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USA Today: UA forcibly remove random pax from flight

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USA Today: UA forcibly remove random pax from flight

Old 11th Apr 2017, 01:50
  #181 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
B1

If you're mentioning it, then you clearly know those pax were flying on pass privledges (flying for free or deeply discounted ) and as such were Subject to a dress code.

This is why UA likely won't do much , they get hammered by people who don't understand the situation and opine ignorantly, so why bother.
There is this new thing out there called "social media" that you might want to check out.

It has a tendency to override subtleties like this, and companies still have to deal with it. There is no excuse for the PR department of any large corporation failing to understand how this works, or that every phone is now a camera.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 01:52
  #182 (permalink)  
 
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A person that was on the flight posted this on social media which explains why the passenger came back onboard the aircraft... Truly unbelievable that the authorities "lost him". This keeps getting better.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9FWFS1UIAA0der.jpg:large
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 01:55
  #183 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Amadis of Gaul View Post
That's not entirely true, is it? Nobody is being called in front of anyone yet, so far only one member of said committee has requested a hearing. Guess we'll see if and when said hearing happens.
The U.S. Department of Transportation is investigating a Monday incident in which a 69-year-old man was forcibly dragged from an overbooked United Airlines plane...


Feds Now Looking Into United Airlines Incident - The Daily Beast
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 02:00
  #184 (permalink)  
 
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Photo

I believe UA has a presence on social media, they're all over twitter for sure. That still can't stop the ignorance of the crowd who latched onto the "legging" story without knowing they were Subject to a dress code that didn't apply to revenue pax. People even when the truth is easily accessible choose to be ignorant.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 02:09
  #185 (permalink)  
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People may choose to be ignorant but one of the key ideas of 'capitalism' is that it adapts to new markets and how things change. Supposedly ...

But old companies get too big and have too many rules and have no possibility of adapting. Eventually, they fall and die. It's just the 'cycle of life'.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 02:10
  #186 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Photo

I believe UA has a presence on social media, they're all over twitter for sure. That still can't stop the ignorance of the crowd who latched onto the "legging" story without knowing they were Subject to a dress code that didn't apply to revenue pax. People even when the truth is easily accessible choose to be ignorant.
You can beat that to death, but what the public is seeing is two 10 yr olds denied boarding for attire that 85% of women wear every day...What you're flunking is basic public relations messaging...and you're failing in a willful manner. I used to fly on my ex wife's passes, and the dress code was f-ing stupid. I flew first class on biz for my entire career, and the first thing I'd do in the Ambassador Club is change into levis and tennis shoes. Yet to fly in the same seat on a pass I had to be wearing a jacket and tie? It's an airborne bus, not Mar A Lago.

Enough diversion...you really need to re-think the physical abuse of fare paying passengers. There is no way to paint it that makes you look good.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 02:12
  #187 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Photo

I believe UA has a presence on social media, they're all over twitter for sure. That still can't stop the ignorance of the crowd who latched onto the "legging" story without knowing they were Subject to a dress code that didn't apply to revenue pax. People even when the truth is easily accessible choose to be ignorant.
From United's carriage contract...

"Passengers who are barefoot or not properly clothed;"

Although I agree on wearing proper clothing, who decides what is proper? Do they have a specific book with descriptions of what is proper and not proper?

I have seen far worst dressed people on airlines than girls wearing leggings.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 02:23
  #188 (permalink)  
 
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CEO Blames passenger, calls him disruptive and belligerent.

What an idiot!

United CEO Oscar Munoz Calls Passenger "Disruptive and Belligerent" | Fortune.com
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 02:24
  #189 (permalink)  
 
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Employee manuals discuss non rev dress code and etiquette, not terms of Carriage. The person who sent the Yong ladies traveling (on his or her travel privledges ) erred in letting them do so in leggings.

You do make a point, many people are ignorant and no matter how much someone tries to educate them, they remain ignorant. First heard, that's then gospel no matter how much education is tried.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 02:27
  #190 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SalNichols View Post
you really need to re-think the physical abuse of fare paying passengers. There is no way to paint it that makes you look good.
For United Airlines (and Republic, and every other airline out there): The above comment is a simple and accurate summing up of the issue.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 02:31
  #191 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Employee manuals discuss non rev dress code and etiquette, not terms of Carriage. The person who sent the Yong ladies traveling (on his or her travel privledges ) erred in letting them do so in leggings.

You do make a point, many people are ignorant and no matter how much someone tries to educate them, they remain ignorant. First heard, that's then gospel no matter how much education is tried.
The carriage rule still points out to a proper etiquette for the dress code.

Granted the in-house policy also applies for people travelling on passes but I'll bet you 99% of female travelers that travel on a pass would have travelled that day wearing leggings but unfortunately fell on a pissed off gate agent that wanted to show who was the boss.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 02:39
  #192 (permalink)  
 
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You've no way of knowing any of that wrt to likelihood of making it on.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 02:50
  #193 (permalink)  
 
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"West Coast" and others - This incident is much more serious than denied boarding due to dress code.

It is appalling for you people defending UA and the police for their actions. On other videos when he is back on board, his injuries are clearly visible.

These passengers was NOT DENIED boarding, they had already taken their seats and boarded, that was it. This was the company OPS who had messed up, and sure they could offer financial offers to get people to leave their seats, but DH does not have any god given right to be given a seat on an aircraft that has been fully booked and the passengers have already boarded.

I have seen DH crew been bumped because flights have been full, or been made to sit on the jump seat in cabin or / and cockpit. But it is unheard of that already boarded passengers is forced of the aircraft.

That some of you can defend the indefensible actions of the UA crew and the police is beyond me. The UA crew would have told police to get the passenger of no matter what.

Any actions performed on the aircraft should be under supervision and with permission of the Commander.

This passenger had until been ordered to remove himself from the aircraft, not said a word against the crew.

Now if someone orders you of a flight in such a situation, how many of you would not get upset and give your piece of mind?

I am sorry the DH Crew had no exceptional priority, this should be clear, and I am pretty sure that in the contract given the passengers, it's not written that DH Crew shall have any priority, furthermore they can not be calculated as over-booked, as they are not paying passengers.

This is a mess up by the OPS department, and if they have managed to get into this situation, that they don't have enough crew at some base, for sure the passengers should not be the once suffering for this. OPS should have found another way to have moved their crew or had some foresight so they did not end in this situation.

However more importantly, the way the passenger was removed, sorry that's a criminal offence, and it seems the passengers injuries happen on the aircraft, as the police was carrying out orders from the Commander to have the innocent passenger removed by force, based on an unknown selection criteria.

Just because you are aircrew, does not make you some special privileged entity, that are more important than others. What an ignorant and arrogant attitude you have "West Coast"
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 02:52
  #194 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by peekay4 View Post
We seem to have already forgotten that this was a Republic Airlines flight, and the incident could have happened as easily on one of Republic's other codeshares with American or Delta.
That is true but the public only hear United. The media only know United and the Ts&Cs will be United.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 03:01
  #195 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by peekay4 View Post
We seem to have already forgotten that this was a Republic Airlines flight, and the incident could have happened as easily on one of Republic's other codeshares with American or Delta.
What was the livery on the AC?
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 03:05
  #196 (permalink)  
 
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Truck

Quite simply, you're wrong. Moving crews is a priority for the airline. 4 pax bumped or 70 plus cancelled pax pissed because a crew isn't in position, that's just for the first flight missed. It ain't pretty but it's the airline life.

I can say with certainty that the agents didn't want this to end this way, and it didn't for the other 3. That the fourth felt he wasn't subject to getting booted and pushed it to the point of refusing the LEOs order to leave under his own power, well, he deserves blame.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 03:06
  #197 (permalink)  
 
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Officer Who Dragged Bloodied Passenger From United Flight Suspended

Chicago airport security officer who helped drag a United Airlines passenger off a plane by his arms, bloodying his lip as horrified passengers protested and recorded the episode on their smartphones Sunday night at O'Hare International Airport, was placed on leave Monday. ...

"The incident ... was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by our Department. The officer has been placed on leave effective today and pending a thorough review of the situation."
More from: https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/u...-ohare-airport
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 03:07
  #198 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by John Marsh View Post
Waas this explained to him?
Originally Posted by Journey Man View Post
I think they only got as far as RNAV 5 before he was hauled off...
Glad to see some professional pilot humor still allowed here on PPRuNe.

Here's the email United CEO Oscar Muñoz sent to the employees this evening:

Dear Team,

Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.

As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.

I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.

Oscar

Summary of Flight 3411

. On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.

. We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.

. He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.

. Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.

. Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 03:11
  #199 (permalink)  
 
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I guess US airlines have less regards for their Pax than in Europe. As I have seen the exact opposite happen, Crews been left behind.

This stinks bad management by the company, if you can't foresee this problem in advance than you should find another job.

UA in this case should have offered more money until they got the seats they needed. You can have a business man missing a million dollar deal because suddenly the airline decides they want his ticket back.

How will cover such consequential loss suffered by passengers how have paid their seat, and have been allowed to board?
As long as they follow the rules, that seat belongs to the passengers, otherwise airlines would not be offering money to get the seats back.

Regardless does not justify to remove an embarked passenger this barbaric way.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 03:21
  #200 (permalink)  
 
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The good doctor choose the method of eviction. There's nothing magical about making it through L1. There's no absolute rights when you're on private property. He could have simply walked off, he made the decision to push to situation as far as he did.
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