Samsung Tablet / phone problems (Combined)
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Samsung is now setting up booths at airports where travellers "stuck" with the Note 7 can hand it in for a refund or exchange on the spot.
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KelvinD Yes, indeed...it was purchased brand new from eBay from a "reputable power seller" (I wanted the dual sim variant - hence eBay)..Who refused to accept it back and insisted I take it up with Samsung. I'm currently stuck in dispute process on that eBay front...and also pursuing Samsung on another as no courier firm will officially accept it for transportation. eBay said Samsung will provide fire proof boxes, but it turns out that is for the US market only. eBay are now saying they will refund me if the seller doesn't collect it and / or Samsung don't get in touch within the next few days. So good on eBay, shame on Samsung. It's been 4 weeks now since I purchased the phone, and actually would have been happy to swap it for an S7edge; but now I'm far from sold on Samsung as their actual actions on this have been almost incompetent. The people manning the support lines seem very confused themselves..and just promise a callback which never happens. They just haven't got their s**t together on this at all..stalls springing up at airports to provide replacements is just a media/PR side show. Twitter is full of people who have been left high and dry on this despite being loyal customers.
The Samsung brand is very much tainted now in my mind, and in the mind of many others, I'm afraid. Heard about a Lufthansa pilot yesterday announcing that the S7 was banned on his aeroplane, clearly an honest mistake, but the contagion to the whole range is sadly inevitable.
The Samsung brand is very much tainted now in my mind, and in the mind of many others, I'm afraid. Heard about a Lufthansa pilot yesterday announcing that the S7 was banned on his aeroplane, clearly an honest mistake, but the contagion to the whole range is sadly inevitable.
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That article says "..allow Note 7 owners to swap their phone for an unspecified exchange device".... when you've paid £750 for a smartphone an "unspecified exchange device" sounds a little vague...and it doesn't look like these booths are in many places yet (UK?). Sorry to sound a little cynical, but it seems like its a PR damage limitation stunt to me; but I'm now a grumpy customer of course!
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XX621, Don't give up on the brand (I never thought I would find myself defending a brand of any sort!). I think their record up to this debacle has been pretty good. I don't know the numbers but it seems to me the incidents involving these phones is pretty low considering the number of phones sold. If you compare Samsung's handling of this compared to various models of car that get out there with latent defects and the record of the manufacturers dealing with these defects, there is no comparison. Look at how Vauxhall dealt with Zafira fires. Even a couple of years after customers, BBC Watchdog etc highlighted this, Vauxhall kept to their denials. Then they admitted there really was a problem, issued a recall to fix them and then had to issue a second recall shortly after that! Then there was the Ford Pinto scandal in the 70s with rather a lot of people killed by the known shortcomings with fuel tanks. So, balanced against that sort of thing, Samsung have reacted quite well.
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True, all accepted. But the main perception issue of course is that they were sure the issue was purely isolated to the battery; when it now seems it's much more complicated. So questions are being raised with regard their engineering and QC processes. Personally my money is on a combination of issues; one of them being the fast charging and buggy implementation of the USB-C power specification (the Note7 is the first Samsung phone to use a USB-C socket).
Such a shame, it really is a great device.
Such a shame, it really is a great device.
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As someone who spent much of my working life investigating 'failures' of newly introduced products, it is extremely difficult to determine when you have covered all possibilities and when you decide that there is no further information (which might contradict your conclusion) to collect.
It is only when you can predictably reproduce the 'failure' (which, by its nature was intermittent) that you can begin to be complacent.
By the nature of these Note 7 events, it is unlikely that much can be determined from examination of the remains - even if the evidence can be recovered and returned for examination.
It is only when you can predictably reproduce the 'failure' (which, by its nature was intermittent) that you can begin to be complacent.
By the nature of these Note 7 events, it is unlikely that much can be determined from examination of the remains - even if the evidence can be recovered and returned for examination.
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Agreed - and I've read that Samsung engineers have been unable to reproduce the failure. In my line of work, if you haven't reproduced the issue you haven't fixed the issue - so this leads to questions about the judgement surrounding the first recall in my mind if they hadn't reproduced the thermal runaways. My unit was (initially) deemed "safe" due to the battery manufacturer being ATL, and I've never seen the battery rise above 31degC even during fast charging. It must be a very specific set of swiss holes lining up to result in the failures observed, perhaps the owner(s) dropping the unit in a certain way could be one variable?
I note Samsung have said they will throw everything they have at identifying the fault and ensuring no repeat in their future products, but what if they fail to for possibly the reasons you outline (they give up to reproduce the fault)? The big burning (pun intended..) question in the battery industry is will they share the results of their investigation. I think they have no choice. Trust has been lost, they need to rebuild it, and transparency is a pre-requisite in the trust rebuild. They've already lost massive ground to Apple now and the new Google Pixel phone...I hope they pull it back from the brink; they were clearly leading Apple in terms of innovation (Apple have been on the back foot for a while now to Samsung imho).
I note Samsung have said they will throw everything they have at identifying the fault and ensuring no repeat in their future products, but what if they fail to for possibly the reasons you outline (they give up to reproduce the fault)? The big burning (pun intended..) question in the battery industry is will they share the results of their investigation. I think they have no choice. Trust has been lost, they need to rebuild it, and transparency is a pre-requisite in the trust rebuild. They've already lost massive ground to Apple now and the new Google Pixel phone...I hope they pull it back from the brink; they were clearly leading Apple in terms of innovation (Apple have been on the back foot for a while now to Samsung imho).
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Being flamed for wondering if placing a battery in water was such a good idea without research I thought was logical. Being an electronics engineer with some experience in metal working I do know some metals will burn fiercely, powdered aluminium with an oxidiser is an explosive. So my question was answered cooling is needed and the conductivity of the water is not a factor. But Lithium ion batteries do have a history of thermal runaway when shorted. Sony found that out with its laptop batteries a few years ago and that was due to internal shorts plusTesla cars in crash situations do catch fire but other Lithium chemistries do not like LiFePO4 but not so compact. So I guess based on the information the battery becomes so hot that the plastics in the phone catches fire rather than the chemicals in the battery which go exothermic when shorted, so the only way to contain it is plunge it in water.
It would seem Samsung have not isolated the problem as yet, so how can they give out known good phones. With Sony the problem was micro shorts across an internal insulating membrane, believe solved by improvement in manufacturing control.
This smells of a similar problem, with a little in use mechanical stressing, bang. So Samsung may have pushed the internal limits to far to up the capacity.
It would seem Samsung have not isolated the problem as yet, so how can they give out known good phones. With Sony the problem was micro shorts across an internal insulating membrane, believe solved by improvement in manufacturing control.
This smells of a similar problem, with a little in use mechanical stressing, bang. So Samsung may have pushed the internal limits to far to up the capacity.
Last edited by horizon flyer; 27th Oct 2016 at 12:34.
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There is another possibility. Some third party software 'app' suppliers are selling 'fast charging' software. It may be that this software bypasses or disables built in protections in these phones and pushes the charging rate to an unsafe level. This could immediately cause problems or more likely after several cycles of charging and overheating then cooling. the stresses cause a failure and thermal runaway.
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Those "fast charging" apps do not increase charging rates or bypass protections in any way. They simply work by reducing consumption, e.g., by temporarily suspending background apps, disabling WiFi & Bluetooth, reducing the LCD brightness, etc.
The actual battery charging logic is managed by a dedicated IC that's hardwired for thermal regulation, over-voltage conditions, etc., and thus these protections cannot be removed via software.
The actual battery charging logic is managed by a dedicated IC that's hardwired for thermal regulation, over-voltage conditions, etc., and thus these protections cannot be removed via software.
The actual battery charging logic is managed by a dedicated IC that's hardwired for thermal regulation, over-voltage conditions, etc., and thus these protections cannot be removed via software.
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These ICs actually work extremely well and are designed to remain safe in case of a failure (e.g, blowing an irreversible fuse if a problem is detected).
Plus modern battery system designs usually incorporate secondary over-voltage protections, and then layer in software protections on top that (such as charging timeouts).
In fact I've never heard of a widespread battery issue due to complete protection system failure. Not saying it can't or has never happened, but that it would be quite rare.
There are however many cheap products built without any protection ICs, or with inadequate or counterfeit ICs, etc. Many cheap e-cigarretes and so called "hoverboards" fall into this category. I've even seen protection devices on boards that's not connected to anything -- designed to fool casual inspection by customs officials, etc.
But assuming proper design, battery failure is more likely to be caused by a manufacturing defect inside the battery itself, or due to a physical damage of some sort, or due to some sort of misuse.
Plus modern battery system designs usually incorporate secondary over-voltage protections, and then layer in software protections on top that (such as charging timeouts).
In fact I've never heard of a widespread battery issue due to complete protection system failure. Not saying it can't or has never happened, but that it would be quite rare.
There are however many cheap products built without any protection ICs, or with inadequate or counterfeit ICs, etc. Many cheap e-cigarretes and so called "hoverboards" fall into this category. I've even seen protection devices on boards that's not connected to anything -- designed to fool casual inspection by customs officials, etc.
But assuming proper design, battery failure is more likely to be caused by a manufacturing defect inside the battery itself, or due to a physical damage of some sort, or due to some sort of misuse.
