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Laudamotion Evacuation at Stansted

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Laudamotion Evacuation at Stansted

Old 2nd Mar 2019, 17:00
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by freshgasflow View Post
Grateful if someone here can explain to me (SLF) how can a engine surge happen during a take of roll ? After all, isn't there enough forward motion to ensure enough airflow into the engine intake ? Thank you.
As take off roll (usually) starts from being on stop, initially there is no ram air except for any headwind. The ground roll, especially at low speed, is one of the most likely times for such a surge. In this case, it seems this is very much the case, from one of the earliest posts from an eye witness:
[COLOR=left=#222222]Looked like the aircraft moved a few feet before aborting, no real speed had built up at all.[/COLOR]
So it is unclear what exactly is your point, which is worded to appear as a rhetorical question.

In this particular incident, the same witness also reported seeing:
[COLOR=left=#222222]Huge yellow flame from the port side engine, lasted about 4 seconds, and then a large burst of white sparks, similar to when you see welding taking place, but they 'spat out' rather then fell out the back of the engine.[/COLOR]
This indicates it is highly likely to have been a mechanical disintegration from within the engine, in which case any discussion about natural surges caused simply by insufficient airflow appear to be completely irrelevant.
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 18:47
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
There is always the possibility that the cabin reported a visible engine fire (out the tailpipe) and a desire to evacuate immediately. The pilots would probably have secured the engine as soon as they stopped (EGT pegged)

I'm not sure that any of this is bad (in this case)
And yet all exits on both sides opened, despite potential fire. Some questions will be asked...
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 06:15
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Questions that should be asked include whether the cabin crew decided to evacuate on their own initiative rather than waiting for the captain to announce anything.
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 06:22
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nicolai View Post
Questions that should be asked include whether the cabin crew decided to evacuate on their own initiative rather than waiting for the captain to announce anything.
Eyewitness reports re the CC weren't entirely complimentary.

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Old 6th Mar 2019, 06:29
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wtsmg View Post
Rev unlock or uncontained failure? I can't think why else only one clamshell would appear to be open.
Lauda and thrust reverser issue on #1? Deja vu...

(Of course totally unrelated, I know, I know)
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 06:34
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kristofera View Post
Lauda and thrust reverser issue on #1? Deja vu...

(Of course totally unrelated, I know, I know)
Yes a daft post -
Laudamotion is 3 times removed from the original Lauda Air
An A320 is not a 767
STN incident is nothing to do with a uncommanded T/R
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 07:09
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nicolai View Post
Questions that should be asked include whether the cabin crew decided to evacuate on their own initiative rather than waiting for the captain to announce anything.
Or the passengers decided to evacuate on their own initiative rather than waiting for anyone to announce anything?
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 07:28
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by double_barrel View Post
Or the passengers decided to evacuate on their own initiative rather than waiting for anyone to announce anything?
At least one press report says the evacuation was commanded by the cabin crew:
One passenger described hearing a bang as his flight attempted to take off. Thomas Steer, a 24-year-old estate agent, said the plane had been accelerating for about 15 seconds before there was a “bang on the side of the aircraft, which skidded to a stop”.He said: “It was scary. And then staff shouting: ‘Evacuate, evacuate.’ My friend opened the emergency exit and we slid down the slides. A few old people fell over and the fire brigade treated them.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...borted-takeoff

If events transpired as described, then the cabin crew ordered evacuation and the passengers then used the self-help window exits (and others) to leave the aircraft. That still leaves open questions the cockpit to cabin crew communication.
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 07:39
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Muss say this whole thing doesn't pass the smell test. Even if their procedures allow for cabin crew evac I can't really piece together how they ended up with using slides on both sides... Looking forward to that report !
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 19:52
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Meanwhile the aircraft was still parked up outside the Ryanair hangar at STN earlier this evening with some doors and the rear cargo hold open, and various ground equipment and access ramps around it. Engine reverses stowed and cowls closed.

I couldn't get a decent photo - phones always choose to ask for passcodes to delay you at most inconvenient times!
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 23:20
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by atakacs View Post
Muss say this whole thing doesn't pass the smell test. Even if their procedures allow for cabin crew evac I can't really piece together how they ended up with using slides on both sides... Looking forward to that report !
Cabin crew evac is always allowed. Just like air crew is always allowed to declare an emergency no questions asked.

The questions will come after the fact. See also this old thread: https://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-177665.html
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 04:51
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Even if their procedures allow for cabin crew evac I can't really piece together how they ended up with using slides on both sides... Looking forward to that report !
IF it is the case that Cabin Crew initiated evacuation is allowed on land in a non catastrophic circumstance, and if the engine is already shut down and not burning when they check outside, how do they know which side to go out....
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 11:34
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by compressor stall View Post
IF it is the case that Cabin Crew initiated evacuation is allowed on land in a non catastrophic circumstance, and if the engine is already shut down and not burning when they check outside, how do they know which side to go out....
SOPs vary. My airline only allows CC to initiate if catastrophic and no contact to pilots possible. As FD we don’t state which side to evacuate or not and it’s up to the CC to determine which slides are safe to be used.

If, as in this case, the engine is shutdown and no flames visible but an evacuation still occurs then i’d expect to see all slides used.

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Old 7th Mar 2019, 20:48
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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I agree with your SOPs ECAMSuprise, its the way we do business as well.

My comment was a (maybe too veiled) dig at some previous commentators a few posts back criticising from the comfort of their keyboard the fact that slides were deployed on the failed side.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 21:07
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by compressor stall View Post
I agree with your SOPs ECAMSuprise, its the way we do business as well.

My comment was a (maybe too veiled) dig at some previous commentators a few posts back criticising from the comfort of their keyboard the fact that slides were deployed on the failed side.
I don't see the issue with all slides used.

Regardless who commanded the evac, and even after considering any advice which they must do, it is the remit of the cabin crew to assess the suitability of each individual exit, isn't it?

Last edited by Turbine70; 7th Mar 2019 at 21:26.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 21:24
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Quick survey,whilst on subject,as have just spent 15 months with a company that has no advisory contact with CC in case of rejected takeoff,apart from the evacuate command or cancel alert.
I am used to "Cabin attendants to your stations" or something similar,as a precursor to follow up commands and actions.
What is your company SOP?
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 22:54
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Cabin crew at stations is a good call to enable CC to be aware you are in control.
However, it could also already put them into mindset that an evacuation may not be required.

For any situation where an evacuation may be required, it would be a distraction for flight crew prior to completing any checklists, therefore a no go area.
For any situation where an evacuation may not be required, it would be advantageous to let cabin crew know this using this command. It then enables them to initiate communication with flight crew, who can answer when able, and ensure flight crew are provided additional information they cannot see from their positions. An evacuation may still be required afterwards, but not based on flight deck information. rather additional information unknown to the flight crew at the time.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 23:56
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by compressor stall View Post
I agree with your SOPs ECAMSuprise, its the way we do business as well.

My comment was a (maybe too veiled) dig at some previous commentators a few posts back criticising from the comfort of their keyboard the fact that slides were deployed on the failed side.
I thought so, I just lazily quoted you!

Re a call to crews, we use “Attention, crew at stations!”. This gets the crew up and at their doors, awaiting an evacuation command.

Once the situation is assessed it will either be an evacuation command or “cabin crew normal
operations”.

We also use the same attention call during flight which signals to the crew that something is going on and we are working on it. Stow your trolleys and return to your seats.
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Old 8th Mar 2019, 07:26
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Skyjob..
For any situation where an evacuation may be required, it would be a distraction for flight crew prior to completing any checklists, therefore a no go area.
Que? The "Cabin Crew at Stations" call is part of the flow - at least in Airbus. It's as instinctive as putting the park brake on or ensuring the TLs are not sitting at REV IDLE

If I've aborted I want the Cabin crew alerted ASAP, already assessing the situations, looking out windows, eyeballing pax and foreseeing trouble. It also gives them confidence that I have it under control. I can always sit them down again later.
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Old 8th Mar 2019, 08:54
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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I notice those pax on the side of the runway managed to take their hand luggage items with them.

Nice to know some things don't change.
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