool.com/atp/
$15K/20 days, and I would guess cheaper shops are available. But I would not come here without a green card in place.
For the ATP, AFAIK, as long as you have the hours:
https://atpflightschool.com/atp/
$15K/20 days, and I would guess cheaper shops are available.
https://atpflightschool.com/atp/
$15K/20 days, and I would guess cheaper shops are available.
Those coming from an extensive large airplane background and only wanting to get the ATP in an airplane they've been flying can just hook up with an outfit in KMIA to get the ticket in a sim after taking the ATP-CTP course and written exam. Many have done it that way.
I don't recall anyone offering up the price they paid doing it that way but I'm going to guess it wasn't $15K. Of course, I could always be wrong...
Last edited by bafanguy; 2nd Mar 2024 at 19:13.
I assume the cost would depend on what the prospective student has going into a training regimen. If one were getting the FAA ATP from scratch and on one's own with minim total flight time, a school like the one you cited might be one way to go.
Those coming from an extensive large airplane background and only wanting to get the ATP in an airplane they've been flying and just hook up with an outfit in KMIA to get the ticket in a sim after taking the ATP-CTP course and written exam. Many have done it that way.
I don't recall anyone offering up the price they paid doing it that way but I'm going to guess it wasn't $15K. Of course, I could always be wrong...
Those coming from an extensive large airplane background and only wanting to get the ATP in an airplane they've been flying and just hook up with an outfit in KMIA to get the ticket in a sim after taking the ATP-CTP course and written exam. Many have done it that way.
I don't recall anyone offering up the price they paid doing it that way but I'm going to guess it wasn't $15K. Of course, I could always be wrong...
So my choice is the 73 at UAL (last time on type 13 years ago on the -500 or Delta (AAL will announce day after tomorrow an order for 100 planes, the majority Airbus).
I don't care about the FAA certification I have >6,000 hrs PIC on the 777. I care more about how long it will take. I just don't want to downgrade. I have a pretty good seniority where I am but I am reading about absurd pay rates on the US.
I'd like to have a look at DAL but they are heavily Airbus.
I don't care about the FAA certification I have >6,000 hrs PIC on the 777. I care more about how long it will take. I just don't want to downgrade. I have a pretty good seniority where I am but I am reading about absurd pay rates on the US.
I'd like to have a look at DAL but they are heavily Airbus.
From what you've said about your understanding of US airlines, I have to say I have failed to properly explain the situation a person such as yourself would face coming here to fly for a legacy. I'm not Hemingway...sorry.
It makes absolutely no difference to a new hire whether an airline is "...heavily Airbus." or not. NO...DIFFERENCE. It should not be a factor in choosing a destination airline spot.
For example, despite your vast B777 PIC experience, if you were to go to UAL as a new hire and get a B777 F/O slot you'd go to school as if you couldn't even SPELL B777. I know of a guy who went from a ME airline as a B77 captain to UAL...and that was his experience. No surprises there.
A new hire pilot will get whatever airplane and/or base seniority allows. That's as succinctly as I know how to say it. The captain slots going to new hires at UAL or DL are wild anomalies and can/will be undone at the first major economic downturn...or when those senior to them decide they want to be a captain after all.
Sounds like you've got a sweet deal where you care. Circumstances here do not appear to suit your priorities. No problem: horses for courses, right ?
I'm sure you'll make the right choice for yourself.
I refer to my earlier post…,
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Lady Speedbird
From what you’ve written, I’m not certain I’ve explained myself clearly. You said you don’t want to downgrade. As it stands now, you will almost certainly be a narrowbody FO if you come to the US. You may get lucky and secure a 767 or A330/777 slot in class, but I wouldn’t count on it. Your previous experience will NOT be a factor in your initial aircraft/base assignment. That will be based on your seniority within your particular class. Typically (but not always), that’s determined by age (eldest is most senior).
If you don’t want to fly an Airbus, Delta plans to be an all-Airbus WB fleet in the future.
As someone else pointed out, you’ll go through a full type rating course when you get here, even if you got very lucky and got the 777 at United.
Also, you’ll need 1000hrs as SIC at a part 121 carrier before you can be a captain. I’m not sure if they’ve relaxed that rule to allow your previous time to count, but when last I checked (5+ years ago), this was not the case, so you’ll have to sit in the right seat for a minimum of 1000hrs before you can be a CA.
Right (or left) seat in the 757 won’t get you to the 777 any faster. It’s all a matter of seniority. You could theoretically go from 320 FO to 777 CA. Nothing would prevent that.
For now, United is offering 737 CA slots in newhire class. I’m told in one of the more recent classes, nobody wanted it, so the junior few people got stuck with it. Given you haven’t got any 121 SIC time, I’m not even certain you’d be eligible for that. Along those lines, if being a captain ASAP is important, you may want to bid NB FO instead of WB FO, as you only get flight time credit for the time spent in the seat. (Pay and rest/duty limits are based on the entire flight time though).
The last thing I’ll add is that I hope money isn’t the sole factor you’re considering. Things are good now. They weren’t always like this, and history doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes.
From what you’ve written, I’m not certain I’ve explained myself clearly. You said you don’t want to downgrade. As it stands now, you will almost certainly be a narrowbody FO if you come to the US. You may get lucky and secure a 767 or A330/777 slot in class, but I wouldn’t count on it. Your previous experience will NOT be a factor in your initial aircraft/base assignment. That will be based on your seniority within your particular class. Typically (but not always), that’s determined by age (eldest is most senior).
If you don’t want to fly an Airbus, Delta plans to be an all-Airbus WB fleet in the future.
As someone else pointed out, you’ll go through a full type rating course when you get here, even if you got very lucky and got the 777 at United.
Also, you’ll need 1000hrs as SIC at a part 121 carrier before you can be a captain. I’m not sure if they’ve relaxed that rule to allow your previous time to count, but when last I checked (5+ years ago), this was not the case, so you’ll have to sit in the right seat for a minimum of 1000hrs before you can be a CA.
Right (or left) seat in the 757 won’t get you to the 777 any faster. It’s all a matter of seniority. You could theoretically go from 320 FO to 777 CA. Nothing would prevent that.
For now, United is offering 737 CA slots in newhire class. I’m told in one of the more recent classes, nobody wanted it, so the junior few people got stuck with it. Given you haven’t got any 121 SIC time, I’m not even certain you’d be eligible for that. Along those lines, if being a captain ASAP is important, you may want to bid NB FO instead of WB FO, as you only get flight time credit for the time spent in the seat. (Pay and rest/duty limits are based on the entire flight time though).
The last thing I’ll add is that I hope money isn’t the sole factor you’re considering. Things are good now. They weren’t always like this, and history doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes.
I’m also assuming you have the right to
live and work in France/EU and speak French to an appropriate level and it’s endorsed on your license? And of course you’d also start at the bottom again at Air France on the 320
I find it extraordinary that a senior skipper at BA thinks they can waltz into another legacy and take a command given how sacrosanct seniority is at most legacy carriers.
live and work in France/EU and speak French to an appropriate level and it’s endorsed on your license? And of course you’d also start at the bottom again at Air France on the 320
I find it extraordinary that a senior skipper at BA thinks they can waltz into another legacy and take a command given how sacrosanct seniority is at most legacy carriers.
I really appreciate your I put. I did gather as much that's why I kept saying "leaning Airbus"... I don't want to be dumped on an Airbus and I know I wouldn't be my decision.
From everyone's kind contributions looks like I either stay at BA or move across tomAir France. I admit it's quite a complicated system, the American one (we also use seniority, mind you).
I won't be taking much of your time, I have a month or so to make up my mind.
From everyone's kind contributions looks like I either stay at BA or move across tomAir France. I admit it's quite a complicated system, the American one (we also use seniority, mind you).
I won't be taking much of your time, I have a month or so to make up my mind.
In light of what’s been said , I can’t see any reason for a Brit captain to go to the US - you won’t keep the seat you’ve been in and thus the tremendous pay available to those in the states on the large stuff will not be accessible .
I’ve spent the last 25 years living as an expat in the US&A. For the last 9 years, I’ve been at United and currently work at the training center in Denver, teaching on the 777. So, I’ve had a front seat view of the new hire training, particularly on the 777.
We’d give you an interview inside a week of applying. Not quite but your CV would move to the interview stack very very quickly. New hire assignments change from week to week. We had a huge amount of new hires being assigned to the 777 last year but that has dropped right off. So expecting the 777 as a new hire, is unlikely. More likely is the 737/320 as an FO or if it floats your boat, you can bid for a Captain position on either but still have to do about 9 months as an FO before actually sitting in the seat. Your experience will get you an interview but you still have to get the 121 experience in order to upgrade.
Flying a plane is flying a plane but operating in the US can be totally different from operating anywhere else in the world. We have former Captains from EK, EY, CX and other long haul operators from all over the world, who have joined over the last two years. Without exception they’ve not only brought a huge amount of experience to the operation but also, more importantly, a good attitude. Don’t come if you’re not able to accept that they do things their way and have done for decades. I can’t speak for other carriers but we are trying to make a concerted effort to become more ICAO compliant but it will take time. If anyone thinks they’re going to be able to join a US carrier, jump in the left seat of a WB and simply do things the way they did at their previous operator, they’re in for a very rude awakening. There is a cultural difference that you can’t fail to appreciate. I’m not aiming this at you LS but it’s a general comment for the peanut gallery.
At UAL the 777/787 are the most senior aircraft for the left seat. Captains are easily making mid to high $400’s at a minimum depending on their seniority within their respective fleet and how much they choose to fly. Currently, the most junior Captain on the 777 is about a 5000 number and we have about 16500 active pilots. Retirements really start ramping up this year and continue for about the next 6 years at a minimum, so anyone joining now will have to wait around 10 years to get the 777/787 as a Captain. If Boeing hadn’t completely c0cked up the 737 & 787 deliveries, this would probably drop by about 3 years.
I’d be surprised if it was any different at DAL in terms of getting a WB left seat. Especially as United has more WB than DAL and AA combined. You have to pay your dues with time and possibly luck with timing but seniority rules everything. There are no short cuts. Life is extremely good right now but as I tell the youngsters who’ve joined United in the last 3 years after only flying an RJ for a few years, this is unprecedented and could end in the blink of an eye. Don’t take it for granted.
We’d give you an interview inside a week of applying. Not quite but your CV would move to the interview stack very very quickly. New hire assignments change from week to week. We had a huge amount of new hires being assigned to the 777 last year but that has dropped right off. So expecting the 777 as a new hire, is unlikely. More likely is the 737/320 as an FO or if it floats your boat, you can bid for a Captain position on either but still have to do about 9 months as an FO before actually sitting in the seat. Your experience will get you an interview but you still have to get the 121 experience in order to upgrade.
Flying a plane is flying a plane but operating in the US can be totally different from operating anywhere else in the world. We have former Captains from EK, EY, CX and other long haul operators from all over the world, who have joined over the last two years. Without exception they’ve not only brought a huge amount of experience to the operation but also, more importantly, a good attitude. Don’t come if you’re not able to accept that they do things their way and have done for decades. I can’t speak for other carriers but we are trying to make a concerted effort to become more ICAO compliant but it will take time. If anyone thinks they’re going to be able to join a US carrier, jump in the left seat of a WB and simply do things the way they did at their previous operator, they’re in for a very rude awakening. There is a cultural difference that you can’t fail to appreciate. I’m not aiming this at you LS but it’s a general comment for the peanut gallery.
At UAL the 777/787 are the most senior aircraft for the left seat. Captains are easily making mid to high $400’s at a minimum depending on their seniority within their respective fleet and how much they choose to fly. Currently, the most junior Captain on the 777 is about a 5000 number and we have about 16500 active pilots. Retirements really start ramping up this year and continue for about the next 6 years at a minimum, so anyone joining now will have to wait around 10 years to get the 777/787 as a Captain. If Boeing hadn’t completely c0cked up the 737 & 787 deliveries, this would probably drop by about 3 years.
I’d be surprised if it was any different at DAL in terms of getting a WB left seat. Especially as United has more WB than DAL and AA combined. You have to pay your dues with time and possibly luck with timing but seniority rules everything. There are no short cuts. Life is extremely good right now but as I tell the youngsters who’ve joined United in the last 3 years after only flying an RJ for a few years, this is unprecedented and could end in the blink of an eye. Don’t take it for granted.
Also, you’ll need 1000hrs as SIC at a part 121 carrier before you can be a captain. I’m not sure if they’ve relaxed that rule to allow your previous time to count, but when last I checked (5+ years ago), this was not the case, so you’ll have to sit in the right seat for a minimum of 1000hrs before you can be a CA.
As far as I know, that 1,000 hours FAA Part 121 time for upgrade is a hard number. I assume those getting "forced" into a B737 spot in UAL new hire school were hired with that requirement met, i.e., regional experience.
They do. The new hire Captain thing, is designed to poach captains from Spirit, Frontier, JetBlue, etc. in an effort to kill off the competition. it seems to be working
@Kenny: Very enlighting, and CA's earlier posts too. That's why I came here, for insight and advice. I don't know everything - although many people on PPRUNE and APC claim that. I know certain things and ask about the rest. EDIT: I absolutely agree that any new hire should follow company SOPs - either written or sometimes unwritten. Your overall post is very enlightening.
Good luck with whatever happens. I can think of a lot worse things than living in South Ken and being a 777 Captain at BA.