Runway excursion by DL MD-80

[Flap62]

AirScotia,

I do wonder sometimes if we should have a more rigorous vetting procedure before letting people fly. If you block me and my familiy's way to an exit in an emergency evacuation while you get your phone, laptop, man bag or whatever then you better brace yourself fella.

[neilki]

Before Landing PAX brief

i've been waiting years to bring this up; but we've all grown up making and hearing cabin safety briefings before take off.
Why, with landing being the most statistically risk prone phase of flight, should we not repeat the briefing, with emphasis on emergency egress and how leave the aircraft in a sensible (no bags) fashion.
discuss.?

[Capt Claret]

Mr Boeing and airbus need central locking on the overhead lockers - when engines go off they unlock hey presto

So now we'll evacuate with the engines running to keep the lockers locked.

overhead locks operate with seatbelt signs. simple

Somewhat counter intuitive to be ordering pax to evacuate whilst the seatbelt sign stays on in order to lock the lockers!

[expat400]

Oh my god... Wonder if you "bag-police" guys are the same as the "guard-police"?

How many people have died due to fellow pax bringing some stuff with them in an accident like this one? Have you seen people bringing bags out of a burning aircraft?

[mm43]

NTSB Update

NTSB Issues Brief Update on the Delta Air Lines Accident at LaGuardia

[TacomaSailor]

A reality check for bags and evacuation

I am a big guy and barely fit in the seats available in the back of the bus

My business and professional life is in my computer

My wallet & passport are in my computer bag 'cause the airline seat is so narrow that I can not sit down with it in my pocket

There is no way in hell I am getting off the airplane without my small computer bag and computer.

No one anytime anywhere has shown a shred of evidence that passengers carrying their personal effects hinders evacuation

The rude and condescending remarks made here about passengers remind me why current air travel is so distasteful compared to 40 some years ago. Back then passengers were welcome guests, now much of the airplane staff treat us as unwashed, unwelcome, ignorant interlopers.

[LGW Vulture]

Yeah...no wonder when you continue to ignore or disobey instructions.

[Una Due Tfc]

Carrying a bag in your arms increases the risk of you injuring yourself going down the slide, particularly on a widebody. Extra mass = more impact absorbed by your ankles etc and you are unbalanced reaching the bottom. Combine that with being elderly or fat and it's goodbye ankles. Not to mention leaving people to potentially burn to death while you retrieve your belongings.

[NSEU]

How many people have died due to fellow pax bringing some stuff with them in an accident like this one?

It's relatively easy to categorise the type of accident well after the event. Aircraft incidents always have the potential of becoming accidents very quickly.

Have you seen people bringing bags out of a burning aircraft?

Asiana Flight 214 crash video shows terrifying moment passengers fled burning jet | Daily Mail Online

We once had an over-enthusiastic flight crew member break his arm when he took a fire extinguisher down a slide with him when there was a brake fire. Is it a possibility that the extinguisher interfered with his ability to balance on the slide?

And what if the passengers lose these items on the way down the slides. Do we have to slide through a debris field or stumble over a pile of cabin bags at the end of a slide?

My wallet & passport are in my computer bag 'cause the airline seat is so narrow that I can not sit down with it in my pocket

I really don't think economy passenger seat widths have changed that much in 40 years. I carry back up data for my computer on a multi-gigabyte USB stick in my pocket. A passport I can always carry in my shirt pocket.
Agreed, things have changed in 40 years. In general, people have become much more blasé about air travel, treat air travel as they would bus travel, do ignore the advice given to them based on decades of safety studies (including dressing appropriately).

now much of the airplane staff treat us as unwashed, unwelcome, ignorant interlopers.

Wouldn't it be the responsibility of staff to treat you as ignorant? They can't assume you know everything about safety, hence the safety briefing.. and the safety cards in the seat pocket (which most seem to ignore). Do you keep your sensible shoes on for takeoff and landing? (safety cards sometimes tell you this) I'm sure the passenger next to you would care more about whether you are unwashed or not.
40 years ago you would have been denied boarding for wearing t-shirts, shorts and sandals (on safety grounds). How times have changed.

[PrivtPilotRadarTech]

Thanks Miraculix and Centaurus re: tail-blanking

Thanks Miraculix and Centaurus, that was quite interesting reading about the technical problems associated with thrust-reversers on rear-mounted engines when landing on slick runways. It makes sense. That's why I read Pprune- to get insight from pros.

[skyhighfallguy]

tacomasailor


I suggest you get your life in order and not depend on your computer bag. certainly a US passport will fit in your pocket along with driver's license, money and even a cell phone.

IF I ordered an evacuation and ordered you to not take your bag AND YOU DID NOT COMPLY and anyone was hurt due to this I WOULD HOPE MY COMPANY WOULD SUE THE HELL OUT OF YOU>


There are FEDERAL LAWS about following the instructions of the flight crew.

and if you are so big that you can't put your wallet in your pocket, buy first class seats or two coach seats.

Sorry, airliners are built for average size people. Get over it. I'm big too and my shoulders stick out in the aisle when I am deadheading . Deal with it.

And flying 40 years ago? Fine. Contact your congressman and reinstate the regulated airline environment


There is one boss on the plane, the captain. The others are his representatives on the spot. Copilot, Flight Attendants and so forth.

And if you don't want to fly with me, fine.

[AirScotia]

Flap62: AirScotia,

I do wonder sometimes if we should have a more rigorous vetting procedure before letting people fly. If you block me and my familiy's way to an exit in an emergency evacuation while you get your phone, laptop, man bag or whatever then you better brace yourself fella.

TacomaSailor: The rude and condescending remarks made here about passengers remind me why current air travel is so distasteful compared to 40 some years ago. Back then passengers were welcome guests, now much of the airplane staff treat us as unwashed, unwelcome, ignorant interlopers.

I'm always struck by the way that so many PPruners sneer at passengers, in particular the fact that pax don't pay attention to the safety briefing, and don't behave 'correctly' in emergencies.

Unlike the airline staff, passengers are not trained in emergencies. Quite the contrary - the flight is sold to them as a seamless way to get from Airport A to Airport B, and the safety briefing is carefully designed to be a perfunctory bit of bureaucracy that will bore the pants off every customer by the third flight. (If they genuinely wanted customers to pay attention they'd change the wording and the order of instructions frequently.) Reminding the paying customers that they're doing something dangerous is the LAST thing a commercial airline wants to do. So air crew can't act sniffy when passengers are badly prepared in a moment of crisis. The whole industry is designed to keep them happily unprepared. You can't have it both ways.

I've often thought that it would sensible to encourage passengers to wear crossbody pouches for phones/passports, and to put their coats on before landing if conditions were cold. But that would, of course, concentrate passengers' minds on the probability of a landing accident, which would be commercial suicide.

[skyhighfallguy]

airscotia.

if you don't like the wording, imagine that the world does not revolve around you. it revolves around the lowest common denominator and is not so HIGH BROW as to provide entertainment for you.

I have flown for 40 years (as a pilot) and as aan example, even while deadheading in uniform, I pay attention to the Flight Attendant briefing and I re read the handy information card in the seat pocket ahead of you.

IF I can do this, even though I am tested and basically live in a plane, you can certainly pay attention and understand that someone who is not as WORLDLY as you might not understand.

IF you want things YOUR way, why not start your own airline or buy your own corporate jet.

[Octane]

"My business and professional life is in my computer bag"

TacomaSailor, your bag would be as useless as tits on a bull if you died of smoke inhalation because selfish gits like yourself impeded an evacuation just to collect your gear from overhead lockers.
If I was unlucky enough to be sitting on the window side of you during an emergency evacuation and you were farting about with the lockers, I would be clambering over the seats in front of me.
Your claim that people collecting their items from overhead would not slow down an evacuation is laughable. I'm not sure you're even being serious? Why the hell do you think it can take up to 15 minutes to leave an aircraft once the doors open. You have elderly, young, short, unfit, handicapped, forgetful, confused, disorganized etc etc people trying to sort themselves out. In other words it can be complete chaos.
If I'm ever unlucky enough to be involved in an evacuation, I want to be off the aircraft in seconds, not minutes.
Do yourself a favour and google how many people have died of smoke inhalation because they couldn't get off in time. There are several well known cases, including ones involving intact aircraft i.e. they didn't crash.....

[Shore Guy]

All cockpit qualified crewmembers......go figure


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ5l2keoF40

[expat400]

When 50 pax have died due to fellow pax bringing their bags during evacuation we might get central locking on the bins. Until then such an extremely expensive modification won't happen. So until then do as I do, stop whining and accept that pax (including deadheading crew) will bring stuff off the plane.
Foul mouthing our passengers here won't help.

[Ian W]

Originally Posted by Flap62

AirScotia,

I do wonder sometimes if we should have a more rigorous vetting procedure before letting people fly. If you block me and my familiy's way to an exit in an emergency evacuation while you get your phone, laptop, man bag or whatever then you better brace yourself fella.

Nothing like a brawl breaking out in the aisle to increase the speed of evacuation.
There do appear to be some posting here that would cause additional problems by being 'forceful' (some would call it panic)

People are going to want to take important stuff, because otherwise, if it survives the crash, it will almost certainly be stolen by other pax or even the airline or airport staff (as happened in the South West wheelbarrow case The Crash Landing of Southwest 345 | Nick Bradbury ) and some things like immigration papers passprts can be irreplaceable do not expect someone to leave those.

Some thought needs to be given to how to handle pax who have such valuable and attractive or irreplaceable items. Perhaps advice on use of a small document bag of a set size. Other larger items like laptops will have to be left on board - but the airline MUST meet its duty of care of the pax belongings otherwise the pax will take that duty of care into their own hands and end up in hand-to-hand combat in the aisles with the people seat surfing past them.

[tupungato]

The wing damage:

[YukonHusky]

Ian W: "... but the airline MUST meet its duty of care of the pax belongings otherwise the pax will take that duty of care into their own hands and end up in hand-to-hand combat in the aisles with the people seat surfing past them. "

In certain locations, emergency situations certainly are not required for passengers adopting hand-to-hand combat in the aisles. For example, certain Asian nations where a few too many grandfathers, mothers, etc. rip off their seat belts in preparation for landing or ASAP upon touching down, jump out of their seats like LeBron James to grab their life important carry-on luggage, and, other passengers be dammed <sic>, try to pull off their best Usain Bolt impersonations sprinting up the aisles ...

[SortieIII]

I am a big guy and barely fit in the seats available in the back of the bus

My business and professional life is in my computer

My wallet & passport are in my computer bag 'cause the airline seat is so narrow that I can not sit down with it in my pocket

There is no way in hell I am getting off the airplane without my small computer bag and computer.

No one anytime anywhere has shown a shred of evidence that passengers carrying their personal effects hinders evacuation

The rude and condescending remarks made here about passengers remind me why current air travel is so distasteful compared to 40 some years ago. Back then passengers were welcome guests, now much of the airplane staff treat us as unwashed, unwelcome, ignorant interlopers.
7th Mar 2015 01:49

It is possible that the rude and condescending remarks are a reflection of today's mean spirited society? Might also be a product of the treatment that is regularly handed out by passengers to flight crews?

Anyways, as far as I remember, the admonition to leave the bags, high heel shoes, and other SHARP things behind is to avoid damaging the escape slides, and thereby condemning those who are behind you in the queue!

Sorry to see the aircraft in that state, I hope that the crew come out of this OK.