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Jet2 plane diverted to Porto after pilot falls ill at the controls

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Jet2 plane diverted to Porto after pilot falls ill at the controls

Old 28th Aug 2019, 17:19
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Originally Posted by OldnGrounded View Post
Are we really having an argument about whether or not it's a good idea to "land nearest suitable" when one of two pilots on a commercial airliner has become incapacitated?
It would appear so

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Old 28th Aug 2019, 17:24
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The best we can do here is try to educate the ignorant. You never know, they may have enough money to buy their way into the right hand seat one day.
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 18:08
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Originally Posted by OldnGrounded View Post
Of course it can be flown by a single pilot -- unless and until the workload increases (for some reason) to the point where it can't.

Are we really having an argument about whether or not it's a good idea to "land nearest suitable" when one of two pilots on a commercial airliner has become incapacitated?
Well, there was the arguement above as to what constitutes "suitable". A "captain only" airport? One in which the PF has never landed before? etc.
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 18:09
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Originally Posted by CEJM View Post
Funchal is a captains only landing so even if the F/O pushed on, he would not have been able to land in Funchal
Uh, are you sure about that?
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 18:11
  #25 (permalink)  

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A sensible decision was made to divert given the Capt incapacitation.
Make full use of the automatics to reduce the workload.
Declare Emergency

Good outcome in the circumstances. Is there really any more to say?
Rotary pontifications are irrelevant to this particular thread.

Nothing more to see ~ move on
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 18:47
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Uh, are you sure about that?
Have you read anything? FNC is a Captains only landing according to company SOPs. Had there been no other alternative an exception may no doubt have possibly been made. As it was, there was an abundance of alternatives and they took the best one. End of!
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 20:27
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Originally Posted by Hotel Tango View Post
FNC is a Captains only landing
When the captain becomes incapacitated, the FO immediately becomes PIC, and if he decides there's an emergency, he can land wherever the hell he likes.

As it was, there was an abundance of alternatives and they took the best one.
In this case, yes. I took the post as a blanket statement that the FO can't land there. My bad.
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 21:14
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Originally Posted by Smalahove View Post
When the captain becomes incapacitated, the FO immediately becomes PIC, and if he decides there's an emergency, he can land wherever the hell he likes.

In this case, yes. I took the post as a blanket statement that the FO can't land there. My bad.
I take it you have never been to Funchal. In theory in an emergency you are correct, in practice you wouldn't consider it. In normal ops FO is not permitted to land at Funchal and for good reason.

Last edited by beardy; 28th Aug 2019 at 21:28.
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 21:24
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Porto was close, the Southerly Runway has an ILS and it is a big city with quality medical facilities.

What more could you want when your Captain is taken ill. Get them.down safely and on the way to hospital ASAP. It appears as if it was a job well done.
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Old 28th Aug 2019, 21:33
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Originally Posted by beardy View Post
In theory in an emergency you are correct, in practice you wouldn't consider it.
Oh, I dunno, if the captain was having a heart attack and Funchal was the nearest airport, I would definitely consider it.

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Old 28th Aug 2019, 21:42
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Originally Posted by Smalahove View Post
Oh, I dunno, if the captain was having a heart attack and Funchal was the nearest airport, I would definitely consider it.
Spot on, go anywhere you like in an emergency. And having operated to Funchal for the last 7 years it's really not that big a deal.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 05:45
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Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan View Post
And having operated to Funchal for the last 7 years it's really not that big a deal.
Ah well, I will have to disagree with you. Funchal can bite badly, sometimes when you least expect it. IMHO it's not an airfield to be considered as 'not a big deal.'
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 07:19
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I too have operated into FNC, for at least 15 years on a regular basis. It can be a really nasty place to land safely. I don’t know what the weather was on the day, but even when forecast calm / Cavok it can turn rapidly to the opposite. There’s no credit in risking the lives of everyone to save one person, I wouldn’t want an F/O to do so for me.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 07:25
  #34 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan View Post
Spot on, go anywhere you like in an emergency. And having operated to Funchal for the last 7 years it's really not that big a deal.
What has not been disclosed is the experience of the FO.
Pleased that you find FNC 'a piece of cake' with your 7 years experience.
The FO made a perfectly sensible decision; just what is it that people don't get......?

Move on ~ nothing more see here.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 07:52
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Whilst saving up to buy my way into the RHS someday I thought I’d improve my ignorance by reading some books on how to be an ex hamster Sky god. It differentiated between LAND ASAP and land at nearest suitable.
It had a chapter on pilot incapacitation and pointed out that there would not be any monitoring so a methodical and careful style was needed rather than a high workload environment. It suggested ( not the case here) that the first available option is not always the optimum solution and gave the example of the crewmember severing a finger. An island airport was close but discussion with medical experts suggested a diversion to a major hospital on the mainland, a considerable distance away, was a better decision and the finger could be reattached.

The Jet 2 event had a successful outcome well done to all and hopefully a speedy recovery for the incapacitated pilot.

The book also said that one of the behavioural markers of ignorance was thinking a 757 had an ECAM ( only joking) 😉

Last edited by sudden twang; 29th Aug 2019 at 08:10.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:23
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Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan View Post
Spot on, go anywhere you like in an emergency. And having operated to Funchal for the last 7 years it's really not that big a deal.
Been P1 into FNC for over 20 yrs and that place can bite you in the bum, BIG TIME.....especially Rwy 23 below 200’ !!

The F/O, in case, did good and I’m sure the company will praise him/her for his/her professional handling of the incident.

What I’m sure of is that the “Captains ONLY Landing and Take off” is a Portuguese State restriction, not a Company one and all “approved” Capt’s must be checked out in a sim first and possibly also a check ride in with an approved Training Capt before operating “solo” into the island.

Interesting debate about the use of FNC in an emergency though ......
Listened to a RYR a couple of years back heading North from TFS declaring a “medical emergency” and requesting diversion to FNC.
The Portuguese sector controller asked if the Capt was approved for FNC ?
The reply was “negative” and he was then denied a landing at FNC but given the option to divert to the next island, Porto Santo (PXO).
What makes that option interesting is that if, after landing in PXO, the medical case is deemed to serious for the Island’s own medical services to deal with, the casualty is then flown by the Portuguese emergency services to FNC, where I believe there are better facilities !

Now....... what if you’ve got a fire onboard and FNC is closest ???
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 08:23
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Originally Posted by sudden twang View Post
Whilst saving up to buy my way into the RHS someday I thought I’d improve my ignorance by reading some books on how to be an ex hamster Sky god. It differentiated between LAND ASAP and land at nearest suitable.
It had a chapter on pilot incapacitation and pointed out that there would not be any monitoring so a methodical and careful style was needed rather than a high workload environment. It suggested ( not the case here) that the first available option is not always the optimum solution and gave the example of the crewmember severing a finger. An island airport was close but discussion with medical experts suggested a diversion to a major hospital on the mainland, a considerable distance away, was a better decision and the finger could be reattached.

The Jet 2 event had a successful outcome well done to all and hopefully a speedy recovery for the incapacitated pilot.

The book also said that one of the behavioural markers of ignorance was thinking a 757 had an ECAM ( only joking) 😉
Are there many ex Hamble (BA) chaps under 65, & still flying ~public transport ?
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 10:30
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As a humble but relatively high time SLF. This first officer is the kind of pilot I want and would choose for 0A or 0B if I or those I cared about were sat anywhere else on board.
Respectfully submitted for consideration
David
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 11:57
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Hey Mods, feel free to delete this post if considered slightly off topic but I wondered just what official and legal capacity is appointed to an FO whose Captain has become incapacitated. I realise that without anyone else up front that the FO has to do everything possible to ensure the safety of the aircraft and its passengers and crew but are there any civil aviation regulations or company policies that govern the assumed elevated status of the FO in these situations? I mean has he actually assumed command for all intents or purposes or is he/she simply conducting the flight as if the Captain had instructed them to do so?
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 16:24
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Originally Posted by Lord Farringdon View Post
Hey Mods, feel free to delete this post if considered slightly off topic but I wondered just what official and legal capacity is appointed to an FO whose Captain has become incapacitated. I realise that without anyone else up front that the FO has to do everything possible to ensure the safety of the aircraft and its passengers and crew but are there any civil aviation regulations or company policies that govern the assumed elevated status of the FO in these situations? I mean has he actually assumed command for all intents or purposes or is he/she simply conducting the flight as if the Captain had instructed them to do so?
Most operations manuals have a job spec for a First Officer stating that they will assume the duties and authority of Pilot In Command if necessary during the flight. This would cover the FO in this instance as the Captain, once deemed incapacitated, generally would not be allowed to have input into the remainder of the flight even if seemingly recovered.
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