Pilot shortage - myth or reality?
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 27
Likes: 1
From: close to nowhere
Icarus,
While 300k might be a bit of an overstatement, 50k is also a massive understatement. I would love to know where I could log 200 hours, obtaining a CPL & MEIR in Australia for fifty grand.
While 300k might be a bit of an overstatement, 50k is also a massive understatement. I would love to know where I could log 200 hours, obtaining a CPL & MEIR in Australia for fifty grand.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 496
Likes: 19
From: Ziltoidia... indeed'd.
From those 300k, around 180 are for the line training itself, not counting NOT having a salary. If there was any shortage pilots wouldn't be doing this.
I take that a CPL IR in USA must be around 100k plus lodge for a year.
I take that a CPL IR in USA must be around 100k plus lodge for a year.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 283
Likes: 1
From: Europe
It cost me 26k eur (family loan) spread over a year and a half through various clubs and schools back in 2004-05. Did some part time jobs during, like working in a bar, gardening, flt.ops for a charter company, etc. Got a job flying in the bush down in Africa pretty much straight after qualifying, then worked my way up left and right seats of pistons, turboprops before making it to the left seat of a medium jet couple of years ago. Should work the same these days as well if one is happy to put their shiny jet syndrome apart for a short while, just my 2 cents. No offence intended.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
From: groom lake
I recently applied for a job with an air taxi op near Boston flying cessna twins .I had read a story about them having to cancel flights due to a shortage of pilots . Having an Faa Cpl/Ir with some biz jet time, I sent them off my cv with the hope of coming to their rescue and landing myself a handy little number flying back and forward to marthas vineyard only to be told they werent taking on any foreign pilots, period. Ok i dont have a green card and I am a european citizen but surely if the're trying to fill a void in the market and they are "desperate" for crews they will somehow arrange sponsorship/ workpermit for the right guys. Problem solved
Pilot shortage or not, I rest my case.
Pilot shortage or not, I rest my case.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
From: groom lake
Yes Faa qualified. Surely its easy to organise a work permit which gives you the right to live and work never mind a green card. A lot more companies need to provide sponsorship to pilots if there is a huge shortage in the US. Correct me if Im wrong but does a employer have to advertise a job in another country if it cant get the requirements in their own as long as the candidate is equally qualified and skilled. There was a big push years ago for truck drivers to come and work in the US, work permits and residency assured... Whats the difference ?Why cant they do the same for pilots ? Problem solved
Rest my case !
Rest my case !
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,419
Likes: 853
From: Brisvegas
50k only? More like 300k, counting with the TR and line training.
While 300k might be a bit of an overstatement, 50k is also a massive understatement.
Commercial Pilot Licence - Melbourne Flight Training
PPL ~ $15,000 CPL ~ $ 33,000 Multi IFR ~ $26,000 TOTAL $74,000. Which is around USD$53,000
Add 10% for variables... Around A$80,000 or USD$ 58,000 to end up with a CPL and Multi engine instrument rating.
Now tell me, what is the cost of an arts or accounting degree at university?
https://student.unsw.edu.au/fees-stu...ribution-rates
Between A$7000 and A$11,000 pa depending on the subject studied. So a three year degree is between A$21,000 and A$33,000 and a four year degree is between A$28,000 and A$44,000
One third to half the cost of pilot training. Who can train more quickly and start earning? Measured against first year salary.
I don't think it is doom and gloom at all for someone looking to become a pilot in 2019.
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 27
Likes: 1
From: close to nowhere
Icarus, Interesting that your sums suggest a combined 3yr degree and CPL MEIR add up to $107,000(AUD) (assuming your worst case estimate for course fees) - yet the universities in Australia are charging their students close to 150k for aviation degrees.
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 27
Likes: 1
From: close to nowhere
Sure can.
UniSA require that you complete a bachelor of aviation. This is a three year course at a 'Band 2' rate of $9,359 per year. Total cost is $28,077. In addition to the Bachelor degree, the practical flying component is complete through concurrent enrolment in a Graduate Diploma in Aviation. UniSA's website states that the total cost for this component is $104,500. All up, the total cost is $132,577.
For UNSW, their aviation program states that the practical flying fees are $130,000 and that this is "in addition to the academic course fees for the Bachelor of Aviation". The academic fees are the same as UniSA (i.e. Band 2, $9,359p.a.). Therefore, the UNSW program total cost is $158,077. Admittedly, the UNSW program includes ATPL theory and exams in addition to CPL & MEIR.
UniSA require that you complete a bachelor of aviation. This is a three year course at a 'Band 2' rate of $9,359 per year. Total cost is $28,077. In addition to the Bachelor degree, the practical flying component is complete through concurrent enrolment in a Graduate Diploma in Aviation. UniSA's website states that the total cost for this component is $104,500. All up, the total cost is $132,577.
For UNSW, their aviation program states that the practical flying fees are $130,000 and that this is "in addition to the academic course fees for the Bachelor of Aviation". The academic fees are the same as UniSA (i.e. Band 2, $9,359p.a.). Therefore, the UNSW program total cost is $158,077. Admittedly, the UNSW program includes ATPL theory and exams in addition to CPL & MEIR.
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
While this seems to be more of a US issue, it gets kicked around enough that I'll post this article. It's the first time I've seen the media address the subject of the college degree requirement of some US legacy airlines. They don't cover this from the airline management side to get what they're thinking about it:
https://psmag.com/education/what-an-...gher-education
https://psmag.com/education/what-an-...gher-education
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: N/A
A very interesting article about redundant requirements for becoming a pilot with major US airlines, bafanguy! I do think that European airline industry also has some redundant requirements. I will give you an example. It used to be time, when nobody needed MCC training. But then somebody said that a pilot with MCC is a better pilot. How? Better engagement with the flight and cabin crew? Let it be - fair point. Now it is a default training that every cadet buys. Then somebody invented JOC training. What is the purpose of it? To understand that jet engines are powerful? Fine, if you are going to fly jets. But if you are going to fly dash q400 for 5-8 years, what is the purpose of asking for JOC training (example of Flybe reqruitment)? And now according to EASA and Ryanair, it turns out that MCC and JOC does not make you a better pilot. So... lets introduce some APS training. Another expensive money making machine, which should make you a better pilot. Will it? Probably not. It looks just a business case to take more money from cadets and/or save the pilots job market from newcomers. The same looks to be the case with US higher education requirements for pilots.
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 241
Likes: 47
From: Runcorn,Cheshire,England
not true, he actually quit BA to go fly in China. Guess he’s chasing the big bucks to fund his wish, which I believe was to code. Unfortunately it seems everyone wants to come up with the next must have app; and get rich quick.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
From: Pacific
I don't see the logic. If the training is expensive that is one reason why so few pilots can afford it and is one of the prime reasons for the shortage, surely? If it was cheaper there would be more pilots available because more people would be able to afford it.
In the US there is also the requirement for a pilot wishing to fly for an airline to have an ATP with 1500 hours and a very expensive period of time in a major simulator, which all adds a lot to the cost. A youngster in school looks at this and most often decides the cost and time are way not worth it given that she will be nearly as old as Dad when she gets her first real job. Especially if she also wants a four year degree which alone will cost more than the pilot training.
In the good old days one could aspire to an airline job, at least in the Regionals, with around 800 hours which was doable; not much money waiting but there was enough to justify the cost of training. Not so any longer, even with the increase in pilot salaries it will be a long time before any new pilot will break even.
In the US there is also the requirement for a pilot wishing to fly for an airline to have an ATP with 1500 hours and a very expensive period of time in a major simulator, which all adds a lot to the cost. A youngster in school looks at this and most often decides the cost and time are way not worth it given that she will be nearly as old as Dad when she gets her first real job. Especially if she also wants a four year degree which alone will cost more than the pilot training.
In the good old days one could aspire to an airline job, at least in the Regionals, with around 800 hours which was doable; not much money waiting but there was enough to justify the cost of training. Not so any longer, even with the increase in pilot salaries it will be a long time before any new pilot will break even.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
From: Pacific
That is short sighted. If there are not enough pilots then companies will shrink or go out of business, leading to a job shortage which might leave YOU out to dry.