British Airways to cut workers' pay
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I was not aware of quite how overburdened with managers BA was (in terms of numbers) - but it is no surprise. Still, there will be fewer of them when Stelios has bought you out, closed Waterside, sacked thousands of bean counters, expanded the route network and painted the jets orange!.
Most FO's would get a nice little pay rise, too, if on easyJet conditions.
Most FO's would get a nice little pay rise, too, if on easyJet conditions.
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Surely the best thing that could happen to the rest of British aviation is to let BA go bust - no, it's not unthinkable. For years they've unbalanced the whole industry. Some good could come from all of this if an efficent replacement for BA could restore some equilibrium to a very unstable situation. As for getting any money from the government to prop up up such an indulgence as the present BA structure, well, don't get me started!
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At Gatwick they have been so petty as to stop the free vend on the tea machine and to stop canteen subsidy for the workers.We have yet to see our huge management temple (Jubilee House) shed any of the so called management empires (Peter Principle in action)however they have reduced the temperature by 2 degrees to conserve energy. For us there is a ban on overtime and we have seen our night shift reduced from 13 to 6 and now a proposed 2. with upto 80 more staff to go before the end of October.We do however still have our huge team of project managers fumbling over themselves to try and look busy and creating jobs for themselves that a child at kindergarden could do with a few pots and paints and I hasten to add more charm. Now they want to reduce my pay and take away an allowance they conveniently call holiday pay.I have been led to believe that I am paid for a 30 day month and that this pay is for the 7 months of the year that have 31 days minus 1/2 days for Feb. If this is the case which I suspect it is as it is normal practice in most large companies then they have no right to this money they have also already pocketed the Interest. 
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Well lets temper a few of these reactionary responses with some facts shall we?
Senior flight crew are taking the ****
Well given that BALPA figures show that many BA senior flight crew are lower paid yet more productive than most other European rivals, both state and privately owned, I dont think they are. Unless you aspire to have all UK flight crew working for nothing.
Most FOs would get a nice little pay rise, too, if on easyJet conditions
True, about a 25% rise in my case, plus fewer 5 sector days, more days off and better overtime. That said, I would have grave reservations about working for that smug, squealing, repugnant little man after watching him gloat over job losses in the last few weeks.
Surely the best thing that could happen to the rest of British aviation is to let BA go bust - no, it's not unthinkable. For years they've unbalanced the whole industry...
Oh I do love this sweeping statement backed up by not a shred of evidence. Precisely how have BA unbalanced the whole industry? By operating succesfully to more destinations than anyone against efficient private and inefficient state owned airlines? Who do you propose should take over? Virgin? They're in an even worse position at the moment! EasyJet? No meals on a twelve hour flight could be fiddly. Simply put, there isn't anyone who could take over, all you're wishing for is to see 50000 people out of a job.
Flight Operations 7% of staffing and 18% of costs......
Well what do you expect? Flight crew aren't cheap (though they are cheaper in BA). I think you'd find that the percentage cost of flight crew in the low cost operators are much higher. They have a greater percantage of flight crew in their staff and pay them more than most BA crews. there are lies, damned lies and statistics!!!
2 pilots @ £50 for 1/2 an hour!
I wish! Try two pilots on NOTHING for two hours, then on one ninth of a days overtime for each COMPLETE hour following that.
Even if they could make that, why should they be ashamed? Its an overtime deal that the company agreed to. Nobody held a gun to their heads.
I, like many other BA pilots, are continually amazed by how many of our so-called profesional colleagues seem to take delight in spouting uninformed, unfounded BS about us, our pay and how lazy we are. The VAST majority of BA pilots are not on huge salaries, and other pilots out there do not have a monopoly on runnning into legal duty time restrictions, be they hours flown per year, or days off in 7,14,28 or 90 days. Its the classic British syndrome off knocking anyone down thats percevieved to be doing well.
[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: Hand Solo ]
Senior flight crew are taking the ****
Well given that BALPA figures show that many BA senior flight crew are lower paid yet more productive than most other European rivals, both state and privately owned, I dont think they are. Unless you aspire to have all UK flight crew working for nothing.
Most FOs would get a nice little pay rise, too, if on easyJet conditions
True, about a 25% rise in my case, plus fewer 5 sector days, more days off and better overtime. That said, I would have grave reservations about working for that smug, squealing, repugnant little man after watching him gloat over job losses in the last few weeks.
Surely the best thing that could happen to the rest of British aviation is to let BA go bust - no, it's not unthinkable. For years they've unbalanced the whole industry...
Oh I do love this sweeping statement backed up by not a shred of evidence. Precisely how have BA unbalanced the whole industry? By operating succesfully to more destinations than anyone against efficient private and inefficient state owned airlines? Who do you propose should take over? Virgin? They're in an even worse position at the moment! EasyJet? No meals on a twelve hour flight could be fiddly. Simply put, there isn't anyone who could take over, all you're wishing for is to see 50000 people out of a job.
Flight Operations 7% of staffing and 18% of costs......
Well what do you expect? Flight crew aren't cheap (though they are cheaper in BA). I think you'd find that the percentage cost of flight crew in the low cost operators are much higher. They have a greater percantage of flight crew in their staff and pay them more than most BA crews. there are lies, damned lies and statistics!!!
2 pilots @ £50 for 1/2 an hour!
I wish! Try two pilots on NOTHING for two hours, then on one ninth of a days overtime for each COMPLETE hour following that.
Even if they could make that, why should they be ashamed? Its an overtime deal that the company agreed to. Nobody held a gun to their heads.
I, like many other BA pilots, are continually amazed by how many of our so-called profesional colleagues seem to take delight in spouting uninformed, unfounded BS about us, our pay and how lazy we are. The VAST majority of BA pilots are not on huge salaries, and other pilots out there do not have a monopoly on runnning into legal duty time restrictions, be they hours flown per year, or days off in 7,14,28 or 90 days. Its the classic British syndrome off knocking anyone down thats percevieved to be doing well.
[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: Hand Solo ]
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This figure that is being bandied about of pilots being 7% of staff vs 18% of costs comes, I believe from BA's own figures that were released to us a few days before the September 11th attacks. I'm pretty sure that the BALPA pay proposal had very different figures which pointed towards pilots being underpaid as a percentage of the workforce. Does anyone still have those figures or did you all also bin the pay proposal as soon as the second tower fell?
I personally suspect that, as with most statistics, neither paints a particularly accurate picture and that the true situation is somewhere between the two. What cannot be denied, however, is that we work just as hard, if not harder, than most of our colleagues in the UK and Europe and are not recompensed accordingly.
They can have my Christmas "bonus" if they want it, but I am not willing to sign up to a proposal that affects the lowest paid (new entrant CEPs) hardest of all, does not touch the highest paid and takes a major chunk out of the pension for people who are unlikely to reach the higher salary bands.
I personally suspect that, as with most statistics, neither paints a particularly accurate picture and that the true situation is somewhere between the two. What cannot be denied, however, is that we work just as hard, if not harder, than most of our colleagues in the UK and Europe and are not recompensed accordingly.
They can have my Christmas "bonus" if they want it, but I am not willing to sign up to a proposal that affects the lowest paid (new entrant CEPs) hardest of all, does not touch the highest paid and takes a major chunk out of the pension for people who are unlikely to reach the higher salary bands.
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These proposed pay cuts are typical of the Knee jerk way the managment are responding to the crisis, they are by all reports running around like headless chickens, solving one problem and creating 20.
During these difficult times the managment want all staff to pull together and share the hardship of PAYCUTS everyone should contribute....... Fine whats happening to those pilots on paypoint 24???? NO PAYCUT FOR THEM IN 2002 then!! Anyone care to coment
During these difficult times the managment want all staff to pull together and share the hardship of PAYCUTS everyone should contribute....... Fine whats happening to those pilots on paypoint 24???? NO PAYCUT FOR THEM IN 2002 then!! Anyone care to coment
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Totally agree with Mr Solo. A friend in the Big Smoke told me that their analysts were warning BA 3-4 weeks before the disaster of Sep 11th that the s*** was gonna hit the fan unless they did something about it. BA then started to refuse their calls. Now look what has happened! I remember a couple of years ago a cartoon that depicted BA and Virgin in a 'boat race'. BA boat had 6 cox's and 2 oarsmen. Virgin crew had 1 cox and 7 oarsmen. BA was always losing the race. Big management meeting ensued and they were sure they had the answer.....Another cox needed, sack an oarsman and tell the other one to row harder!!!
Unfortunely I feel that we are going down this route yet again. Scrapping the 'holiday entitlement' and putting a pay freeze is going to drive workforce morale to an all time low. I don't mind accepting this action if you first address the problem of mangement over staffing of this dinosaur of a company. Flight ops is one of the only departments that sticks to budget and will be under budget next year! How many other departments will manage that? I hope BALPA will agree and fight for us. If not they are going to be one member short next year!
Unfortunely I feel that we are going down this route yet again. Scrapping the 'holiday entitlement' and putting a pay freeze is going to drive workforce morale to an all time low. I don't mind accepting this action if you first address the problem of mangement over staffing of this dinosaur of a company. Flight ops is one of the only departments that sticks to budget and will be under budget next year! How many other departments will manage that? I hope BALPA will agree and fight for us. If not they are going to be one member short next year!
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I am shocked by the statistic about pilots being 7% of headcount and 18% of salaries - judging by the salaries of the junior pilots it seems to me that the simple fact is that senior crews are paid far too much and are reliant on terms and conditions negotiated when the airline was state owned and there was no competition. How in heavens name you can complain about the Im dept who are 4% of headcount and 4% of salaries I have no idea. I work in this area and I can assure you that Im has had significant problems retaining skilled staff who for much of the last few years could have left BA (and did)for far higher salaries elsewhere. One of the reasons Im became so reliant on contractor staff was because they simply couldn't recruit anyone with the necessary skills for the salaries they were paying. We ended up in the ludicrous position of paying Contractors huge sums because they didn't appear on headcount figures! To make matters worse we - the already underpaid of Im - are being asked to take pay cuts whilst many flight crew (who we have been assured for years are Managers in the business) are protected.
I am also shocked by the fact that most of you seem willing to throw anybody else out of the organisation in order to feather your own nests. CSD's are people with years and years of experience - they have to manage 400 pax, a dozen staff, work unsocial hours as you do away from their families and are the customer service face of BA more than any of the rest of us. Surely they deserve to earn a decent wage on which a family can be supported? I have to say I have found this attitude by pilots all too common - you see yourselves as the elite and view everyone else as expendable.
As for the Managers - I have read some crap in my time but this takes the biscuit - there is no manager of warm rolls I can assure you! Managers total around 3000 in an organisation of 60000 I make that 1/20 which is small beer and its effect on the wage bill trivial as your own statistics show.
It's time the flight crew (many of whom earn 6 figure salaries and recline in 5 star hotels for much of the year) realised they are at least as much a part of the problem as any other part of the organisation.
This airline is in a mess and we must all shoulder the burden of preserving it.
Desk-pilot
I am also shocked by the fact that most of you seem willing to throw anybody else out of the organisation in order to feather your own nests. CSD's are people with years and years of experience - they have to manage 400 pax, a dozen staff, work unsocial hours as you do away from their families and are the customer service face of BA more than any of the rest of us. Surely they deserve to earn a decent wage on which a family can be supported? I have to say I have found this attitude by pilots all too common - you see yourselves as the elite and view everyone else as expendable.
As for the Managers - I have read some crap in my time but this takes the biscuit - there is no manager of warm rolls I can assure you! Managers total around 3000 in an organisation of 60000 I make that 1/20 which is small beer and its effect on the wage bill trivial as your own statistics show.
It's time the flight crew (many of whom earn 6 figure salaries and recline in 5 star hotels for much of the year) realised they are at least as much a part of the problem as any other part of the organisation.
This airline is in a mess and we must all shoulder the burden of preserving it.
Desk-pilot
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eeper - do you seriously expect BALPA to say that their members are overpaid? 
I think that the only way that one can really work it out is to take the bottom-line pay and bonus levels for a year for everyone and divide them by the number of hours flown. That would give an apples-for-apples comparison.
I think that the only way that one can really work it out is to take the bottom-line pay and bonus levels for a year for everyone and divide them by the number of hours flown. That would give an apples-for-apples comparison.
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Guv,
If you have a quick read of the second paragraph of my post you will see that I believe that neither party is providing the correct figures. BALPA will of course understate the pay of their members, but it is also in BA's interest, in the face of forthcoming wage negotiations, to overstate flight crew pay. So (at the risk of repeating myself) the true situation is somewhere between the two.
I agree that some sort of impartial formula is required, but the pay proposal did perform some of these calculations using both BALPA's own figures and BA's. Unsurprisingly BA's figures all painted a somewhat more rosy picture, but they all pointed in the same direction ie that we work just as hard, if not harder, than most of our colleagues in the UK and Europe and are not recompensed accordingly.
Desk-pilot - Thank you for joining the debate (and that is meant sincerely
). I think it is important that we see the arguments from the other side, especially how we are perceived by other members of the airline. What you must understand is that a lot of the anger about the current proposal comes from the fact that it does not affect our colleagues equally. A junior pilot is losing out (percentage wise and possibly in real terms) on a much larger increase than the senior guys. If it was suggested that the guys and gals in your department who had been there longest were not to take a pay cut at all and that the hardest hit were to be the youngest / most junior chaps then you could expect a bit of a stink, wouldn't you? You would also expect that when the company recovered that your salaries moved back up towards their previous levels.
Our pilots take the survival and health of the company as seriously as anyone else in the company, if not more seriously. We all tend to stay with the company for the long term and our skills are not as easily transferrable as other staff. No-one on the flight deck has joined BA for "something to do for a few years after college" and how many non flying staff have stayed with the company for 30 years plus?
If you have a quick read of the second paragraph of my post you will see that I believe that neither party is providing the correct figures. BALPA will of course understate the pay of their members, but it is also in BA's interest, in the face of forthcoming wage negotiations, to overstate flight crew pay. So (at the risk of repeating myself) the true situation is somewhere between the two.
I agree that some sort of impartial formula is required, but the pay proposal did perform some of these calculations using both BALPA's own figures and BA's. Unsurprisingly BA's figures all painted a somewhat more rosy picture, but they all pointed in the same direction ie that we work just as hard, if not harder, than most of our colleagues in the UK and Europe and are not recompensed accordingly.
Desk-pilot - Thank you for joining the debate (and that is meant sincerely
). I think it is important that we see the arguments from the other side, especially how we are perceived by other members of the airline. What you must understand is that a lot of the anger about the current proposal comes from the fact that it does not affect our colleagues equally. A junior pilot is losing out (percentage wise and possibly in real terms) on a much larger increase than the senior guys. If it was suggested that the guys and gals in your department who had been there longest were not to take a pay cut at all and that the hardest hit were to be the youngest / most junior chaps then you could expect a bit of a stink, wouldn't you? You would also expect that when the company recovered that your salaries moved back up towards their previous levels.Our pilots take the survival and health of the company as seriously as anyone else in the company, if not more seriously. We all tend to stay with the company for the long term and our skills are not as easily transferrable as other staff. No-one on the flight deck has joined BA for "something to do for a few years after college" and how many non flying staff have stayed with the company for 30 years plus?
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i am an engineer and have been for ba for 6 years, and yes ba techs are one of the best paid in the industry, theres no where else i can earn 25000 basic however before people start we have more responsibility than other airlines. the problem is people need to stop squabbling between the workers and vent frustration at the managers. course senior people on dinasaur contracts are going to be paid more, we were state owned and have only been private since 1987 so the new contracts have only been around recently. GET RID OF THE STUPID 'support staff' that lets face it we can all do without and lets get back to doing what ba does best and that flying a profitable excellent airline
P.S. bring back lord king!
P.S. bring back lord king!
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Deskpilot,
On the of the subject of CSDs, I don't think that people are saying "sack them". They are just querying whether the roleis necessary when we have a purser for each cabin and no other airline has them. Some of the enmity you see against them may come from the fact that some of them think that they are second in command of the aircraft, and treat F/Os with contempt because they haven't been in the company as long as them.
As far as the 5 star hotels pilots reside in (the cabin crew do as well), where would you have them stay- the local youth hostel? Hotels may be a bit of a treat for people who rarely stay in them, but they get pretty tedious after a while, when one would rather be at home and be able to go to the bank/shopping/party etc.
Finally, you make out its absolutely brilliant being a pilot- the company hurls huge sums of money at them, they stay in 5 star hotels in sunny locations ( it's never 3 o'clock in the morning, snowing, with the aircraft covered in ice in your little fantasy world)and do hardly any work. This begs the question, why don't you (and everybody else who knocks pilots for these reasons) do it then?
I promise not to stand in your way 
On the of the subject of CSDs, I don't think that people are saying "sack them". They are just querying whether the roleis necessary when we have a purser for each cabin and no other airline has them. Some of the enmity you see against them may come from the fact that some of them think that they are second in command of the aircraft, and treat F/Os with contempt because they haven't been in the company as long as them.
As far as the 5 star hotels pilots reside in (the cabin crew do as well), where would you have them stay- the local youth hostel?
Hotels may be a bit of a treat for people who rarely stay in them, but they get pretty tedious after a while, when one would rather be at home and be able to go to the bank/shopping/party etc.Finally, you make out its absolutely brilliant being a pilot- the company hurls huge sums of money at them, they stay in 5 star hotels in sunny locations ( it's never 3 o'clock in the morning, snowing, with the aircraft covered in ice in your little fantasy world)and do hardly any work. This begs the question, why don't you (and everybody else who knocks pilots for these reasons) do it then?
I promise not to stand in your way
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Desk Pilot -
I hope your future is assured within BA. It is understandable that you feel that 'us pilots' tend to blame all else before we turn upon ourselves. That is the nature of the group and this is unfortunately a pilots web site.
IM are probably the most ineffective/inefficient department in BA. None of you individually, are to blame, but the chaotic Database Management Systems that tangle and knot up the company remind of the cliche - "A good workman never blames his tools except in I.T.".
Running an airline is the most chaotic environment regarding data sharing and it would appear that British Airways has never had the balls to take on a long 'down-time' period in order to harmonise the data sharing amongst departments. Unfortunately the dark shadow of system instability bit us firmly on the arse in March when we lost many millions of revenue due to some 'human error' regarding our mainframe back up. Apparently this error was by a contractor, being paid enormous amounts, to do a job that ultimately had as much impact as one of our pilots pranging an aircraft (revenue not lives thankfully).
Pilots have given (according to BALPA) a productivity rise of 25% in the last few years compared to their salary. How do we measure your group?
It is harder to quantify isn't it?
What do we have to show from IM? A miserable March and some nifty E-Commerce.
Instead, we the pilots will continually be quoted by weasel journalists to be earning £50k plus as a new entrant rising to £200k for Senior Captains. I heard some programmers earn more than a Junior Captain. Fair? Who cares...
Allow me to quote a friend, who is a pilot, who was previously an office based manager. Upon hearing he had been accepted at the Oxford Air Training School he sat down at his desk and decided to test how long he could play Patience/Minefield/whatever on his PC before he was discovered to be shirking his role. After 3 weeks the novelty wore off.
That, to me, is the novelty of management. It has many facets but on the whole it is one of enforcement and monitoring. It is the link to the directors/Senior management that changes in business plan are carried out correctly. Our current plan is to do what we do well, with LESS aircraft and consequently LESS employees. That plan requires significantly less management because the plan is not for change but reduction. Our roles will be identical but just a little more work for a little less pay. It is not them and us. We just don't need many managers at the moment.
You keep the systems up and running, we'll fly the aircraft safely and we don't need people to draw graphs to show the senior management/directors how we're coping.
I hope your future is assured within BA. It is understandable that you feel that 'us pilots' tend to blame all else before we turn upon ourselves. That is the nature of the group and this is unfortunately a pilots web site.
IM are probably the most ineffective/inefficient department in BA. None of you individually, are to blame, but the chaotic Database Management Systems that tangle and knot up the company remind of the cliche - "A good workman never blames his tools except in I.T.".
Running an airline is the most chaotic environment regarding data sharing and it would appear that British Airways has never had the balls to take on a long 'down-time' period in order to harmonise the data sharing amongst departments. Unfortunately the dark shadow of system instability bit us firmly on the arse in March when we lost many millions of revenue due to some 'human error' regarding our mainframe back up. Apparently this error was by a contractor, being paid enormous amounts, to do a job that ultimately had as much impact as one of our pilots pranging an aircraft (revenue not lives thankfully).
Pilots have given (according to BALPA) a productivity rise of 25% in the last few years compared to their salary. How do we measure your group?
It is harder to quantify isn't it?
What do we have to show from IM? A miserable March and some nifty E-Commerce.
Instead, we the pilots will continually be quoted by weasel journalists to be earning £50k plus as a new entrant rising to £200k for Senior Captains. I heard some programmers earn more than a Junior Captain. Fair? Who cares...
Allow me to quote a friend, who is a pilot, who was previously an office based manager. Upon hearing he had been accepted at the Oxford Air Training School he sat down at his desk and decided to test how long he could play Patience/Minefield/whatever on his PC before he was discovered to be shirking his role. After 3 weeks the novelty wore off.
That, to me, is the novelty of management. It has many facets but on the whole it is one of enforcement and monitoring. It is the link to the directors/Senior management that changes in business plan are carried out correctly. Our current plan is to do what we do well, with LESS aircraft and consequently LESS employees. That plan requires significantly less management because the plan is not for change but reduction. Our roles will be identical but just a little more work for a little less pay. It is not them and us. We just don't need many managers at the moment.
You keep the systems up and running, we'll fly the aircraft safely and we don't need people to draw graphs to show the senior management/directors how we're coping.
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A few quotes from this thread...
"Thirdly, The IT people are simply taking the p*ss. But then, on reflection, they do everywhere, so thats not a problem purely at BA!!"
"IM are probably the most ineffective/inefficient department in BA. "
"the dark shadow of system instability bit us firmly on the arse in March when we lost many millions of revenue due to some 'human error' regarding our mainframe back up. Apparently this error was by a contractor, being paid enormous amounts"
"What do we have to show from IM? A miserable March and some nifty E-Commerce."
Well, that makes great reading doesn't it? I've been an interested observer of this forum for a while - it's a great insight into a world which I have no direct contact with. I'm not a pilot, have no desire whatsoever to be one (amazing, eh?) but am fascinated by the area.
One thing I would never do, is to spout forth on the merits of pilots, how to do their job, or whether a CSD is better/more valuable etc etc. So why do people think they know all about IM? Without it there is NO airline, ditto pilots. And exactly how did someone come by the fact that a rich contractor cost the company millions?
Why don't we do a few things - let pilots do what they do best (and deserve high pay for), let IT people do the same, and pull together rather than apart before the industry dies on its feet.
"Thirdly, The IT people are simply taking the p*ss. But then, on reflection, they do everywhere, so thats not a problem purely at BA!!"
"IM are probably the most ineffective/inefficient department in BA. "
"the dark shadow of system instability bit us firmly on the arse in March when we lost many millions of revenue due to some 'human error' regarding our mainframe back up. Apparently this error was by a contractor, being paid enormous amounts"
"What do we have to show from IM? A miserable March and some nifty E-Commerce."
Well, that makes great reading doesn't it? I've been an interested observer of this forum for a while - it's a great insight into a world which I have no direct contact with. I'm not a pilot, have no desire whatsoever to be one (amazing, eh?) but am fascinated by the area.
One thing I would never do, is to spout forth on the merits of pilots, how to do their job, or whether a CSD is better/more valuable etc etc. So why do people think they know all about IM? Without it there is NO airline, ditto pilots. And exactly how did someone come by the fact that a rich contractor cost the company millions?
Why don't we do a few things - let pilots do what they do best (and deserve high pay for), let IT people do the same, and pull together rather than apart before the industry dies on its feet.
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Just a few facts for you.
Press Release from BA themselves:
600 senior managers to take 10% pay cut. 600 senior managers equals one senior manager for every 100 members of staff. Each senior manager starts on about £50000 rising to £80000 plus company car, first class staff travel entitlement back dated to date of birth in some cases. Each one therefore is costing the company 100-160k per year in related costs.
Press Release from BA themselves:
24000 management staff taking pay cut That leaves 36000 non-management staff and hence two chiefs for every three indians.
BA fact book on-line:
In the five years since 1996 the company has gone from £640m in profit to a paltry £10m this year which was funded out of £250m of asset sales. Over the five years the profit per 100 employees, hence every senior manager (see above) has fallen from £1.10 to 0.75 p. During that period we have sold approx. £350m of fixed assets. During this period we hired 12000 additional staff who do not appear to have contributed to the bottom line.
During that period £75m was thrown away into ‘Air Russia’, £XXXm was wasted on the tail fiasco (the figure is disputed but I’m sure you all know – the city certainly does). During that period £1bn of loans were negotiated at a fixed repayment rate of 8%. The list goes on, £20000 per year for the pot plant contract etc
I despair. Now they’ve cancelled Christmas and they’re stealing my paltry increment for next year. The Lord Protector must be killing himself laughing. One month ago he was the fall guy brought into face the music over pay, now I swear he must be kissing a signed photo of bin Laden every morning.
If anyone in the city is reading this would you please help us. We have to get rid of these assholes. The gravy train is fast running out of steam and they’re ripping up the furniture to stoke the fire.
I could cry. Maybe we should have left the pot plants in charge for the last 5 years.
Press Release from BA themselves:
600 senior managers to take 10% pay cut. 600 senior managers equals one senior manager for every 100 members of staff. Each senior manager starts on about £50000 rising to £80000 plus company car, first class staff travel entitlement back dated to date of birth in some cases. Each one therefore is costing the company 100-160k per year in related costs.
Press Release from BA themselves:
24000 management staff taking pay cut That leaves 36000 non-management staff and hence two chiefs for every three indians.
BA fact book on-line:
In the five years since 1996 the company has gone from £640m in profit to a paltry £10m this year which was funded out of £250m of asset sales. Over the five years the profit per 100 employees, hence every senior manager (see above) has fallen from £1.10 to 0.75 p. During that period we have sold approx. £350m of fixed assets. During this period we hired 12000 additional staff who do not appear to have contributed to the bottom line.
During that period £75m was thrown away into ‘Air Russia’, £XXXm was wasted on the tail fiasco (the figure is disputed but I’m sure you all know – the city certainly does). During that period £1bn of loans were negotiated at a fixed repayment rate of 8%. The list goes on, £20000 per year for the pot plant contract etc
I despair. Now they’ve cancelled Christmas and they’re stealing my paltry increment for next year. The Lord Protector must be killing himself laughing. One month ago he was the fall guy brought into face the music over pay, now I swear he must be kissing a signed photo of bin Laden every morning.
If anyone in the city is reading this would you please help us. We have to get rid of these assholes. The gravy train is fast running out of steam and they’re ripping up the furniture to stoke the fire.
I could cry. Maybe we should have left the pot plants in charge for the last 5 years.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
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Roobarb - FACT BA Senior Management salries start well below £50,000 - ask my wife!
FACT - Only about half of Senior Managers have a company car - ask my wife!
Sorry if this spoils your views on life but there you go!
FACT - Only about half of Senior Managers have a company car - ask my wife!
Sorry if this spoils your views on life but there you go!
Join Date: Feb 2000
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"This airline is in a mess and we must all shoulder the burden of preserving it"
You cannot ask the pilots to shoulder any such burden - there's silver braid and chips there already - no room left for burdens I'm afraid.
You cannot ask the pilots to shoulder any such burden - there's silver braid and chips there already - no room left for burdens I'm afraid.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Gatwick
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There can be no doubt but that the aircrew are suffering great hardship and there should be no mocking on this forum of their reduced fortunes.
(And let's not forget the Mercedes, BMW and especially TVR dealerships around Gatwick and Heathrow who report lower than ever sales to BA long haul pilots)
(And let's not forget the Mercedes, BMW and especially TVR dealerships around Gatwick and Heathrow who report lower than ever sales to BA long haul pilots)