john frohnsdorff elected BALPA General Secretary
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Max Sector - what's your point ?
Balpa intended to rubberstamp the re-election of the GS.
JF objected and stood as a candidate.
All relevant info was provided by BALPA / CD's website and JF.
Those who cared about democracy read the info and voted.
Those who didn't care didn't vote.
JF / democracy won.
In what way do you consider this to be a BA conspiracy?
Regards , leander.
Balpa intended to rubberstamp the re-election of the GS.
JF objected and stood as a candidate.
All relevant info was provided by BALPA / CD's website and JF.
Those who cared about democracy read the info and voted.
Those who didn't care didn't vote.
JF / democracy won.
In what way do you consider this to be a BA conspiracy?
Regards , leander.
Controversial, moi?
To reiterate John stood with the express purpose of clearing the decks for other candidates to feel free to apply for the position of GS. John is not intending to remain as GS.
I believe he is well aware of concerns that this whole business would be seen as a BA takeover and is as keen as the rest of us to see a new GS who will allay the fears of those in BALPA from outside BA. I am sure he will wish, as I believe most of us will, to see a strong and effective replacement able to unify the entire membership and be seen to be giving good value for our hard earned subscriptions.
It is worth noting that a considerable number of non BA members must also have voted for JF. As BA membership is in an overall minority now and we could not force change without help from non-BA members.
Ultimately BALPA will be the better for the change.
A little like the chief executive losing the confidence of the shareholders CD had lost the confidence of a goodly proportion of the membership. Not least because of the appalling stewardship of the finances.
I believe he is well aware of concerns that this whole business would be seen as a BA takeover and is as keen as the rest of us to see a new GS who will allay the fears of those in BALPA from outside BA. I am sure he will wish, as I believe most of us will, to see a strong and effective replacement able to unify the entire membership and be seen to be giving good value for our hard earned subscriptions.
It is worth noting that a considerable number of non BA members must also have voted for JF. As BA membership is in an overall minority now and we could not force change without help from non-BA members.
Ultimately BALPA will be the better for the change.
A little like the chief executive losing the confidence of the shareholders CD had lost the confidence of a goodly proportion of the membership. Not least because of the appalling stewardship of the finances.
Last edited by M.Mouse; 20th Jun 2002 at 11:48.
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Didn't vote but wish John good luck. My father who was a long haul skipper for 20 years until retiring recently has constantly questioned why I am still in BALPA. He was involved as a REP for one of BA's acquisitions and felt let down frequently by some of the hierachy at New Road to the point that he eventually resigned and left BALPA for good.
I'm hoping the Union is going to be returned to the pilots whose Union it is, not for confrontation but to protect the terms and conditions that have over the years, been whittled away.
I'm hoping the Union is going to be returned to the pilots whose Union it is, not for confrontation but to protect the terms and conditions that have over the years, been whittled away.
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Hound,
You don't need to look so far. Grab some help from your cousin's across the Irish Sea. They have recent "battle" experience.
You've got to turn your organisation from a club into a union first. Then you might be taken seriously by your management.
No matter how bright your leadership, the rank and file need to become a part of the process.
Cheers,
You don't need to look so far. Grab some help from your cousin's across the Irish Sea. They have recent "battle" experience.
You've got to turn your organisation from a club into a union first. Then you might be taken seriously by your management.
No matter how bright your leadership, the rank and file need to become a part of the process.
Cheers,
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Dallas Dude,
There is much more to it than that ! Remember that in the US (assuming that is where you are from) you have legally enforcible agreements. In this country agreements aren't worth more than a handshake at the best of times. Many company's simply make agreements and then, when it doesn't suit the situation anymore, walk away and break them. The management of one company, with a 3 letter name starting with b and ending with i, in particular, are past and present masters of the art. Also, and correct me if I am wrong, at the likes of United you have to be a member of a union. The numbers give the pilots power that we can only dream of. Whilst I agree that we need to become a union rather than a flying club, there are real legal issues which have to be addressed to make this possible.
Have a good day
There is much more to it than that ! Remember that in the US (assuming that is where you are from) you have legally enforcible agreements. In this country agreements aren't worth more than a handshake at the best of times. Many company's simply make agreements and then, when it doesn't suit the situation anymore, walk away and break them. The management of one company, with a 3 letter name starting with b and ending with i, in particular, are past and present masters of the art. Also, and correct me if I am wrong, at the likes of United you have to be a member of a union. The numbers give the pilots power that we can only dream of. Whilst I agree that we need to become a union rather than a flying club, there are real legal issues which have to be addressed to make this possible.
Have a good day
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British Minimums?
Fuzzy112. I assume you are talking about the Bishops string of companies?
It amazes me the way your workforce just rolls over and takes it.
If history tells us anything it is that management in the company will always shaft the employees, yet the union is weak, what 65% membership?
Time you guys did an Aer Lingus.
It amazes me the way your workforce just rolls over and takes it.
If history tells us anything it is that management in the company will always shaft the employees, yet the union is weak, what 65% membership?
Time you guys did an Aer Lingus.
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And another thing...
JF & Co: Please please please can you arrange NOT to take the new incumbent on, on a 10 year contract this time, just in case he (or she) makes the same pig's ear of the whole thing like the last contestant???
JF & Co: Please please please can you arrange NOT to take the new incumbent on, on a 10 year contract this time, just in case he (or she) makes the same pig's ear of the whole thing like the last contestant???
Last edited by barcode; 21st Jun 2002 at 09:53.
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Just got back- bad news with the football, but we were outplayed. But good news- congratulations John. I would prefer it this way round! We got the important result. This is not a BA takeover- John has no intention of keeping the position. The important thing was to unseat the wrong person who seemed to be in the job for life. Now we can set about improving the lot of ALL British professional pilots in the UK!
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Been busy , so first time to reply. Lots of interesting comments. Before I start, it is not the persons that matter in this, it is the functions and how to achieve them.
Firstly, comments about the peerage and good life at BALPA HQ.
If only ! I can’t speak for company reps etc, but I expect it is the same for them. You do get the odd day off to do stuff for BALPA, but it does not come for free. Loss of FHR, allowances etc, means a net financial loss for sure. Because so few want to do the work, the few that do have more to do than time to do it, hence doing it on days off etc. Not very popular with the “domestic authorities” ! That is probably the biggest reason why things don’t happen or don’t happen sooner. So the answer is the in the phrase ”don’t think of what BALPA can do for you, but what you can do for BALPA” and things will happen quicker!
As to finances, one was under the impression that a finance committee was the oversight for that, the NEC being the “big cheeses” who watch over them., but obviously some think otherwise.
As to degradation of terms of employment etc. Apart from a few lawyers and that select bunch who inhabit the FTSE 100 directors circle, just about everyone has had a relative decline in things, but an absolute increase as well. Over the last 10 years, most have gotten better conditions for most things. Anyway, the negotiation and so forth is as I mentioned, done by your elected reps, not the staff, who merely support and advise. That has to be advice in a UK legal context. After all, how many of us here in the UK think that the US FTL’s are safe (8 hours rest, 16 hours duty I believe) why have the US unions not managed to get a UK type FTL? Probably because it is not possible legally etc, perhaps someone can answer.
On to flagging out, I can only say, how many of you pay over the odds for something you could get elsewhere for more ? Anyone here refusing to buy a personal import car because it is 25% cheaper ? It is not nice, but it is the real world. And if it is legal to do so, business owners will do it in shareholders interests. We as employees don’t count, but shareholders do. We sit and whinge about it and then as group go and vote for the party that believes it should be that way ! An interesting thought.
As to the comment about JAA FTL’s . BALPA is at the front in this issue and it is MG who is banging the table for us, as he has done for years, but unless you happen to have put your own time into coming forward and doing the pretty thankless task, you would not know about it. If any of the commenters here would like to devote some of their OWN time to helping , I am sure he would be more than grateful ! By the way the same goes for the technical bit at BALPA too, any warm bodies with an interest and knowledge and mainly enthusiasm, welcome !
As to negotiating what, for who and when. My own understanding is that the Gen Sec, whoever they are, are merely professional supporters and advisors (there are others in the team too) to the Company Councils etc, who are elected by us. The role of the BALPA staff, headed by the Gen Sec, who is responsible to the NEC (not vice versa!) is to provide us pilots with professional advice so we don’t screw up and land the membership with a huge legal bill from time to time, as would certainly be the case if some of the more “off the wall” ideas were followed! A word of warning about this, you cannot transfer what happens in other countries directly to the UK, because legislation is not the same. Thus, aspects of scope clauses are enforceable in the US but certainly not in the UK. There are others too, hence you need to be careful.
What do you want in the Gen Sec. Well firstly define the job and then you can find someone to fill it. Probably need a person who knows their strengths and weaknesses and knows how to overcome them. Administration is important, but knowing “the man who can do it” whilst at least understanding what needs to be done, is probably good enough. I say this because I feel that the most important characteristic is that they be someone who can mix and represent BALPA at the highest levels, whilst keeping them organisation running along the lines that the various elements of the NEC have instructed him/her to do. You need someone for example, who can walk into a room full of airline chiefs of varied backgrounds and speak as an equal in a language they understand, whilst at the same time understanding what your leaders (the NEC) want you to achieve. They need to be someone who will give the best advice, even if you don’t like it when the brown stuff is about to hit the fan, so you don’t end up standing there with something worse than mud on your face! That is, knows when we need to stop before we make prats of ourselves! You need someone who, when the part timers are not around (the whole of the pilot input to BALPA I hasten to add!) can fire fight and keep the organisation positioned as well as it can.
How you select and appoint that person will be an issue. How do you job interview someone with a potential 8000 interviewers ! Given it is really a staff position, one wonders if an election by the membership, based on a manifesto and some political lobbying is really the best way to go. I did not see BA shareholders get a vote on Skippy ! A decent in depth selection process would be a better bet.
There is democracy though, as the NEC is elected and more frequently than any Gen Sec and they are a suitably sized body with access to information and expertise to enable a rational and robust decision and appointment process. I am amazed that the new Gen Secis under the impression that he will be handling the selection of his successor. This is unusual to say the least in any organisation and seems at odds with the concept that the elected representatives, the NEC, as the board of directors so to speak, give employment to the Gen Sec and thus direct the operation of the Gen Sec, not vice versa. The concept of junior staff being the ones who select candidates within the organisation for selection and election by the BALPA members as their boss seems a bit odd to me. One hopes that there is no concept of a “by grace and favour” of the previous incumbent here. By the way it is only a 5 year job, so not for life for anyonw Perhaps therein lies some of the answer as to the fate of the last one, a misunderstanding of what the job was by a lot of people and who really calls the shots. I suppose the comparison is, that we don’t vote on who the Head of the civil Service is going to be, the Government we elect just appoint them. Limited term contract give an opportunity to say ”au revoir” if things go wrong.
A bit long, but may get a few reasonable comments and get people thinking logically rather than emotionally !
Martin
P.S A psychologist would have field day with all of those aliases , I mean “BOAC” does leave much to the imagination as to their leanings, or does it. I suppose Hugejet could be an AN124 driver though!!!
Firstly, comments about the peerage and good life at BALPA HQ.
If only ! I can’t speak for company reps etc, but I expect it is the same for them. You do get the odd day off to do stuff for BALPA, but it does not come for free. Loss of FHR, allowances etc, means a net financial loss for sure. Because so few want to do the work, the few that do have more to do than time to do it, hence doing it on days off etc. Not very popular with the “domestic authorities” ! That is probably the biggest reason why things don’t happen or don’t happen sooner. So the answer is the in the phrase ”don’t think of what BALPA can do for you, but what you can do for BALPA” and things will happen quicker!
As to finances, one was under the impression that a finance committee was the oversight for that, the NEC being the “big cheeses” who watch over them., but obviously some think otherwise.
As to degradation of terms of employment etc. Apart from a few lawyers and that select bunch who inhabit the FTSE 100 directors circle, just about everyone has had a relative decline in things, but an absolute increase as well. Over the last 10 years, most have gotten better conditions for most things. Anyway, the negotiation and so forth is as I mentioned, done by your elected reps, not the staff, who merely support and advise. That has to be advice in a UK legal context. After all, how many of us here in the UK think that the US FTL’s are safe (8 hours rest, 16 hours duty I believe) why have the US unions not managed to get a UK type FTL? Probably because it is not possible legally etc, perhaps someone can answer.
On to flagging out, I can only say, how many of you pay over the odds for something you could get elsewhere for more ? Anyone here refusing to buy a personal import car because it is 25% cheaper ? It is not nice, but it is the real world. And if it is legal to do so, business owners will do it in shareholders interests. We as employees don’t count, but shareholders do. We sit and whinge about it and then as group go and vote for the party that believes it should be that way ! An interesting thought.
As to the comment about JAA FTL’s . BALPA is at the front in this issue and it is MG who is banging the table for us, as he has done for years, but unless you happen to have put your own time into coming forward and doing the pretty thankless task, you would not know about it. If any of the commenters here would like to devote some of their OWN time to helping , I am sure he would be more than grateful ! By the way the same goes for the technical bit at BALPA too, any warm bodies with an interest and knowledge and mainly enthusiasm, welcome !
As to negotiating what, for who and when. My own understanding is that the Gen Sec, whoever they are, are merely professional supporters and advisors (there are others in the team too) to the Company Councils etc, who are elected by us. The role of the BALPA staff, headed by the Gen Sec, who is responsible to the NEC (not vice versa!) is to provide us pilots with professional advice so we don’t screw up and land the membership with a huge legal bill from time to time, as would certainly be the case if some of the more “off the wall” ideas were followed! A word of warning about this, you cannot transfer what happens in other countries directly to the UK, because legislation is not the same. Thus, aspects of scope clauses are enforceable in the US but certainly not in the UK. There are others too, hence you need to be careful.
What do you want in the Gen Sec. Well firstly define the job and then you can find someone to fill it. Probably need a person who knows their strengths and weaknesses and knows how to overcome them. Administration is important, but knowing “the man who can do it” whilst at least understanding what needs to be done, is probably good enough. I say this because I feel that the most important characteristic is that they be someone who can mix and represent BALPA at the highest levels, whilst keeping them organisation running along the lines that the various elements of the NEC have instructed him/her to do. You need someone for example, who can walk into a room full of airline chiefs of varied backgrounds and speak as an equal in a language they understand, whilst at the same time understanding what your leaders (the NEC) want you to achieve. They need to be someone who will give the best advice, even if you don’t like it when the brown stuff is about to hit the fan, so you don’t end up standing there with something worse than mud on your face! That is, knows when we need to stop before we make prats of ourselves! You need someone who, when the part timers are not around (the whole of the pilot input to BALPA I hasten to add!) can fire fight and keep the organisation positioned as well as it can.
How you select and appoint that person will be an issue. How do you job interview someone with a potential 8000 interviewers ! Given it is really a staff position, one wonders if an election by the membership, based on a manifesto and some political lobbying is really the best way to go. I did not see BA shareholders get a vote on Skippy ! A decent in depth selection process would be a better bet.
There is democracy though, as the NEC is elected and more frequently than any Gen Sec and they are a suitably sized body with access to information and expertise to enable a rational and robust decision and appointment process. I am amazed that the new Gen Secis under the impression that he will be handling the selection of his successor. This is unusual to say the least in any organisation and seems at odds with the concept that the elected representatives, the NEC, as the board of directors so to speak, give employment to the Gen Sec and thus direct the operation of the Gen Sec, not vice versa. The concept of junior staff being the ones who select candidates within the organisation for selection and election by the BALPA members as their boss seems a bit odd to me. One hopes that there is no concept of a “by grace and favour” of the previous incumbent here. By the way it is only a 5 year job, so not for life for anyonw Perhaps therein lies some of the answer as to the fate of the last one, a misunderstanding of what the job was by a lot of people and who really calls the shots. I suppose the comparison is, that we don’t vote on who the Head of the civil Service is going to be, the Government we elect just appoint them. Limited term contract give an opportunity to say ”au revoir” if things go wrong.
A bit long, but may get a few reasonable comments and get people thinking logically rather than emotionally !
Martin
P.S A psychologist would have field day with all of those aliases , I mean “BOAC” does leave much to the imagination as to their leanings, or does it. I suppose Hugejet could be an AN124 driver though!!!
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Dear All,
Thanks for all the support on the forum.
I will be communicating with you via log, Balpa mail and email from now on. You will hopefully appreciate my work load has gone up too much to constantly monitor the PPruNe forum but please contact me via New Road if you have any questions.
The search for a new GS has begun and we have made a good start.
Best Wishes,
John.
Thanks for all the support on the forum.
I will be communicating with you via log, Balpa mail and email from now on. You will hopefully appreciate my work load has gone up too much to constantly monitor the PPruNe forum but please contact me via New Road if you have any questions.
The search for a new GS has begun and we have made a good start.
Best Wishes,
John.
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John,
whilst on this subject , could you please ensure that your successor, or the staff at New Road REALLY review BALPAs **** poor performance record on communication methods.
The BALPA website is of NO USE to me as a regular member.
It does not tell me anything I dont already know. There are SO MANY functions that the net and email could used for.
As has been said many times, The Log is more of an old boys mag, than a sharp, current, punchy union publication.
The whole Union/Membeship communications system need a complete overhaul.
whilst on this subject , could you please ensure that your successor, or the staff at New Road REALLY review BALPAs **** poor performance record on communication methods.
The BALPA website is of NO USE to me as a regular member.
It does not tell me anything I dont already know. There are SO MANY functions that the net and email could used for.
As has been said many times, The Log is more of an old boys mag, than a sharp, current, punchy union publication.
The whole Union/Membeship communications system need a complete overhaul.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Martin A:
IMO, an excellent post and worth reading to the end - well, almost
<A psychologist would have a field day with all of those aliases. I mean “BOAC” does leave much to the imagination as to their leanings, or does it?>
In my defence, MA, I have to refer your comment on the psychology to the good Captain PPrune who thought the name a jolly good 'wheeze' when he chose it to help me set up the BA forum here.
(PS Not a very BIG 'alias' when you look at my profile)
BKB - you may be interested to know that the BA CC have just (finally) set-up an excellent and long overdue internet forum which runs inside the 'screen' of the BALPA website security. You may wish to press your CC for them to have a chat with the BA guys about it?
IMO, an excellent post and worth reading to the end - well, almost
<A psychologist would have a field day with all of those aliases. I mean “BOAC” does leave much to the imagination as to their leanings, or does it?>
In my defence, MA, I have to refer your comment on the psychology to the good Captain PPrune who thought the name a jolly good 'wheeze' when he chose it to help me set up the BA forum here.
(PS Not a very BIG 'alias' when you look at my profile)
BKB - you may be interested to know that the BA CC have just (finally) set-up an excellent and long overdue internet forum which runs inside the 'screen' of the BALPA website security. You may wish to press your CC for them to have a chat with the BA guys about it?
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Dear John,
Congratulations now the union is back in the hands of the members. There are a number of issues in our industry which have been left untouched for years. The most significant I feel is the slowly downward spiraling pay, every year payrises (if they occur) don't meet inflation. I would guess over the past 10 years this accounts to a 20% cut, particualy for those in smaller companies. Please inform the new GS when found that there is alot to be done and not just for those at the top end of the pile. All the effort spent on negotiating BA 777 crewrest facilities is great for those at the top I'm sure, but when reading log those at the bottom feel somewhat disenfranchised! Espesially when our (the bottom of the pile) rest facilities are a portacabin with no heating.
I believe a five year post for the new GS is fine but a ballot should be called after every five year period, that's democratic. A select few behind stuffy closed doors should not be able to re-appoint the GS.
just a few thoughts.
Congratulations now the union is back in the hands of the members. There are a number of issues in our industry which have been left untouched for years. The most significant I feel is the slowly downward spiraling pay, every year payrises (if they occur) don't meet inflation. I would guess over the past 10 years this accounts to a 20% cut, particualy for those in smaller companies. Please inform the new GS when found that there is alot to be done and not just for those at the top end of the pile. All the effort spent on negotiating BA 777 crewrest facilities is great for those at the top I'm sure, but when reading log those at the bottom feel somewhat disenfranchised! Espesially when our (the bottom of the pile) rest facilities are a portacabin with no heating.
I believe a five year post for the new GS is fine but a ballot should be called after every five year period, that's democratic. A select few behind stuffy closed doors should not be able to re-appoint the GS.
just a few thoughts.
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Martin, a very nice and eloquent post. Please let me state a few of the reasons that I have allowed PPRuNe to be used in the run up to the election for the GS.
I have been a BALPA member since I started my flying career and was even on the Airworthyness Study Group and so have some insight as to what BALPA does behind the scenes. As you have pointed out, there are many pilots who have an opinion on everything without having the 'big picture'. As can be seen by many of the responses in this thread, there are many who assume that 'BLALPA' do all the work on our behalf. Thankfully, posts like yours mamange to go some way to explaining what actually happens behind the scenes.
Unfortunately, as has been proved by this exercise, is that it doesn't matter how much good you think you are doing if the perception of the majority is different. Many people, especially in BALPA are very quick to criticise PPRuNe as a 'pilots chat room' or whatever. Yes, there are many people who fail to engage brain before making a post and there are plenty of people who show themselves up by trying to sound authoritative when in fact their posts show them up to be quite the opposite. It doesn't matter though. If BALPA's communications to its members and anyone else is below par and the majority believe that the GS or whoever in BALPA isn't doing their job to the best of their ability with the members best interests, then, even if they are wrong it doesn't matter becuase there is obviously a problem that needs addressing. It is no good preaching that everything is actually running normally and so many things are going on in the background if the majority of the members and everyone else 'thinks' or 'believes' it not to be so.
There are many in management who use PPRuNe as a tool to gague what current perceptions are about their performance. These managers are clever enough to realise that if there is any perception that their performance is poor, even if it isn't, there is a problem because everyone else thinks it is. When asked about my involvement with PPRuNe, especially when asked if my managers ever give me any grief about it I tell them that most are able to realise that I am only the messenger but they should treat PPRuNe like a hidden bug in the crew room. They may not know who is saying the things about them that they don't like but at least they know what is being said. They, the managers or whoever, now have the opportunity to set the record straigh or communicate their policies in a clearer fashion in order to make sure that the perceptions of the beraters are changed. Unfortunately not too many in positions of responsibility are able to get this concept into their heads.
In the case of BALPA, I have believed for years that they have had a terrible communication problem with not only their members but also their detractors. From the way their website is run (and the amount of time it took them to adopt the internet) through their publications and other communications they fail to get the important messages across. Now, the classic case has been this election process for the new GS. I will say it again, 'pooh pooh' PPRuNe at your own risk. It may be full of trivia and whingeing a lot of the time but those who have a better grasp of the power of communication and information control know that they can use it as a gague. Not the total solution but certainly one of the tools that will help people in the business to get a better picture of what is going on.
The information doesn't have to be true as long as the perception that it is true prevails. Too many people in positions of power have used this fact to their benefit and all we try to do here on PPRuNe is give everyone the opportunity to put the facts in front of everyone and the objective is to make sure that our perceptions are based on the true facts.
I have been a BALPA member since I started my flying career and was even on the Airworthyness Study Group and so have some insight as to what BALPA does behind the scenes. As you have pointed out, there are many pilots who have an opinion on everything without having the 'big picture'. As can be seen by many of the responses in this thread, there are many who assume that 'BLALPA' do all the work on our behalf. Thankfully, posts like yours mamange to go some way to explaining what actually happens behind the scenes.
Unfortunately, as has been proved by this exercise, is that it doesn't matter how much good you think you are doing if the perception of the majority is different. Many people, especially in BALPA are very quick to criticise PPRuNe as a 'pilots chat room' or whatever. Yes, there are many people who fail to engage brain before making a post and there are plenty of people who show themselves up by trying to sound authoritative when in fact their posts show them up to be quite the opposite. It doesn't matter though. If BALPA's communications to its members and anyone else is below par and the majority believe that the GS or whoever in BALPA isn't doing their job to the best of their ability with the members best interests, then, even if they are wrong it doesn't matter becuase there is obviously a problem that needs addressing. It is no good preaching that everything is actually running normally and so many things are going on in the background if the majority of the members and everyone else 'thinks' or 'believes' it not to be so.
There are many in management who use PPRuNe as a tool to gague what current perceptions are about their performance. These managers are clever enough to realise that if there is any perception that their performance is poor, even if it isn't, there is a problem because everyone else thinks it is. When asked about my involvement with PPRuNe, especially when asked if my managers ever give me any grief about it I tell them that most are able to realise that I am only the messenger but they should treat PPRuNe like a hidden bug in the crew room. They may not know who is saying the things about them that they don't like but at least they know what is being said. They, the managers or whoever, now have the opportunity to set the record straigh or communicate their policies in a clearer fashion in order to make sure that the perceptions of the beraters are changed. Unfortunately not too many in positions of responsibility are able to get this concept into their heads.
In the case of BALPA, I have believed for years that they have had a terrible communication problem with not only their members but also their detractors. From the way their website is run (and the amount of time it took them to adopt the internet) through their publications and other communications they fail to get the important messages across. Now, the classic case has been this election process for the new GS. I will say it again, 'pooh pooh' PPRuNe at your own risk. It may be full of trivia and whingeing a lot of the time but those who have a better grasp of the power of communication and information control know that they can use it as a gague. Not the total solution but certainly one of the tools that will help people in the business to get a better picture of what is going on.
The information doesn't have to be true as long as the perception that it is true prevails. Too many people in positions of power have used this fact to their benefit and all we try to do here on PPRuNe is give everyone the opportunity to put the facts in front of everyone and the objective is to make sure that our perceptions are based on the true facts.