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Pilot shortage - myth or reality?

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Pilot shortage - myth or reality?

Old 21st Aug 2019, 13:07
  #161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by vp89 View Post
Dear All,

Interesting discussion going on about the pilot shortage and their salaries. Just to add some fuel to the fire here is a quick observation: Eurowings, Aerlingus, LOT, even Ryanair have stopped their recruitments recently, while WizzAir and a bunch of other airlines (interestingly, all European) are reducing pace of recruitment. Do they predict approaching another financial crisis? Is it lack of passenger numbers growth at Europe? Is the pilot market so overloaded that the companies simply form a non-ending database of available pilots and call them whenever they are needed? It is a very interesting situation now in Europe...

Best regards,
vp89
Its just the end of the summer, every year the same. I saw you mentioned wizz, well wizz is again on PIlot open days in Greece, Romania, UK, Dubai etc.

paul_v1 is online now  
Old 21st Aug 2019, 19:35
  #162 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Originally Posted by vp89 View Post
Dear All,

Interesting discussion going on about the pilot shortage and their salaries. Just to add some fuel to the fire here is a quick observation: Eurowings, Aerlingus, LOT, even Ryanair have stopped their recruitments recently, while WizzAir and a bunch of other airlines (interestingly, all European) are reducing pace of recruitment. Do they predict approaching another financial crisis? Is it lack of passenger numbers growth at Europe? Is the pilot market so overloaded that the companies simply form a non-ending database of available pilots and call them whenever they are needed? It is a very interesting situation now in Europe...

Best regards,
vp89
Or has the internal and external market suddenly been flooded with Max8 crews who are taking up all the slack for the time being?

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Old 22nd Aug 2019, 14:38
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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Employers that pay poorly = shortage.
Employers that pay well = surplus.
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Old 23rd Aug 2019, 12:11
  #164 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
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To add to GrandPrix's comment:

Pilots: shortage
Panel operators : surplus
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Old 24th Aug 2019, 16:09
  #165 (permalink)  
 
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anyone foresee US Mayors hiring DECs ?
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Old 24th Aug 2019, 18:45
  #166 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MD83FO View Post
anyone foresee US Mayors hiring DECs ?
Nope. Not at a major if the pilots have a union contract. The regionals are different animals even with a union contract.
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Old 25th Aug 2019, 03:22
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bafanguy View Post
Nope. Not at a major if the pilots have a union contract. The regionals are different animals even with a union contract.
Actually, the regionals are exactly the same. The only reason there is DEC at the regionals is lack of experienced FOs.
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Old 25th Aug 2019, 11:53
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hans brinker View Post
Actually, the regionals are exactly the same.
The fact that regionals take DECs, for whatever reason, is what makes them different from the "majors" that MD83FO asked about. It may be that after application of seniority to available openings at a major, captain spots could go pretty far down the list but they won't be DECs in the strictest sense. That was my inartfully-made point.

I don't expect to ever see ads for DECs at UAL, AA, DL, SWA, UPS, FedEX, JB, Spirit or Frontier.
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Old 25th Aug 2019, 12:32
  #169 (permalink)  
 
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It is all about T&Cs. You will never see any legacy in Europe either looking for DECs. A high seniority is somehow the best indication, that the working conditions offered are fair, hence a low seniority the opposite.
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Old 25th Aug 2019, 17:33
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MD83FO View Post
anyone foresee US Mayors hiring DECs ?
At the majors? No. At the regionals? Possibly. You need 1000 hrs Part 121 time to upgrade to Captain. Lots of FO's don't have the required 1,000 hrs so the companies will take junior FO"s with 1,000 hrs of 121 time and upgrade them out of seniority. If the company still doesn't have enough FO's with 1,000 hrs of 121 time to meet the upgrade requirement they'll hire DECS. The DECS will be stuck on the bottom of the Captains list as the FO's eventually get 1,000 hrs 121 time and upgrade.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 03:39
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bafanguy View Post
The fact that regionals take DECs, for whatever reason, is what makes them different from the "majors" that MD83FO asked about. It may be that after application of seniority to available openings at a major, captain spots could go pretty far down the list but they won't be DECs in the strictest sense. That was my inartfully-made point.

I don't expect to ever see ads for DECs at UAL, AA, DL, SWA, UPS, FedEX, JB, Spirit or Frontier.
They have had 4 month captains at DL, and 8 month captains at Fedex. The difference between the US and (most of) the rest is how much seniority affects QOL. I worked in the EU before I came to the US, I had no say in my schedule, was on a salary, and vacation wasn't assigned according to seniority. Those guys at Fedex and DL that took the early will be at the bottom of the reserve list, flying every x-mas and 4th of july for years. Just wanted to emphasize how things are different here, not trying to argue with you.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 10:31
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hans brinker View Post
Just wanted to emphasize how things are different here, not trying to argue with you.
No sweat...didn't think you were.

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Old 15th Sep 2019, 08:57
  #173 (permalink)  
 
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I’m currently flying an A320, this is what I’ve seen so far. The guys who have screwed things for us are P2F guys, fact is any employer would rather hire a guy with 500 hrs and current on type than the Non TR guy who might actually be a better pilot.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 17:29
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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Airline management don't want "better" pilots because better pilots will cost more, they will strive to set WAWCON at just enough to get pilots who meet the minimum standard. Ryanair has set the bar for all other airline execs in this area.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 20:02
  #175 (permalink)  
 
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"The guys that screwed things up for us were P2F guys"

That was obvious a few years ago, and what was going to happen. Nobody did a thing about it. Now a lot of pilots are facing the consequences.
Now it's very hard to fix that.
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Old 16th Sep 2019, 04:33
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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The company I'm working for now is full of p2f drivers, some of whom are quite proud to tell you in the flight deck that they paid for their 320 ratings plus 50k Euro for 500 hrs of 'line training'. The sad reality is in the EU, if you want to make it anywhere in this industry or fast-track your career onto a jet, you better have very deep pockets.
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Old 24th Oct 2019, 11:09
  #177 (permalink)  
 
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U.S.-centric podcast about the "shortage". Mildly interesting if you've got 40 minutes to listen:

https://www.flight-economics.com/fin...ortage-podcast
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Old 24th Oct 2019, 13:59
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bafanguy View Post
The fact that regionals take DECs, for whatever reason, is what makes them different from the "majors" that MD83FO asked about. It may be that after application of seniority to available openings at a major, captain spots could go pretty far down the list but they won't be DECs in the strictest sense. That was my inartfully-made point.

I don't expect to ever see ads for DECs at UAL, AA, DL, SWA, UPS, FedEX, JB, Spirit or Frontier.
Agreed! (and I'm at one of them..)
@Meester proach $150k for a Regional CA is absolutely achievable. Living in base as a Lineholder in your first or second year in the seat.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 05:02
  #179 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Clemente, CA
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Pilot Shortge

I’ve been flying commercially for about 53 years. (40 years airlines and 13 years of private jets after retirement.)
l’ve been hearing about this BS for all those years. Even when airlines were furloughing us every couple of years!
l do however think there is finally a shortage of “STUPID” pilots. Meaning pilots whom used to spend a couple of hundred thousands of Dollars to get a job that pays $20k/yr. Or someone like me who actually flew for $2,000/ mo. as a 727 Captain during furlough from a major airline, because I was too stupid and lazy to go find a real job. Or as the “honey bucket” dumper said “leave aviation?” 😎
Currently the major airlines are spreading this false rumor so they can raise the retirement age one more time. And the commuter carriers are crying Crocodile tears, so the FAA drops the 1,500 hour requirement, in order for them to go back paying their pilots $20K/yr. again!

Last edited by 787PIC; 8th Nov 2019 at 00:46.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 09:19
  #180 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Easyheat View Post
It is all about T&Cs. You will never see any legacy in Europe either looking for DECs. A high seniority is somehow the best indication, that the working conditions offered are fair, hence a low seniority the opposite.

Although that’s exactly what Tui are doing for the ex TC folk, albeit a summer only contract
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