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EASY_OUT

Old 24th Jun 2016, 12:23
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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OldLurker, Your consideration seems to strengthen my point.

You are right that being disallowed overflight of the UK would be a major inconvenience for continental EU operators. However, the UK airlines would not be better off, were the EU to play "tit for tat" here and forbid UK companies from crossing EU airspace, would they? Then it will be either the northern route around Norway or the southern one around Portugal and Spain, should an UK aircraft wish to fly to or from Asia.

While this split is most regrettable in my eyes, it ought to be executed in a civilized manner with Gentlemen on both sides of the table. No need to wheel out perceived strenghts that may well turn into weaknesses upon closer examination. From both sides.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 12:35
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Does FR still hold the old Buzz AOC. What's involved in getting it resurrected if they needed to?
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 12:36
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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EZY will probably just do what Norwegian did: register in Ireland or any EU country that is willing and use that to benefit for intra EU rights.

Traffic to/from EU is mainly Loco for leisure and legacy to London and/or Oil. The latter will diminished post 2018.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 12:36
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Ryanair had full page adverts for remain,as we all know that union recognition is an important right within Eire,by law…oh we got round that one.As far as EASA goes they have made massive inroads into altimeter accuracy in RVSM ,whoopee bloody do!
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 12:38
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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"Community Air Carrier" is defined in EU regulations as being substantially owned and effectively controlled by EU nationals. Interpretation is left to each MS when issuing an AOC.

if the remaining MS's enforce these provisions there will not be an EU-Easy that is owned and controlled by UK-Easy. In some jurisdictions these O&C rules are more than 51% ownership (US is 75%) and require nationals in all senior management positions.

Swiss-Easy is 51% owned by Swiss nationals but 100% controlled by UK-Easy. The Swiss don't care, nor do the other 27, at the moment. I foresee difficult times for them as well.

I'd expect a strict interpretation here, as will the UK in registering any UK-Ryanair.

Edited to add: And I don't see an easy ride for IAG. IAG's airlines can be either EU or British, not both. And here it will be third countries determining if IB is EU, or BA is British. BA without traffic rights is just a domestic airline.

Last edited by ExXB; 24th Jun 2016 at 12:56.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 12:47
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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terrain safe posted.......

"uote: Originally Posted by Giggey
Norvegian everyone? Nothing will change....
Norway are in the European Economic Area. Which means free movement of people...."

I think he is talking about the airline, not the nation.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 13:01
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Pineridge - Norway is in the ECAA, meaning their airlines are community air carriers, because they are in the EEA. The EEA puts Norway into the 'free movement of people' camp.

Britain can do the same, join the EEA, and there could be status quo ante. But why Brexit if status quo on free movement is acceptable.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 13:23
  #28 (permalink)  
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That would be the best joke ever. Leaving the EU because of the "dictatorship" in Brussels and then join the EEA where you are not on the table and have nothing to say about the rules. On the other side, why should they want the UK as a member? We can still fly to/from the UK, like UK airlines can do the same to the EU, but no UK airline can fly within the EU, but no EU airline wants to fly within the UK.

@OldLurker then you should plan your next holiday on the Falklands or look for a train to get to Spain
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 13:50
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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exDubai - So as a result of Britain deciding to leave the EU, easyJet will set up another European operation in a country that is not a member of the EU? I don't see the logic.

I also can not imagine us being hit with hefty EU tariffs. We have traded with Europe for centuries (give or take the odd war) as we have with rest of the world. It is in our interests as it is with Europe's to trade with the minimum of fuss. Open markets, well documented standards and clear legal systems are essential and that is what I signed up to in 1975. And that is what we can still achieve with our European friends and neighbours. And they want the same. But until yesterday, we did not have the right to say "No!" Now we can and we can also do the same with the rest of the world.

Will we lose jobs as a result of this outcome? Bloody hell yes. For a start our lovely bankers will have to take their casino/gambling operations to Frankurt (with the inherent risks of such undertakings) and the downsized City might eventually become an asset to our country. But short term, nothing will happen. The big rocks from the explosion will fall back to earth over the next few days and the dust will settle for a few months. Then we'll see what's left and set about working towards a prosperous future with our friends and neighbours.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 14:05
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Piltdown Man Don't now where they will setup an operation. But it's easy for them to use their swiss AOC because the agreements between Switzerland and the EU are in place.

For the rest, wait and see. Interesting times ahead....
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 14:48
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Don't underestimate the clout that LH has inside the EU.

http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...ml#post8419190

It might not be as easy ( like the pun ? ) as many would like.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 15:14
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Wow! The voting is all over, but still the BS scaremongering continues.

Firstly, nothing is going to change for some considerable time, between 2 and 5 years.

Secondly, plenty of other EU nations are likely to have similar referendums, so we won't be alone in our region, and in all probability this is a fatal blow for the EU and it'll break apart completely over then next 5-10 years.

Thirdly, not being in the EU doesn't prevent trade. The UK aren't pulling up drawbridges and the Europeans aren't likely to either. The EU might be indignant enough to try, but I suspect negotiations would not be with the EU but the individual Sovreign governments because of the paragraph above.

British aviation managed just fine before the EU, arguably a lot better in market share (especially manufacturing). All the doom mongering is some dark fantasy by malevolent mentalities.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 15:30
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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But no EU airline wants to fly within the UK.
Er, Ryanair? They also want to fly from the UK to EU countries other than Ireland.

Easy very much wants to continue their intra EU (except UK) and EU domestic flights.

Aluminium shufflers, please use Jet Blast.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 15:32
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Firstly, nothing is going to change for some considerable time, between 2 and 5 years.
Actually, exactly 2 years from invoking invoking article 50 of the treaty of lisbon. Yes, that timeframe can be extendet if both sides agree on that, however, dont expect the EU to show any inclination to that.

Secondly, plenty of other EU nations are likely to have similar referendums, so we won't be alone in our region, and in all probability this is a fatal blow for the EU and it'll break apart completely over then next 5-10 years.
Exactly to prevent any similar referendums the EU is forced to play hardball to the extreme. And of course promise those parts of the UK that would rather be independent a fast track entry back in to the club.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 15:34
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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WOW, it's funny to read how the whole of Europe will crawl to the UK and beg them to keep trading.
The EU is the main factor for stability in Europe.
HSBC just cut the predicted share price of Norwegian by 50 %.

You can't show the finger to the rest of Europe and think everything will be the same. It will not.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 15:37
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Firstly, nothing is going to change for some considerable time, between 2 and 5 years.
Actually, exactly 2 years from invoking invoking article 50 of the treaty of lisbon. Yes, that timeframe can be extendet if both sides agree on that, however, dont expect the EU to show any inclination to that.
The EU has already reminded the UK today that they cannot sit back and relax until UK-wrecker Dave Cameron has been replaced in October. The EU will fast track this as much as they can now that the die is cast.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 15:39
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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It took 10 years to organise EASA and it's still not complete, BREXIT will have no marked impact on us for at least 5 years..
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 15:46
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Avenger, as long as the UK follows EASA rules, you are probably right. But as far as traffic rights are concerned they, and EU airlines such as FR, are up sh*t creek without a canoe.

At best they will get a EU-Swiss model. Unlimited 1st to 5ths, but no 7ths to 9ths. In other words, every FR flight UK - EU is going to have to originate in Ireland and vv.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 16:11
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tu.114
The UK is not in the strongest position when it comes to those negotiations unfortunately. The remaining EU countries have less to lose by denying the UK an open skies agreement (and many other things) than the UK has by doing the same. Also, the EU is likely to take a tough stance on the UK "pour encourager les autres": there are separationists in other countries, albeit not on such a large scale as in the UK.

The decision has been made yesterday and as good democrats the Europeans have to accept it. Whatever may happen, I wish the UK all the best and, yes, good luck as well on their new solitary way.
I would think that the UK, should it want to, could be extremely awkward. How about telling EUROCONTROL route charges office that the route charges for airlines from EU countries that do not have a bilateral agreement with UK will be (name a figure) 20 times higher for transit through UK FIR/UIR. That would make transatlantic operations from the EU extremely expensive for those countries that wanted to be difficult.
This is not really the way to go but don't think that if particular countries are going to be awkward UK just has to sit on its hands and take it.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 16:32
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Ian W,
in that case, what would keep the EU from responding in kind? As I wrote in a previous post, for continental EU airlines, the other option would be to route around GB (or, should the centrifugal tendencies pick up in pace, around England only). For UK airlines, the option would be either to pay the likewise massively increased fees on much longer routes across the remaining EU or to select routes around Norway and Finland in the north or around Portugal, Spain and Italy in the south.

Now, would that have a bigger impact on European or on British aviation?
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