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Pilot shortage - myth or reality?

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Pilot shortage - myth or reality?

Old 9th Apr 2019, 11:53
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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50k only? More like 300k, counting with the TR and line training.]
Why would a PTF pilot pay for line training on revenue flights?

ANY decent career will require a period of study, university is not free and never was, someone always paid. In Australia now you pay later once earning over about $40k a year.

I will take my job as a pilot over a desk job any day.

I think you are overstating the cost of obtaining a licence and MECIR.
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 00:09
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Icarus,

While 300k might be a bit of an overstatement, 50k is also a massive understatement. I would love to know where I could log 200 hours, obtaining a CPL & MEIR in Australia for fifty grand.
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 03:54
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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From those 300k, around 180 are for the line training itself, not counting NOT having a salary. If there was any shortage pilots wouldn't be doing this.

I take that a CPL IR in USA must be around 100k plus lodge for a year.
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 11:11
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Where do you take these numbers? EASA fATPL in the Czech Republic from 0 to 200 cost me 33k euro in 2013. Now it's a little bit more expensive, but few grands more.
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 17:24
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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From the guys on the right seat I fly with. I swear one of them even sold his granny's house.
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 18:04
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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It cost me 26k eur (family loan) spread over a year and a half through various clubs and schools back in 2004-05. Did some part time jobs during, like working in a bar, gardening, flt.ops for a charter company, etc. Got a job flying in the bush down in Africa pretty much straight after qualifying, then worked my way up left and right seats of pistons, turboprops before making it to the left seat of a medium jet couple of years ago. Should work the same these days as well if one is happy to put their shiny jet syndrome apart for a short while, just my 2 cents. No offence intended.
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 18:19
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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I recently applied for a job with an air taxi op near Boston flying cessna twins .I had read a story about them having to cancel flights due to a shortage of pilots . Having an Faa Cpl/Ir with some biz jet time, I sent them off my cv with the hope of coming to their rescue and landing myself a handy little number flying back and forward to marthas vineyard only to be told they werent taking on any foreign pilots, period. Ok i dont have a green card and I am a european citizen but surely if the're trying to fill a void in the market and they are "desperate" for crews they will somehow arrange sponsorship/ workpermit for the right guys. Problem solved

Pilot shortage or not, I rest my case.
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 18:39
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Deec,
Do you have any idea how the USA immigration/work visa system operates?
To sponsor you for a Green Card would cost $15-25k and it isnt quick.

Do you even have an FAA license?
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 21:30
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Yes Faa qualified. Surely its easy to organise a work permit which gives you the right to live and work never mind a green card. A lot more companies need to provide sponsorship to pilots if there is a huge shortage in the US. Correct me if Im wrong but does a employer have to advertise a job in another country if it cant get the requirements in their own as long as the candidate is equally qualified and skilled. There was a big push years ago for truck drivers to come and work in the US, work permits and residency assured... Whats the difference ?Why cant they do the same for pilots ? Problem solved
Rest my case !
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 02:58
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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There is only really the E 3 visa for Australian residents. Not sure if it’s days are numbered
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 05:09
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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50k only? More like 300k, counting with the TR and line training.
While 300k might be a bit of an overstatement, 50k is also a massive understatement.
Okay so here are some Australian figures, so Australian dollars.

Commercial Pilot Licence - Melbourne Flight Training

PPL ~ $15,000 CPL ~ $ 33,000 Multi IFR ~ $26,000 TOTAL $74,000. Which is around USD$53,000

Add 10% for variables... Around A$80,000 or USD$ 58,000 to end up with a CPL and Multi engine instrument rating.

Now tell me, what is the cost of an arts or accounting degree at university?

https://student.unsw.edu.au/fees-stu...ribution-rates

Between A$7000 and A$11,000 pa depending on the subject studied. So a three year degree is between A$21,000 and A$33,000 and a four year degree is between A$28,000 and A$44,000

One third to half the cost of pilot training. Who can train more quickly and start earning? Measured against first year salary.

I don't think it is doom and gloom at all for someone looking to become a pilot in 2019.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 23:59
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Icarus, Interesting that your sums suggest a combined 3yr degree and CPL MEIR add up to $107,000(AUD) (assuming your worst case estimate for course fees) - yet the universities in Australia are charging their students close to 150k for aviation degrees.
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 03:26
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Are they really? Do you have a link or can you suggest a university that advertises this?
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 03:53
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Sure can.

UniSA require that you complete a bachelor of aviation. This is a three year course at a 'Band 2' rate of $9,359 per year. Total cost is $28,077. In addition to the Bachelor degree, the practical flying component is complete through concurrent enrolment in a Graduate Diploma in Aviation. UniSA's website states that the total cost for this component is $104,500. All up, the total cost is $132,577.

For UNSW, their aviation program states that the practical flying fees are $130,000 and that this is "in addition to the academic course fees for the Bachelor of Aviation". The academic fees are the same as UniSA (i.e. Band 2, $9,359p.a.). Therefore, the UNSW program total cost is $158,077. Admittedly, the UNSW program includes ATPL theory and exams in addition to CPL & MEIR.
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Old 18th Apr 2019, 23:31
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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While this seems to be more of a US issue, it gets kicked around enough that I'll post this article. It's the first time I've seen the media address the subject of the college degree requirement of some US legacy airlines. They don't cover this from the airline management side to get what they're thinking about it:

https://psmag.com/education/what-an-...gher-education
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Old 23rd May 2019, 16:58
  #116 (permalink)  
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A very interesting article about redundant requirements for becoming a pilot with major US airlines, bafanguy! I do think that European airline industry also has some redundant requirements. I will give you an example. It used to be time, when nobody needed MCC training. But then somebody said that a pilot with MCC is a better pilot. How? Better engagement with the flight and cabin crew? Let it be - fair point. Now it is a default training that every cadet buys. Then somebody invented JOC training. What is the purpose of it? To understand that jet engines are powerful? Fine, if you are going to fly jets. But if you are going to fly dash q400 for 5-8 years, what is the purpose of asking for JOC training (example of Flybe reqruitment)? And now according to EASA and Ryanair, it turns out that MCC and JOC does not make you a better pilot. So... lets introduce some APS training. Another expensive money making machine, which should make you a better pilot. Will it? Probably not. It looks just a business case to take more money from cadets and/or save the pilots job market from newcomers. The same looks to be the case with US higher education requirements for pilots.
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Old 31st May 2019, 10:39
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mryan75

Anyone who gives up an airline captaincy in his early 30s to sit on his ### for the rest of his life staring at a computer screen ought to have his head examined.
not true, he actually quit BA to go fly in China. Guess hes chasing the big bucks to fund his wish, which I believe was to code. Unfortunately it seems everyone wants to come up with the next must have app; and get rich quick.
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 09:07
  #118 (permalink)  

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Unless his videos have been completely fake, more likely he's chasing the time off to persue his non aviation, cash cow plan.
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Old 3rd Jun 2019, 15:54
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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I don't see the logic. If the training is expensive that is one reason why so few pilots can afford it and is one of the prime reasons for the shortage, surely? If it was cheaper there would be more pilots available because more people would be able to afford it.
In the US there is also the requirement for a pilot wishing to fly for an airline to have an ATP with 1500 hours and a very expensive period of time in a major simulator, which all adds a lot to the cost. A youngster in school looks at this and most often decides the cost and time are way not worth it given that she will be nearly as old as Dad when she gets her first real job. Especially if she also wants a four year degree which alone will cost more than the pilot training.
In the good old days one could aspire to an airline job, at least in the Regionals, with around 800 hours which was doable; not much money waiting but there was enough to justify the cost of training. Not so any longer, even with the increase in pilot salaries it will be a long time before any new pilot will break even.
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Old 3rd Jun 2019, 19:08
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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The more difficult it is for new entrants to come in the better it is for current pilots, basic supply and demand.

I ain't complaining ...
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