MH17 down near Donetsk
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 142
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From: Sandpit
Load Toad. That certainly is true. However the western world is filled with conspiracy theorists, EU-haters, anti-immigration groups, left wing and right wing nuts etc groups who grab this type of news, eat it whole and then spread it as god's gospel in every conceivable media to advance their own political agenda. For these groups RT and Putin's ah so democratic Russia provide an "Alternative" to our western ways.
There are thus a lot of people who believe this fabrication without any critique or analysis. Then again there's the Chupacabras, big foot and Santa.
There are thus a lot of people who believe this fabrication without any critique or analysis. Then again there's the Chupacabras, big foot and Santa.
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 106
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From: Eastern Europe
This amateur fake doesn't look real, smart people noticed forgery right away. The Russian engineer association and journalists either are not smart enough or intentionally endorsed a fake - no wonder. Other photos undergo the same scrutiny.
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 37
Likes: 36
From: here
smoke trail of Air-Air Missile
When you fire an Air-Air Missile from a fighter that travels at an estimated 350-400 KIAS, then there will be a smoke trail from the missile motor BEHIND the fighter.
The smoke from the motor at launch will almost instantly slow down to near Zero speed, while the fighter continues to travel forward.
In the picture the smoke trail starts in front of the MIG - clearly a fake and a mistake by someone who never fired a missile in the air.
The smoke from the motor at launch will almost instantly slow down to near Zero speed, while the fighter continues to travel forward.
In the picture the smoke trail starts in front of the MIG - clearly a fake and a mistake by someone who never fired a missile in the air.
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Germany
Dutch Safety Board 16 Nov 2014 Recovery wreckage MH17 started
Today the recovery of wreckage from flight MH17 has started. The Dutch Safety Board commissioned the recovery and transportation to the Netherlands of the wreckage as part of the investigation into the cause of the crash of flight MH17. As part of the investigation the Dutch Safety Board intents to reconstruct a section of the aircraft.
It is expected that the recovery operation will take several days, depending on the safetyconditions and other factors. This will be assessed daily. The recovered wreckage will be collected at a location near the crashsite, from where the wreckage will be transported to Kharkov and finally to the Netherlands. At this point the Dutch Safety Board can not give detailed information about the means of transportation and the timeschedule.
Today the recovery of wreckage from flight MH17 has started. The Dutch Safety Board commissioned the recovery and transportation to the Netherlands of the wreckage as part of the investigation into the cause of the crash of flight MH17. As part of the investigation the Dutch Safety Board intents to reconstruct a section of the aircraft.
It is expected that the recovery operation will take several days, depending on the safetyconditions and other factors. This will be assessed daily. The recovered wreckage will be collected at a location near the crashsite, from where the wreckage will be transported to Kharkov and finally to the Netherlands. At this point the Dutch Safety Board can not give detailed information about the means of transportation and the timeschedule.
FX Guru
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 901
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From: Greenwich
I don't know why this took so long to surface, but Ukraine-watchers I know reckon it's genuine, unlike the tosh above. Apparently, someone says a body came through his roof and another person says, "A rocket took off."
Aftermath clip
Aftermath clip
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 467
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From: Esher, Surrey
BBC News - MH17 flight investigators remove crucial debris
flight investigators remove crucial debris
flight investigators remove crucial debris
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: USA
The Dutch Ministry of Security and Justice has declined a Freedom of Information Act request for the agreement among members of the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) and 16 other documents. The Netherlands, Belgium, Australia and Ukraine have agreed that all parties to the investigation have the right to secrecy. Any member of the JIT has the right to keep secret any information that might be damaging to them. Malaysian authorities say that they want to join the JIT as a full member.
Ministerie weigert geheime deal MH17 openbaar te maken - Elsevier.nl
Ministerie weigert geheime deal MH17 openbaar te maken - Elsevier.nl
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
From: NV USA
I don't know why this took so long to surface, but Ukraine-watchers I know reckon it's genuine, unlike the tosh above. Apparently, someone says a body came through his roof and another person says, "A rocket took off."
Aftermath clip
Aftermath clip
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 318
Likes: 74
MH17 engine covers blown off
Looking at these photos it seems both rings on front of MH17 engines were blown off. These were found in a field near the cockpit section. The engines itself were found at the main crash site about 8 km further
anyone has an idea why these rings were separated from the engines?
and
anyone has an idea why these rings were separated from the engines?
and
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,726
Likes: 103
From: The Winchester
Frankly I can't think of any compelling reason why the engine nacelles should either stay intact and/or with the engine core all the way to the ground. Where the individual parts land is then simply down to their differing ballistic numbers/ ballistic coefficients..
Ballistic coefficient - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Once an airborne structure travelling at speed comes apart (for whatever reason) the lighter stuff (panels, fairings) are probably not going to have the forward travel of the more massive/dense components such as engine cores. You'll find the same happens with most aircraft break ups at altitude, an extreme example would be the distribution on the ground of the debris of the Columbia Space Shuttle, where light weight components shed at the moment of the main structural break up were found hundreds of miles away from more dense components such as the main engines.
Ballistic coefficient - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Once an airborne structure travelling at speed comes apart (for whatever reason) the lighter stuff (panels, fairings) are probably not going to have the forward travel of the more massive/dense components such as engine cores. You'll find the same happens with most aircraft break ups at altitude, an extreme example would be the distribution on the ground of the debris of the Columbia Space Shuttle, where light weight components shed at the moment of the main structural break up were found hundreds of miles away from more dense components such as the main engines.
Last edited by wiggy; 21st November 2014 at 08:10. Reason: removing duplication
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,803
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From: Perth - Western Australia
Did anyone ever recover any photos or video footage from the pax mobile phones, or cameras, that could offer up any evidence of a missile?
With 98% of the population possessing and using a smartphone today, and virtually 100% owning a camera, I would have expected that at least one pax was using either a smart phone or camera to shoot pics or video, and it's entirely possible that they captured footage of value, such as the missile in flight, or even the destruction event. Or were all the phones and cameras that survived, stolen?
With 98% of the population possessing and using a smartphone today, and virtually 100% owning a camera, I would have expected that at least one pax was using either a smart phone or camera to shoot pics or video, and it's entirely possible that they captured footage of value, such as the missile in flight, or even the destruction event. Or were all the phones and cameras that survived, stolen?
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Germany
New pics of cockpit starboard side.
Cockpit van MH17-Boeing geborgen | NOS
Cockpit van MH17-Boeing geborgen | NOS
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 110
Likes: 1
From: Adelaide
The picture of an engine nacelle/cowling posted by 1stspotter (#1447) appears to show fragment punctures similar to the damage seen around the cockpit wreckage (presumptively from SAM warhead).
Would such ballistic intrusion by metallic components into the engine itself cause the shedding of turbine/compressor blades and result in destructive imbalance forces (i.e. the engine then shook itself to bits)?
Would such ballistic intrusion by metallic components into the engine itself cause the shedding of turbine/compressor blades and result in destructive imbalance forces (i.e. the engine then shook itself to bits)?
Last edited by deanm; 21st November 2014 at 09:49. Reason: Clarity & spulling!
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 26
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From: Finland
>why these rings were separated from the engines?
In those two photos there is only one ring.
IMO:
-it can break off if the turbine blades consumed shrapnel or missile's tail section
-also when the missile blew away the nose of the plane, some of the flying debris might have gone into engine
-the blast wave of the warhead detonation
@onetrack
-it seems evident that missile came directly from ahead of the plane
-collision speed must have been 3000km/h+900km/h
-missile diameter is only 40cm
-buk missile does not leave much trail after 15s of flight (it flew ~28s before impact)
So, no one on the plane could take photo of the missile. And if pilots had a "dash cam", it's destroyed by the blast.
about the "new" clip:
-it has been said that the audio has been edited, they say that on a longer version of the video it would seem "rocket" mentions are muted out, but can be brought up by amplifying it back
-original video is not yet found
In those two photos there is only one ring.
IMO:
-it can break off if the turbine blades consumed shrapnel or missile's tail section
-also when the missile blew away the nose of the plane, some of the flying debris might have gone into engine
-the blast wave of the warhead detonation
@onetrack
-it seems evident that missile came directly from ahead of the plane
-collision speed must have been 3000km/h+900km/h
-missile diameter is only 40cm
-buk missile does not leave much trail after 15s of flight (it flew ~28s before impact)
So, no one on the plane could take photo of the missile. And if pilots had a "dash cam", it's destroyed by the blast.
about the "new" clip:
-it has been said that the audio has been edited, they say that on a longer version of the video it would seem "rocket" mentions are muted out, but can be brought up by amplifying it back
-original video is not yet found
Last edited by sotilaspassi; 21st November 2014 at 10:36.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Joined: Dec 2002
Aviation Qualifications: Military (Retired)
Posts: 16,699
Likes: 54
From: Lincolnshire
The nacelle ring will be a stronger component than the side comes. Manufactured as a complete structure they would need to resist bird strikes etc. The engine access panels will be weaker, lighter structures.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,803
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From: Perth - Western Australia
-it seems evident that missile came directly from ahead of the plane
Then there's always the likelihood that someone just happened to be coincidentally videoing or taking a photo inside the cabin at the moment of detonation.
Then there's the interesting point from Nikolay Istomin on his blog ..
SIA351 was very close and the passengers side had the opportunity to observe firsthand the catastrophe.
