Pilot shortage - myth or reality?
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
The fact that regionals take DECs, for whatever reason, is what makes them different from the "majors" that MD83FO asked about. It may be that after application of seniority to available openings at a major, captain spots could go pretty far down the list but they won't be DECs in the strictest sense. That was my inartfully-made point.
I don't expect to ever see ads for DECs at UAL, AA, DL, SWA, UPS, FedEX, JB, Spirit or Frontier.
I don't expect to ever see ads for DECs at UAL, AA, DL, SWA, UPS, FedEX, JB, Spirit or Frontier.
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: London
It is all about T&Cs. You will never see any legacy in Europe either looking for DECs. A high seniority is somehow the best indication, that the working conditions offered are fair, hence a low seniority the opposite.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,205
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From: US
At the majors? No. At the regionals? Possibly. You need 1000 hrs Part 121 time to upgrade to Captain. Lots of FO's don't have the required 1,000 hrs so the companies will take junior FO"s with 1,000 hrs of 121 time and upgrade them out of seniority. If the company still doesn't have enough FO's with 1,000 hrs of 121 time to meet the upgrade requirement they'll hire DECS. The DECS will be stuck on the bottom of the Captains list as the FO's eventually get 1,000 hrs 121 time and upgrade.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 180
From: USA
The fact that regionals take DECs, for whatever reason, is what makes them different from the "majors" that MD83FO asked about. It may be that after application of seniority to available openings at a major, captain spots could go pretty far down the list but they won't be DECs in the strictest sense. That was my inartfully-made point.
I don't expect to ever see ads for DECs at UAL, AA, DL, SWA, UPS, FedEX, JB, Spirit or Frontier.
I don't expect to ever see ads for DECs at UAL, AA, DL, SWA, UPS, FedEX, JB, Spirit or Frontier.
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 102
Likes: 2
From: Lonely planet
I’m currently flying an A320, this is what I’ve seen so far. The guys who have screwed things for us are P2F guys, fact is any employer would rather hire a guy with 500 hrs and current on type than the Non TR guy who might actually be a better pilot.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,655
Likes: 500
From: Canada
Airline management don't want "better" pilots because better pilots will cost more, they will strive to set WAWCON at just enough to get pilots who meet the minimum standard. Ryanair has set the bar for all other airline execs in this area.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 352
Likes: 1
From: on a beach
"The guys that screwed things up for us were P2F guys"
That was obvious a few years ago, and what was going to happen. Nobody did a thing about it. Now a lot of pilots are facing the consequences.
Now it's very hard to fix that.
That was obvious a few years ago, and what was going to happen. Nobody did a thing about it. Now a lot of pilots are facing the consequences.
Now it's very hard to fix that.
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 102
Likes: 2
From: Lonely planet
The company I'm working for now is full of p2f drivers, some of whom are quite proud to tell you in the flight deck that they paid for their 320 ratings plus 50k Euro for 500 hrs of 'line training'. The sad reality is in the EU, if you want to make it anywhere in this industry or fast-track your career onto a jet, you better have very deep pockets.
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
U.S.-centric podcast about the "shortage". Mildly interesting if you've got 40 minutes to listen:
https://www.flight-economics.com/fin...ortage-podcast
https://www.flight-economics.com/fin...ortage-podcast
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 229
Likes: 2
From: New York
The fact that regionals take DECs, for whatever reason, is what makes them different from the "majors" that MD83FO asked about. It may be that after application of seniority to available openings at a major, captain spots could go pretty far down the list but they won't be DECs in the strictest sense. That was my inartfully-made point.
I don't expect to ever see ads for DECs at UAL, AA, DL, SWA, UPS, FedEX, JB, Spirit or Frontier.
I don't expect to ever see ads for DECs at UAL, AA, DL, SWA, UPS, FedEX, JB, Spirit or Frontier.
@Meester proach $150k for a Regional CA is absolutely achievable. Living in base as a Lineholder in your first or second year in the seat.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 38
Likes: 8
From: San Clemente, CA
Pilot Shortge
I’ve been flying commercially for about 53 years. (40 years airlines and 13 years of private jets after retirement.)
l’ve been hearing about this BS for all those years. Even when airlines were furloughing us every couple of years!
l do however think there is finally a shortage of “STUPID” pilots. Meaning pilots whom used to spend a couple of hundred thousands of Dollars to get a job that pays $20k/yr. Or someone like me who actually flew for $2,000/ mo. as a 727 Captain during furlough from a major airline, because I was too stupid and lazy to go find a real job. Or as the “honey bucket” dumper said “leave aviation?” 😎
Currently the major airlines are spreading this false rumor so they can raise the retirement age one more time. And the commuter carriers are crying Crocodile tears, so the FAA drops the 1,500 hour requirement, in order for them to go back paying their pilots $20K/yr. again!
l’ve been hearing about this BS for all those years. Even when airlines were furloughing us every couple of years!
l do however think there is finally a shortage of “STUPID” pilots. Meaning pilots whom used to spend a couple of hundred thousands of Dollars to get a job that pays $20k/yr. Or someone like me who actually flew for $2,000/ mo. as a 727 Captain during furlough from a major airline, because I was too stupid and lazy to go find a real job. Or as the “honey bucket” dumper said “leave aviation?” 😎
Currently the major airlines are spreading this false rumor so they can raise the retirement age one more time. And the commuter carriers are crying Crocodile tears, so the FAA drops the 1,500 hour requirement, in order for them to go back paying their pilots $20K/yr. again!
Last edited by 787PIC; 7th November 2019 at 23:46.
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Uk
Although that’s exactly what Tui are doing for the ex TC folk, albeit a summer only contract
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
On the corporate side of the "shortage":
"Creative employers are using incentives to help hold on to aviation professionals."
But are they really ?
https://nbaa.org/news/business-aviat...tention-tools/
"Creative employers are using incentives to help hold on to aviation professionals."
But are they really ?
https://nbaa.org/news/business-aviat...tention-tools/
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
From: L.A.
Looks like Boeing intends recruiting hundreds of 737 drivers, to deliver all these grounded Maxes.
Anyone know who is doing the recruiting?
https://www.businessinsider.com/boei...19-8?r=US&IR=T
Silver
Anyone know who is doing the recruiting?
https://www.businessinsider.com/boei...19-8?r=US&IR=T
Silver
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
The article says this about hires:
The workers will "assist and support 737 MAX storage and pre-delivery."
I didn't see a specific mention of pilots being hired to deliver released airplanes. But if Boeing were to make deliveries, they'd need a bunch of pilots. Maybe the airlines buying the stored airplanes would send their own pilots to pick them up ?
The article says to find jobs here. I didn't fizz around to see what specific jobs were listed, if any:
https://jobs.boeing.com/
The workers will "assist and support 737 MAX storage and pre-delivery."
I didn't see a specific mention of pilots being hired to deliver released airplanes. But if Boeing were to make deliveries, they'd need a bunch of pilots. Maybe the airlines buying the stored airplanes would send their own pilots to pick them up ?
The article says to find jobs here. I didn't fizz around to see what specific jobs were listed, if any:
https://jobs.boeing.com/
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
From: Right hand seat of a 777
Personally the market is short of ‘experienced’ pilots, but the other question is ‘what is an experienced pilot?’
At my current outfit, we have 2 lines of recruitment, which is DEFO 3,000hrs+ or a cadet. There are a few who come DEC, like myself, but this is rare within the industry now.
The other aspect of this is the region in the world, each region is different, Asia, for example is forever recruiting and looking for ‘experienced’ pilots..
So it brings me back to my initial point, someone define to me what an ‘experienced’ pilot is!
OMAA
At my current outfit, we have 2 lines of recruitment, which is DEFO 3,000hrs+ or a cadet. There are a few who come DEC, like myself, but this is rare within the industry now.
The other aspect of this is the region in the world, each region is different, Asia, for example is forever recruiting and looking for ‘experienced’ pilots..
So it brings me back to my initial point, someone define to me what an ‘experienced’ pilot is!
OMAA
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 0
From: USofA
Looks like Boeing intends recruiting hundreds of 737 drivers, to deliver all these grounded Maxes.
Anyone know who is doing the recruiting?
https://www.businessinsider.com/boei...19-8?r=US&IR=T
Silver
Anyone know who is doing the recruiting?
https://www.businessinsider.com/boei...19-8?r=US&IR=T
Silver
