No wheels on my wagon !!
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I am sure that you can check the TPIS sensor readings on the maintenance EICAS display that is accessed from the Auxiliary panel,on the right hand side of the flight deck,just behind the right hand seat.Unlike the 74s I seem to remember you cannot print them off.We always checked the TPIS function after a wheel change,you would press the ECS button on the Display Select panel.
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Don't show the airline accounts the video. I'd bet a few emails will be sent out asking if those high cost tires are really necessary or why can't they be deferred for 30 days
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I am sure that you can check the TPIS sensor readings on the maintenance EICAS display that is accessed from the Auxiliary panel,on the right hand side of the flight deck,just behind the right hand seat.
Irrespective, this aircraft didn't even have brake temp indications on EICAS.
Are you sure? I just had a look at the manual for a 767 optioned with tyre pressure indications. The manuals don't show Maintainance Page tyre pressure displays and I don't see any room on the Maintenance pages for tyre pressure indications. All the data seems to be displayed on the Status page.
Irrespective, this aircraft didn't even have brake temp indications on EICAS.
So the crew had no obvious clue that anything was seriously amiss with the landing gear. People should be a bit less eager to blame them when there is a cockup such as this.
That said, it is not obvious what the proper fix would be. A wheels cam seems more cost than benefit if even a humble pressure sensor poses problems.
Irrespective, this aircraft didn't even have brake temp indications on EICAS.
So the crew had no obvious clue that anything was seriously amiss with the landing gear. People should be a bit less eager to blame them when there is a cockup such as this.
That said, it is not obvious what the proper fix would be. A wheels cam seems more cost than benefit if even a humble pressure sensor poses problems.
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If this link works, it is a Boeing brake energy test of a B777, with carbon brakes.
The tires I suspect were new, though I believe the brakes were intentionally worn near limits before the test. Compare the visible red hot brake disc packs on the T7 video, to the 767 taxiing in to GIG.
Who knows how new the tires were on the 767 or how many times they may have been re-treaded and how many were even inflated on landing.
The tires I suspect were new, though I believe the brakes were intentionally worn near limits before the test. Compare the visible red hot brake disc packs on the T7 video, to the 767 taxiing in to GIG.
Who knows how new the tires were on the 767 or how many times they may have been re-treaded and how many were even inflated on landing.
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Whatsa-Apologist
Give it a rest, especially your Monday morning Quarterbacking of the crew.
Really, you have to look very closely at the video to notice the smoke, and you might have to pause it and look at individual frames to see the damage being done to the taxiway.
But I'm sure there are numerous good reasons...
GIVE ME A BREAK!
These guys screwed the pooch, and I'm worried that I might end up at some future point with one of them at the pointy end.
e28 driver
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Rottenray
Or you might end up making a mistake too, or are you a sky God - I.e. Perfect?
And just for this humble non American's knowledge, what exactly is to "screw the pooch"?
Also, just curious, but if you were this crew's management would you summararily dismiss them for gross misconduct or fully investigate the circumstances of the incident before drawing conclusions?
And just for this humble non American's knowledge, what exactly is to "screw the pooch"?
Also, just curious, but if you were this crew's management would you summararily dismiss them for gross misconduct or fully investigate the circumstances of the incident before drawing conclusions?
Sorry but that is still unbelievable even after thinking about it for a few days and coming back in here again......
There is no way the PF didn't feel the drag, no way the Aircraft wasn't shuddering as the Axles dragged across the Tarmac......
So you say they were on one Engine and therefore didn't notice???? Yeah right!!!
it's bad enough with rubber on the wheels keeping it moving with one Engine around corners let alone keeping it moving with one Engine and all 4 rims dragging.......
There is no way the PF didn't feel the drag, no way the Aircraft wasn't shuddering as the Axles dragged across the Tarmac......
So you say they were on one Engine and therefore didn't notice???? Yeah right!!!
it's bad enough with rubber on the wheels keeping it moving with one Engine around corners let alone keeping it moving with one Engine and all 4 rims dragging.......
I agree... I too find it hard to believe the pilot couldn't notice a problem but then I don't fly the 767-300.
My only flat tire I experienced was on a business jet (HS125-800) where one of two tires on the MLG blew on landing because it was frozen.
We were at a light landing weight so very little power would normally be required for taxiing which was not the case and the aircraft was also listing to the side of the blown tire enough for us to notice it from the cockpit.
We taxied off the active runway and once with ground control asked the permission to have one of the pilots make an external visual inspection.
After the visual inspection we decided to taxi to the ramp which was about 500 feet away.
I can't even imagine taxiing with both tires flat and on the wheels/rims on the HS125 like the 767 did in this video.
My only flat tire I experienced was on a business jet (HS125-800) where one of two tires on the MLG blew on landing because it was frozen.
We were at a light landing weight so very little power would normally be required for taxiing which was not the case and the aircraft was also listing to the side of the blown tire enough for us to notice it from the cockpit.
We taxied off the active runway and once with ground control asked the permission to have one of the pilots make an external visual inspection.
After the visual inspection we decided to taxi to the ramp which was about 500 feet away.
I can't even imagine taxiing with both tires flat and on the wheels/rims on the HS125 like the 767 did in this video.
Quote:
Can someone explain that to me? I understand that brakes stay hot for quite a while, especially after a high energy event like a rejected takoff, but they get hottest 10-15 minutes after application? I'm not trolling, just an honest physics question. Here is a Boeing presentation on brake energy, the 10-15 minutes for brake temps to peak is mentioned on page 54:
Brake Energy Consideration In Flight Operation
The 10-15 minutes is also cited in the quick turn charts on the Boeings I've flown.
I guess as FGK said, it takes that much time for the heat generated in braking to make it to the sensor. Decades ago Bob Hoover used to do an F-86 demo including a short field landing. He'd hop out of the plane and put his hand on the brakes to show that they were not hot. He later admitted that this was showmanship, a few minutes later the brakes would be way too hot to touch as the heat made it to the outside of the wheels.
Can someone explain that to me? I understand that brakes stay hot for quite a while, especially after a high energy event like a rejected takoff, but they get hottest 10-15 minutes after application? I'm not trolling, just an honest physics question. Here is a Boeing presentation on brake energy, the 10-15 minutes for brake temps to peak is mentioned on page 54:
Brake Energy Consideration In Flight Operation
The 10-15 minutes is also cited in the quick turn charts on the Boeings I've flown.
I guess as FGK said, it takes that much time for the heat generated in braking to make it to the sensor. Decades ago Bob Hoover used to do an F-86 demo including a short field landing. He'd hop out of the plane and put his hand on the brakes to show that they were not hot. He later admitted that this was showmanship, a few minutes later the brakes would be way too hot to touch as the heat made it to the outside of the wheels.
I'm used to seeing the rotors on high performance race cars (carbon fibre especially) heat up red/white hot under braking then dissapate heat very quickly, but other parts may remain very hot.
Sorry but that is still unbelievable even after thinking about it for a few days and coming back in here again......
There is no way the PF didn't feel the drag, no way the Aircraft wasn't shuddering as the Axles dragged across the Tarmac......
So you say they were on one Engine and therefore didn't notice???? Yeah right!!!
it's bad enough with rubber on the wheels keeping it moving with one Engine around corners let alone keeping it moving with one Engine and all 4 rims dragging.......
If the taxi is rougher than usual, do you just stop?
Absent any instrumentation indication, I'd doubt the crew can be blamed. Seems more like a hole in the Swiss cheese to me, just waiting for a few more to line up correctly...
There is no way the PF didn't feel the drag, no way the Aircraft wasn't shuddering as the Axles dragged across the Tarmac......
So you say they were on one Engine and therefore didn't notice???? Yeah right!!!
it's bad enough with rubber on the wheels keeping it moving with one Engine around corners let alone keeping it moving with one Engine and all 4 rims dragging.......
If the taxi is rougher than usual, do you just stop?
Absent any instrumentation indication, I'd doubt the crew can be blamed. Seems more like a hole in the Swiss cheese to me, just waiting for a few more to line up correctly...
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These guys screwed the pooch, and I'm worried that I might end up at some future point with one of them at the pointy end.
Everything that made aviation a safe and respected industry is now being thrown out of the window.
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Where is the aircraft now? Has it been dragged away from the gate?
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N380AN
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There is no way the PF didn't feel the drag, no way the Aircraft wasn't shuddering as the Axles dragged across the Tarmac......
If the pilots' bums are sitting over the nosewheels, would there be any detectable vibration from the main gear? There is still some rubber on the wheels, possibly allowing for some cushioning. Also, the aircraft still has pressurised struts for dampening.
Do airplane tyres normally soak up all the vibration from the tarmac?
and all 4 rims dragging.......
"I'm even more worried about sitting in the back with people sitting in the pointy end who call any criticism "Monday morning Quarterbacking" and refer to anyone who refuses to automatically join the "well done to the crew" coir as "skygods."
Everything that made aviation a safe and respected industry is now being thrown out of the window. "
I think you are misunderstanding what I and others are saying.
In my case, I responded to those that seem to know exactly what the aural and visual cues were on the aircraft when in fact we don't know. How did the tires depart? Loud and quickly? Quietly over a longer period? Did the crew ignore loud noises and a quick right settling of the aircraft with reduced braking effectiveness? Did they ignore a Tower call about a tire loss and smoke? "Hell, bubba, let's just go to the gate and rite-R-up in the 'book" (If so, I would join with the criticism).
From my observations in flying the -300, the list might not have been noticeable if it was subtle. The noise may have not been heard and the FA's might not have relayed anything they heard or saw. It also appears to be moving with two engines. On one video, one can see the heat plume from the left engine briefly. Why is this important? For one, the -300 when light in this case doesn't need much power to taxi. In the video, the engines sounded at idle to me which would be typical for that weight. Some here seem to think it was using more power than normal. I disagree. The right truck, although ugly, seemed to be rolling fine and might have not had the drag that some seem to think it might have. I doubt it sounded very good to those sitting overhead, but did the noise make it to the cockpit?
There are plenty of unknowns looking at the situation and the video. As I said, I'll wait for the report to see what happened from touchdown to taxi in from all parties involved.
Everything that made aviation a safe and respected industry is now being thrown out of the window. "
I think you are misunderstanding what I and others are saying.
In my case, I responded to those that seem to know exactly what the aural and visual cues were on the aircraft when in fact we don't know. How did the tires depart? Loud and quickly? Quietly over a longer period? Did the crew ignore loud noises and a quick right settling of the aircraft with reduced braking effectiveness? Did they ignore a Tower call about a tire loss and smoke? "Hell, bubba, let's just go to the gate and rite-R-up in the 'book" (If so, I would join with the criticism).
From my observations in flying the -300, the list might not have been noticeable if it was subtle. The noise may have not been heard and the FA's might not have relayed anything they heard or saw. It also appears to be moving with two engines. On one video, one can see the heat plume from the left engine briefly. Why is this important? For one, the -300 when light in this case doesn't need much power to taxi. In the video, the engines sounded at idle to me which would be typical for that weight. Some here seem to think it was using more power than normal. I disagree. The right truck, although ugly, seemed to be rolling fine and might have not had the drag that some seem to think it might have. I doubt it sounded very good to those sitting overhead, but did the noise make it to the cockpit?
There are plenty of unknowns looking at the situation and the video. As I said, I'll wait for the report to see what happened from touchdown to taxi in from all parties involved.
"These guys screwed the pooch, and I'm worried that I might end up at some future point with one of them at the pointy end. "
rottenray,
Go get yourself 15,000+ hours in transport aircraft before coming to a conclusion on an incident. This forum can be a great source for pilots worldwide to share info on events like this. I'd also include aviation engineers and related staff as well as those in related technical fields. However, most of the time, good information gets buried by others far removed from any experience with the subject matter at hand.
rottenray,
Go get yourself 15,000+ hours in transport aircraft before coming to a conclusion on an incident. This forum can be a great source for pilots worldwide to share info on events like this. I'd also include aviation engineers and related staff as well as those in related technical fields. However, most of the time, good information gets buried by others far removed from any experience with the subject matter at hand.
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There are plenty of unknowns looking at the situation and the video. As I said, I'll wait for the report to see what happened from touchdown to taxi in from all parties involved.
NSEU----sorry my bad, shouldn't have said axles......Rims is what I should have said.
After years of flying these types of heavies I can fairly safely say they would have felt something....
After years of flying these types of heavies I can fairly safely say they would have felt something....
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Flying and taxiing with flat tires are very different things.
I'm no pilot, but have driven big equipment with many wheels & tires. Not the same, but I can see how it is not unbelievable to think the pilots had no knowledge of the flats.
I'm no pilot, but have driven big equipment with many wheels & tires. Not the same, but I can see how it is not unbelievable to think the pilots had no knowledge of the flats.