Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

MH17 down near Donetsk

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

MH17 down near Donetsk

Old 22nd Jul 2014, 13:48
  #741 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Moscow region
Age: 60
Posts: 486
Was surprised to read such an article written by a US person:

What Did US Spy Satellites See in Ukraine? | Consortiumnews

Looks like this guy was investigating the Iran-Contra case, wasn't he? Or just a peanut gallery?
A_Van is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 13:54
  #742 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 460
Perverted truth: How rebel mourning MH17 victims was turned into looter with trophy
http://rt.com/news/174332-ukraine-pl...oto-perverted/
Ronald Reagan is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 14:12
  #743 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Clarty Waters, UK
Age: 53
Posts: 878
Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan View Post
Perverted truth
Very apt words for a link to an RT story......
Andy_S is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 14:18
  #744 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cowshitshire
Posts: 990
Is there any chance that a Ukrainian military transport would be heading East into Russia, as MH17 was? Is the Ukrainian government on good enough terms with Moscow for that to be possible?
ZeBedie is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 14:19
  #745 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: what U.S. calls “old Europe“
Posts: 925
I don“t know whether we have somebody with more detailed knowledge at hand... but that piece of fuselage shell must be from the crown area of the cockpit. It is painted white, so according to the MH colour scheme it must be from the upper half of the fuselage (the lower is grey). There are no continuous stringers, so it must be from a quite far forward location. That would imply, the rocket actually exploded above and ahead of the aircraft, while all graphics shown so far seem to show an explosion in line of the approach from below (probably making use of the momentum the warhead already has approaching at supersonic speed).
Volume is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 14:29
  #746 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mexico
Posts: 20
Very apt words for a link to an RT story......
Did you even bother to read what it said. Anyone with half a brain could draw the same conclusion from the video.
Mora34 is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 14:46
  #747 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Washstate
Age: 74
Posts: 107
Exclamation About MH 370

22nd Jul 2014, 01:18 CAT1 said

I'm surprised no one has yet suggested the wreckage in Ukraine is actually MH370. But maybe I shouldn't be putting ideas in anyone's heads
Russian news media has already done that !

Last edited by SAMPUBLIUS; 22nd Jul 2014 at 14:51. Reason: provide trace who said that
SAMPUBLIUS is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 14:49
  #748 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Sydney (Aust)
Age: 73
Posts: 42
Smart move

The locals (civilian and otherwise) made all the right moves here (the initial shot aside, if it was them). They quietly found and picked up the bodies, collected most possessions, found the black boxes...

AND GAVE THEM TO THE RIGHT PEOPLE -- the recorders to the airline which owned them, the bodies to the country which lost the most. Not to middlemen (Russia, Kiev, whatever supposedly neutral international investigators were coming). What does USA have to do with this? did they even have a single soul on board?

They also videoed most of what they're doing, so if people would just stop editing them , they'd tell the truth of what went on. They did the work while everyone else is still just screaming invective at each other.

The Mayalsians, if they have any sense, will ask for blackbox help from Australia, who they already have arrangements with because of MH370, and not let the US get their hands on them either.
KatSLF is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 14:51
  #749 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: East of Eden
Posts: 157
@ZeBedie

Is there any chance that a Ukrainian military transport would be heading East into Russia, as MH17 was? Is the Ukrainian government on good enough terms with Moscow for that to be possible?
The strategy of Kiev gov was to surround the rebel cities and cut them of from supposed logistical support from Russia. The only way they could supply their troops was by air. See map: blue and yellow (flag of Ukraine) is the area controlled by Kiev gov. Clearly they were fighting the situtation where their yellow area of advancement on the Russian border was facing the danger of being surrounded.



Similarly, the Kiev troops had a reason to activate their SAMs because they made a claim that it is Russian jets that are shooting down their transports, and not rebel SAMs.

Russian jets shoot down Ukrainian warplane over Ukraine: Kiev military

Clearly, both sides had reasons to use SAMs in that mess.
SadPole is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 15:03
  #750 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: In the back of a bus
Posts: 923
KatSLF, anyone with doubts on that score should look up the video posted by Vice News. It shows citizens speaking about what they should do the day after the crash.

One is a miner just coming from the mine who says they should do 'anything to help' and they know that these are innocents (warning the video has uncensored images of deceased) They have done their best to cover them and are waiting to see what should be done. One even asks 'how can you take all this (the people)?'
givemewings is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 15:05
  #751 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: what U.S. calls “old Europe“
Posts: 925
The biggest progress shown on that map is, that russia meanwhile has adopted the english language for their countries name
Volume is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 15:06
  #752 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida and wherever my laptop is
Posts: 1,235
For those that can find out

There have been many attacks on EUROCONTROL and ICAO and the ANSPs for not closing the airspace in East Ukraine. Many airlines carried on flying through the airspace from Ukraine into Russia. One airline that would be expected to be routinely on routes into Russia would be Aeroflot (and of course other Russian carriers).

I don't suppose anyone here could have a look and see if Aeroflot started avoiding the area just after the Buk missile carriers arrived?
Ian W is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 15:09
  #753 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Montenegro
Age: 36
Posts: 285
"Is there any chance that a Ukrainian military transport would be heading East into Russia, as MH17 was? Is the Ukrainian government on good enough terms with Moscow for that to be possible?"

no, but there is a chance it would be heading to a group of encircled ukrainian soldiers where they would drop them supplies, actually that did happen several times before the crash

I know that supplies are not dropped from FL330 but it's questionable if rebels knew it or even had means to precisely measure the altitude because they didn't possess an auxiliary target acquisition radar vehicle, just an embedded radar on their launch-vehicle which is rudimentary at best.

they have seen the blip and were trigger-happy to fire before checking on something they were convinced was an ukrainian Antonov transport plane because it came the same route

"I don't suppose anyone here could have a look and see if Aeroflot started avoiding the area just after the Buk missile carriers arrived?"

IIRC they have overflown the Ukraine many times that day however not exactly the same area and not in direction coming up from Kiev so practically no chance of misidentifying with ukrainian military aircrafts... you could expect their pilots to know the situation better than others (it was all over their news that rebels have got the BUK system) and go around the area on their own.
AreOut is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 15:15
  #754 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: East of Eden
Posts: 157
I don't suppose anyone here could have a look and see if Aeroflot started avoiding the area just after the Buk missile carriers arrived?
Everyone can do it. Aeroflot flew around Ukraine long before the disaster and so did many others paying attention to situation on the ground.

SU1827 - Aeroflot - Flight history - Flightradar24
SadPole is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 15:19
  #755 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: entre ici et lą
Posts: 65
Black Boxes

Isn't it far more likely that expert advice from Russia was either:

a) how to wipe the data entirely (then can blame MH pilot for turning stuff off, with handy recent example of MH370).

or (even more likely)

b) that the data will tell no one anything about _who_ fired whatever took the plane down, so just hand the things over and make yourselves look good for once.
Infrequentflyer 789: Well yes, after all the Russian narrative is Ukraine regular forces fired the missile. The main point though here is that once evidence chain of custody becomes suspect, the evidence becomes suspect.
SLFplatine is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 15:19
  #756 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 204
The skin on that crown section has been pressed in forcing the frame to ridge along the rivet lines. Given how thin the atmosphere is at altitude one wonders if it was very, very close to the warhead.
JamesT73J is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 15:23
  #757 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Montenegro
Age: 36
Posts: 285
"Everyone can do it. Aeroflot flew around Ukraine long before the disaster and so did many others paying attention to situation on the ground."

that's the flight from Crimea which they now count as domestic flight, other flights from Europe have regularly crossed Ukraine
AreOut is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 15:46
  #758 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: East of Eden
Posts: 157
@AreOut

that's the flight from Crimea which they now count as domestic flight, other flights from Europe have regularly crossed Ukraine
Flying over and to Kiev, yes, but not over Eastern Ukraine from what I was able to determine. But - everyone can try to find it out. There aren't any direct flights from Volgograd to Europe and that would be the most obvious test.
SadPole is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 15:52
  #759 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Montenegro
Age: 36
Posts: 285
they were (and still are) flying to Dnepropetrovsk that is some 50 miles from a warzone which is a bit crazy because they are now practically at war
AreOut is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2014, 16:09
  #760 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: East of Eden
Posts: 157
@AreOut

they were (and still are) flying to Dnepropetrovsk that is some 50 miles from a warzone which is a bit crazy because they are now practically at war
I agree - which is part of the point I was trying to make that such half-assed proxy wars not treated seriously can be a bigger problem than serious wars.

What if one of the aeroflot planes crashed for whatever reason. Of course the issue would become instantly political and could be used as an excuse for Russia to "bring order" to Kiev. Some crazy people now think NATO can be brought in to fight Russia - which is either very unrealistic or very crazy.
SadPole is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.