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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:16
  #1301 (permalink)  
 
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Prosecutor's statements do seem to be unnecessarily conclusive at this stage... surely the circumstances of the descent or the prevention of entry to FD require further investigation and facts to properly establish "intention".

The prosecutor may be in possession of more information than we have. Something may have been said on the CVR which betrayed intent.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:17
  #1302 (permalink)  
 
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In these circumstances (suicide descent) what could a c/c member on the f/d do? He/she would not know how to reverse the actions of the co-pilot.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:18
  #1303 (permalink)  
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marie paire

b) in the initial press conference today it was stated he had to click some button? multiple times during descent (sorry i am no pilot ) which could only be manually inputed

c) it was also stated they could hear normal breathing on the recorders all the way through to the end
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:19
  #1304 (permalink)  
 
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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

At least he didn't pull the CVR/FDR C/Bs so the cause was quickly determined. Maybe that was a deliberate act too...........
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:21
  #1305 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AmuDarya
Not a pilot but all this seems highly irregular for an aircraft disaster investigation.

1. Needless reveal by Prosecutor (not an aviation professional or regulator) of screams heard on CVR within 48 hours even as relatives are still in deep shock.
2. How could the Prosecutor possibly know of intent or voluntary action at this early stage?
3. What investigative purpose or public purpose is served by revealing information from the CVR before a careful audio analysis, properly synced to flight data is complete? This is not an overnight process.
4. Conversely, strong statements by a person in a position of supervision over an investigation may 'set' minds and hinder the careful unearthing of alternative explanations and chain of events.
5. In any case, I understand that air accident investigations in France have only recently been assigned to regional prosecutors a few months ago as a result of administrative and legal changes.
It's quite possible the gent is unacquainted with the kind of painstaking, fact based, non-judgmental, non-accusatory mindset that I understand is needed for successful, quality air accident investigatory work.
In the US, aircraft crashes are considered federal crime scenes and under the jurisdiction of the FBI until criminal acts are ruled out. I was working at an aircraft crash scene with fatalities and quite surprised to see the FBI there from very early on.

The prosecutors are part of an investigative process which is run differently than a safety board inquiry. To make a statement based on what is known at this moment is not unheard of in criminal cases. Typical statements to the media will be, here is what we know now and here is what we are doing next.

Only in cases where the information must be withheld to help cross check against statements will they not release what they know. There is typically a duty to tell as much as they reasonably can to the public without delay. Releasing what they know about what is on the CVR is unlikely to change someone else's statement about the incident.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:22
  #1306 (permalink)  
 
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i don't know the 320 but are CVR and FDR CB's accessible to the crew ?
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:23
  #1307 (permalink)  
 
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Sloppy joe

Answer to your query


LOCK position :
Once the button has been moved to this position, the door is locked ; emergency access, the buzzer, and the keypad are #inhibited# for a preselected time (5 to 20 min).

This may explain why the cvr seemed to indicate that the Capt did not use the emergency access code. Since it could only be confirmed by a recording of the beeps of the keyboard or the buzzer going off in the flight deck. If they were inhibited, no noise was created.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:23
  #1308 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dazdaz1 View Post
In these circumstances (suicide descent) what could a c/c member on the f/d do? He/she would not know how to reverse the actions of the co-pilot.
Unlock the door for the Captain to enter the FD?
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:28
  #1309 (permalink)  
 
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The prosecutor may be in possession of more information than we have. Something may have been said on the CVR which betrayed intent.
Precisely my thought. But why condemn the PF on secret facts that could have easily been provided along with the statement. Let's face it, the statement was highly prejudicial already... surely some supporting facts would have helped out a little and mitigated the speculation that the statement was premature.

As a matter of law, concluding that a pilot is a murderer is wrong, but disclosing facts that strongly suggested that the pilot is a murderer is perfectly legitimate. It is for the courts to make these kinds of conclusions... preferably after a trial.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:29
  #1310 (permalink)  
 
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If the co pilot dos deliberately crash the aircraft through depression then I feel sorry for him as well as the poor souls behind him. I Witnessed someone with depression and I would describe them as numb and I could realistically see someone descending the aircraft breathing normally almost acting in third person.

With airline management known for being some of the most ruthless out there how many others are running close to breaking point?

Management are disrespectful, constantly looking to cut terms and conditions and placing finacial pressures on new joiners that are incompatible to the post undertaken.

The regulators are indifferent and the politicians won't touch anything until it gives them bad press.

And all the while the foxes are in charge of the turkey farm!
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:29
  #1311 (permalink)  
 
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yesterday when they were showing graphs of the descent, 3000ft/min I think, they didn't say there was anything unusual about that rate of descent but today they are calling it a "steep descent"

is this a steep descent, would the pax feel it
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:31
  #1312 (permalink)  
 
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i'm not a pilot, but i am curious if cellphones might have survived the impact without damage.

sadly, there were many high school aged kids aboard. i wouldn't be surprised if some of them videoed the pilot banging on the door. if cell phones are possibly intact after impact, they might provide additional intelligence.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:31
  #1313 (permalink)  
 
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There is a tendency to over-regulate by prescribing hardware. This is actually a "political" issue, driven by human nature, rather than a technical one.

Those locked doors have now killed more people than they have saved.

In the "parallel universe" of merchant shipping we had the same problem with "release on load lifeboat hooks" - which killed more people than they saved - and we have just seen the regulations changed again.

Time for another cool, calm, look at those doors.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:32
  #1314 (permalink)  
 
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:33
  #1315 (permalink)  
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Matthias Gebauer, Der Spiegel magazine's online chief correspondent, has tweeted that co-pilot Andreas Lubitz may have suffered from depression or burnout.

He says he spoke to his neighbours and friends who said he was struck by depression during the several months he took out of his pilot training in 2009.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:34
  #1316 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wirbelsturm View Post
You want more? Pay more for the ticket.
Sadly, we don't really get that choice. Pretty much every airline is now going the 'cut costs at any cost' route, and they don't offer a 'pay $100 extra to fly on a plane with three of our most experienced pilots in the cockpit' option.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:34
  #1317 (permalink)  
 
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The A320 has a door keypad system to get into the cockpit, the only way the code would not allow access to the cabin would be a manual override from inside the cockpit
Or he is entering the wrong code
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:36
  #1318 (permalink)  
 
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A vulnerable guy..pissed off with massive loans to get where he was..a long climb up the ladder.. A management culture based on LCC crap..a roster that pushed 100 hrs/month..regular early kick offs..no prospect of command...salary paying zip..profit share?...wtf..!working under the perceived umbrella of Lufthansa competence...welcome to the mental Swiss cheese..650 hours ..Total!!!! Give me a break..!

Well to be fair that just about sums it up! Don't worry about fixing the door, fix the industry.
Sky news BBC etc should actually talk about this rather thN have a guest from a company providing an initio students to the industry talking drivel!
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:36
  #1319 (permalink)  
 
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Those locked doors have now killed more people than they have saved.
How can we ever know how many lives have potentially been saved??
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:36
  #1320 (permalink)  
 
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Post

Originally Posted by SimplytheBeast
So we have a European built aircraft operated by a European Company , Flying between two European Countries. The investigation is being carried out by European Agencies yet for some reason Americans tell us almost immediately that there is no terrorist connection and now a Senior American Military official is allegedly leaking information the the NYT about information gleaned from the CVR. Not comfortable with how this is playing out.
CNN is reporting that the Government of France has formally requested the American Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to assist with the Germanwings investigation.
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