EgyptAir 804 disappears from radar Paris-Cairo
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It *is* interesting that all these military air-surveillance radars and satellite-born radars and optical systems never have anything to say about planes that go down, at least in time to help S&R.
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Did we ever establish how the Russian Metrojet device was detonated, is it possible we have the same situation here,?
To "call it terrorism" there will first have to be certain evidence when the CVR and FDR are recovered. I have faith that those will be found and recovered. There's a small enough datum, and the location is not too far from where suitably equipped vessels can begin an underwater search for those "pings" that were so hard to find for MH370.
We can't yet know how many nations' submarines may be either in the area or on their way to assist in the acoustic search for the pings from those recorders ... but I suspect numerous nations have already offered that assistance.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...g-live-8003059
Last point, the Mirror seems to have published a belated PIREP for the area near this lost contact:
A British pilot who he flew through the same area as the missing plane yesterday said “the weather was perfect”.
Alan Carter told the BBC: “I was captain of my Boeing 747 from Milan to Jeddah, flying on the same rout - we were flying at 39,000 ft, EgyptAir at 37,000 ft. “All air traffic communication systems were operating normally. It was a quiet time - I spoke to Athens radar and remarked how quiet it was, and was told there were only five aircraft in the airspace. Communications with Cairo radar were all normal too.”
Alan Carter told the BBC: “I was captain of my Boeing 747 from Milan to Jeddah, flying on the same rout - we were flying at 39,000 ft, EgyptAir at 37,000 ft. “All air traffic communication systems were operating normally. It was a quiet time - I spoke to Athens radar and remarked how quiet it was, and was told there were only five aircraft in the airspace. Communications with Cairo radar were all normal too.”
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 19th May 2016 at 14:54.
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When you say 'another A320 down with the same pattern', you're absolutely correct. No distress calls and a sudden end.
MetroJet - was blown up
GermanWings - was deliberately crashed
AirAsia - a complex incident but reailting in a LOCi.
Three very different accidents. None which would suggest to me there's a hidden flaw.
MetroJet - was blown up
GermanWings - was deliberately crashed
AirAsia - a complex incident but reailting in a LOCi.
Three very different accidents. None which would suggest to me there's a hidden flaw.
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It averages 14 million hours per accident and there are more than 3000 in service so whatever is the cause the chance that there is a conspirancy to hide a significant design flaw is as close to zero as to be indistinguishable.
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0224: entry into Athinai FIR
0248: handoff to next Athinai sector and clearance for exit point. The pilot was cheerful and thanked ATC in Greek.
0327: ACC tries to contact the plane for handoff information to Cairo ACC. Plane non-responsive, call is repeated on emergency freq.
0329: Plane crosses the FIR exit point
032940: Plane trace lost, approx 7nm SSE of KUMBI, within Cairo FIR. Military radar raised, negative return.
0345: SAR activated, Cairo notified.
0248: handoff to next Athinai sector and clearance for exit point. The pilot was cheerful and thanked ATC in Greek.
0327: ACC tries to contact the plane for handoff information to Cairo ACC. Plane non-responsive, call is repeated on emergency freq.
0329: Plane crosses the FIR exit point
032940: Plane trace lost, approx 7nm SSE of KUMBI, within Cairo FIR. Military radar raised, negative return.
0345: SAR activated, Cairo notified.
Coincident with what the French press has published (French local time here):
<li class="SL_C_42861773_4">23 h 09 : le vol MS804 quitte le terminal aéroportuaire Paris-Charles-de-Gaulle et décolle dix minutes plus tard. Il est prévu qu'il atterrisse au Caire à 3 h 15.<li class="SL_C_42861773_5 Edit Creator42861773">Vers 1 h 50 : le pilote de l'avion est en contact avec un contrôleur aérien grec, alors que l'appareil se trouve au-dessus de l'île de Kéa. Le pilote n'indique alors aucun problème, rapporte l'aviation civile grecque.
<li class="SL_C_42861773_10 Edit Creator42861773">2 h 26 : l'avion s'apprête à sortir de l'espace aérien grec en volant à 37 000 pieds. Le contrôleur grec tente de contacter le pilote, comme l’exige la réglementation, pour lui signaler qu'il s'apprête à rentrer dans l'espace aérien égyptien, sans succès. <li class="SL_C_42861773_17_31637068 Edit Creator42861773">2 h 29 : l'appareil est entré dans l'espace aérien égyptien. Le pilote ne répond pas aux communications du contrôleur.<li class="SL_C_42861773_45_83144587 Edit Creator42861773">2 h 37 : l'appareil effectue deux virages brutaux (à 90° sur la gauche puis de 360° sur la droite) et chute de 22 000 pieds selon le ministre de la défense grec.<li class="SL_C_42861773_73_44826289 Edit Creator42861773">2 h 39 : les contacts radar avec l'appareil sont perdus.
In any case, here is my doubt: what happened in that 10 minute silence between the last contact attempt by Greek controllers and the plane beginning to turn and subsequenly fall?
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Sky News website reports "A Greek frigate searching for an EgyptAir jet which disappeared between Paris and Cairo has discovered two large floating objects in the Mediterranean.Greek defence officials told Reuters pieces of white and red plastic and two life jackets were spotted close to an area where a transponder signal was emitted earlier."
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It *is* interesting that all these military air-surveillance radars and satellite-born radars and optical systems never have anything to say about planes that go down, at least in time to help S&R. AF-447 and MH-370 were a real disappointment in that regard.
No, but less than a year ago about a dozen Mexican tourists taking their lunch by the roadside in the Western Desert were killed by Egyptian security forces, mistaking them for terrrists. Oops, sorry...
More foreigners have been mistakenly killed or injured in Egypt in the past ten years by Egyptian security imposed on them for "protection" than by terrorists. Sadly I'm talking from firsthand experience.
More foreigners have been mistakenly killed or injured in Egypt in the past ten years by Egyptian security imposed on them for "protection" than by terrorists. Sadly I'm talking from firsthand experience.
Who is in command of the search?
Who (what agency or military) has taken command and control of the search?
Sounds as if there are a lot of vessels steaming those waters...who coordinates?
Sounds as if there are a lot of vessels steaming those waters...who coordinates?
If we assume skymarshals are a potential threat then we must surely accept that pilots and cabin crew represent an equal risk? Actually a greater one in the ratio of 6:3.
It's rather amusing to think that some observers seem to think that it is only the presence of firearms that present a threat.
Not so?
It's rather amusing to think that some observers seem to think that it is only the presence of firearms that present a threat.
Not so?
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None of us will have any semblance of a clue until the flight data recorders are dug up. Anything else is speculative at best, but we all know it's mostly drivel.
With regards to having every 'right' to a professional discussion, you do realise this is the internet right?
With regards to having every 'right' to a professional discussion, you do realise this is the internet right?
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Wageslave: Not amusing at all really - the obvious point is that we cannot any longer suppose that all flight crew, cabin crew and passengers had self preservation as a given. This kind of discussion would have been unbelievable 30 years ago. Now we have these selfish zealots poisoning everything we took as sacrosanct.
No matter what the actual cause of this particular accident , we all now suspect everyone else.
No matter what the actual cause of this particular accident , we all now suspect everyone else.
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Does the Airbus autopilot perform a pre-programmed emergency descent with loss of cabin pressure? The 90 degree turn followed by level off at 10000 ft (if true) is similar to what I have seen with a different type aircraft.
