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Samsung Tablet / phone problems (Combined)

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Samsung Tablet / phone problems (Combined)

Old 24th Sep 2016, 10:45
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Samsung Tablet / phone problems (Combined)

Plane crew douse smoking Samsung phone - BBC News

Seems like it could've ended badly. Well handled, but I guess it would get the adrenaline going at the time...
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Old 24th Sep 2016, 14:25
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Nothing like a good old douse with BCF.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 00:53
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Do crews receive training on how to handle a burning lithium battery as the metal can be very reactive and placing it water may not be the best idea it shorts the battery. Also some metals can ripe the oxygen out of the water and keep burning. Just wonder if any research has been done on the best way to extinguish one.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 02:42
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Lithium being an alkali metal can react with water to form hydrogen gas (which is explosive in air) as follows:

2 Li + 2 H2O -> 2 Li+ + 2 OH- + H2

However, apart from Li being the least reactive among the alkali metals, there is no metallic Li in rechargeable Li-Ion batteries (as opposed to non-rechargeable Li cells).

Immersion in water works well for Li-Ion battery fires simply because water quickly absorbs excess heat, i.e. cools down the battery such that any thermal runaway reaction can no longer proceed.

Last edited by olandese_volante; 25th Sep 2016 at 02:44. Reason: tweak
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 05:35
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Battery Fires

The correct information is contained in: ( Emergency Response Guidance for Aircraft Incidents Involving Dangerous Goods”ICAO Doc 9481 N/928).

EASA issued a SIB regarding the use of these checklists. The UK CAA subsequently issued a comprehensive set of checklists as well.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 05:44
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Stop saying water douse is bad.

Originally Posted by horizon flyer
Do crews receive training on how to handle a burning lithium battery as the metal can be very reactive and placing it water may not be the best idea it shorts the battery. Also some metals can ripe the oxygen out of the water and keep burning. Just wonder if any research has been done on the best way to extinguish one.
I happen to have a friend who happens to have an advanced degree from a serious school, who happened to spend a substantial part of the last few years of his working career tormenting various sort of lithium batteries, often to the point of destruction, occasionally to the point of violent, catastrophic destruction. The did so in the employ of a major organization with the clearest possible reason to seek the correct answer.

I asked him this question just a few days ago, and he was utterly unambiguous. According to both direct experimental test and physical understanding the best way to handle a smoldering lithium ion battery gadget is submerge it in water. The basic mechanism is cooling. There is no lithium in metallic form present in the battery. People citing their high school chemistry to claim danger from the use of water for this purpose are dead wrong.

None of this was any surprise to me but apparently the word still has not spread to some of those spreading their wisdom here.

Of course, neither he nor I are pilots, so mere knowledge of the subject may not count here.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 06:26
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The procedure is written into the Part E manuals, and submersion in water is correct to most effectively reduce the temperature. Our Part E is quite emphatic about not using ice as it is far less effective and could in fact provide some level of thermal insulation.

My concern is more where they put it - the galley is an easier place to maintain observation of the item than the toilet, and the environment in the galley is less combustible than the toilet area.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 07:08
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Our flight attendants are trained for this annually, since it has become a bigger issue. Any fluid will help really. Coke, Sprite, water, gin, you name it. Pleeease not the gin tho.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 08:54
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We have these, or something similar

Firebags Can Snuff Out Onboard Li-ion Battery Fires | Business Aviation News: Aviation International News
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 10:55
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At the start of a flight yesterday, the cabin crew made specific reference to the Samsung device battery issue, concerning it's use in the cabin, not charging it on board and alerting staff if any such device was in hold baggage.

Never heard that before, but was very pleased to hear them covering this in the saftey brief nontheless.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 13:02
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Originally Posted by Local Variation View Post
At the start of a flight yesterday, the cabin crew made specific reference to the Samsung device battery issue, concerning it's use in the cabin, not charging it on board and alerting staff if any such device was in hold baggage.
What, I wonder, would have happened in response to a passenger advising that they had a phone on their hold baggage ?
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 14:52
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Well, I was once summoned by our cabin crew to speak to a lady who insisted on talking to the captain.

'I've left my mobile phone in my hold baggage, and it's switched on', she honestly stated.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 15:32
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Well worth watching:

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Old 25th Sep 2016, 17:15
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One never ceases to be amazed at what we can 'learn' on these fora:

@horizon flyer
how to handle a burning lithium battery as the metal can be very reactive
How exactly does that work then? There is no metallic lithium in the battery!

placing it water may not be the best idea it shorts the battery.
How exactly does that work then? A 'short circuit' is a zero Ohm load on the battery - water cannot possibly do that!

Also some metals can ripe the oxygen out of the water and keep burning.
How exactly does this work then? The only thing 'ripe' in all this nonsense appears to be your imagination!

Why make up this nonsense? Why present your misunderstandings and false theories as facts? I'd keep them to yourself if you don't want others to 'ripe' the p1$$.!
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 20:33
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Originally Posted by Local Variation View Post
At the start of a flight yesterday, the cabin crew made specific reference to the Samsung device battery issue, concerning it's use in the cabin, not charging it on board and alerting staff if any such device was in hold baggage.

Never heard that before, but was very pleased to hear them covering this in the saftey brief nontheless.
Yes, on a flight on Friday the gate agents prebriefed that Samsung note 7s must be switched off and not charged during flight. That was then repeated by the FAs prior to the safety brief
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 21:03
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Originally Posted by pilotmike View Post
One never ceases to be amazed at what we can 'learn' on these fora:
Indeed! Like this gem:

Originally Posted by pilotmike View Post
A 'short circuit' is a zero Ohm load on the battery - water cannot possibly do that!
Take a wire and 'short out' a battery until the wire melts. I think you'd agree this is a 'short circuit' by any reasonable person's definition. The resistance can NOT be zero ohms, otherwise the wire would not heat up. Think about it.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 23:23
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OK, just for you, core dump.

horizon flyer was trying to teach us that "placing it water may not be the best idea it shorts the battery." That is utter nonsense.

Your efforts to liken water's effect on a battery (many hundreds or thousands of Ohms, and negligible Wattage) to a wire ( a few tenths of an Ohm, and many Watts) is as flawed as horizon's thinking. Water across the terminals of a battery behaves nothing like being shorted with a wire whatsoever.

Your further quibble about whether a wire is effectively zero Ohms is a totally bogus argument which detracts from the very important issue of how to deal with such a dangerous situation in flight.

Putting a smouldering runaway Li Ion battery in water is EXACTLY the right move, for the very reasons given by numerous more knowledgeable contrinutors than either horizon or yourself.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 23:51
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Originally Posted by pilotmike View Post
Your efforts to liken water's effect on a battery (many hundreds or thousands of Ohms, and negligible Wattage)
I made no effort to liken water's effect on a battery. I made no comment about water nor Li Ion batteries in this thread.

But since you brought it up: The resistance of water depends on the distance between the battery terminals and the amount of contaminants in the water. Since both are variable, it would be improper to say that water always has a resistance of "hundreds or thousands of ohms" when surrounding any given battery. Short terminal spacing and salty water (margarita? who knows) would result in far less resistance than you think. But still I never claimed it was a bad idea to dump a li ion battery in water.

A little off-topic, but interesting tidbit: On every one I've tested, the little light on the Mae West doesn't activate in fresh water. Only saltwater.
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Old 26th Sep 2016, 00:02
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Don't try this at home:


(at 110 volts and much higher amperage than typical batteries)
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Old 26th Sep 2016, 12:07
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Heard a briefing last week where we were told 'please tell a member of the cabin crew if you have a Samsung 7 in your hold luggage so we can delay the flight'.

Unlikely to get the desired result, I suggest.....
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