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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 11th Mar 2014, 15:47
  #1821 (permalink)  
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Malaysians saving face?

Having worked in Singapore/Malaysia for nearly 20 years, I don't believe this stuff about the Malaysians 'covering up' what they know for days, just to save face. They're pretty clued up at senior levels (even if performances at press conferences are not very impressive). They're not stupid enough to think that with ships, aircraft and miscellaneous technically expert personnel of sundry countries running around the search area(s), monitoring every bit of equipment they can lay hands on, they would be able to cover up anything really significant for any time. 'Face' is important in this part of the world, but not to such a lunatic extent. Seems much more likely that they've been working with unconfirmed information, and pending confirmation they've been hedging their bets as to search locations. Isn't that what anyone sensible would do? For all we know they have been sharing unconfirmed information with their international collaborators in the search effort.

Similarly with the passports. They didn't release information publicly until they had something solid to release (and until they had spoken in Frankfurt to the mother of that poor chap, not least). Fair enough, it seems to me.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 15:48
  #1822 (permalink)  
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Sky reports different heading.

Sky news is reporting on TV that the military tracked the a/c heading towards the straits of malacca.

Flight MH370: 13 Things You Need To Know

Malaysia Airlines Plane: What Has Happened?

The sky picture shows that the Straits are much further south than the previous expected course.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 15:50
  #1823 (permalink)  
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FMS Data base

The 777 use Honeywell FMS system, There are several AD on the FMS. United airlines had an incident in a B747 a few years back, the FMS guided the airplane parallel to the Runway basically offset with a mile over the water in SFO.

Honeywell have had numerous problems with the data base, further you fly greater error.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 15:54
  #1824 (permalink)  
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Military confirm course change.

Military confirm it turned and flew hundreds of km's away from course.
Yahoo News UK & Ireland - Latest World News & UK News Headlines
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 15:55
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If I recall correctly - there is a local time zone difference of one hour between takeoff in Lampur and area of disappearance. IF so, why in the world does the press and way too many reports make a big deal of ' military ' radarr tracking plane about 1 hour after loss of contact when actually it is the same GMT ?...

About the only theory missing from widespread publication is that the plane was secretly refueled and is now in Area 51 . ...
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 16:02
  #1826 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Mike-Bracknell
Why do neither of these ELTs appear to have a buoy attached such that it would float?
The basic (fixed) ELT is attached to the aircraft fuselage, usually in an inaccessible spot. It is intended for use on land only.

It is entirely possible that the maritime ELT (the long thin tube, pictured earlier) does float. I can't think of any reason for that 1 meter long tubular design other than to provide flotation with the antenna pointed up. Normal fixed ELTs are rectangular and no bigger than a carton of cigarettes.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 16:13
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Flight deck oxygen fire? IFE fire maybe? Cargo fire?

It's all happened before quite recently.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 16:21
  #1828 (permalink)  
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Arrow FANS and ACARS

The earlier message about ACARS messages referred to maintenance messages. Maintenance information is only sent when there is something to report. (Boeing calls this service Aircraft Health Management and messages are sent to the airline AOC and Boeing). With AF447, the equivalent Airbus service sent messages as many aircraft systems were functioning normally for a while during the event.

Was the MH370 aircraft equipped (or enabled) with FANS? Was it using ADS-C? I'm curious why we haven't heard more about FANS messages, which could have transmitted position information as long as the aircraft had power.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 16:23
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CCTV - Already been discussed, way way back.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 16:29
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Well maintained...

I have it directly from a good first hand source that has regularly touched this aircraft for line maintenance that this was a well looked after aircraft, and that as of the last time he saw this aircraft a few weeks ago there was certainly no suggestion that the historic wing incident was of any issue.
This is a good aeroplane.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 16:45
  #1831 (permalink)  
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And hasn't read back through the thread and seen the two or three other times it was clearly explained why the phones could still be ringing !!!
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 16:45
  #1832 (permalink)  
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Isn't it time to consider having CCTV on airplanes......Am I being naive?

Yes, I think you might be.

I don't think you are; not in asking the question. It has been considered for years, but perhaps only within the cockpit. The Qantas A380, that had the engine blow up and returned to SIA, had tail mounted cameras for pax entertainment for takeoff & landing and any other time it might be selected. The technology exists and is used as customer options. Hell, buses and metros have CCTV for anti hooliganism. Considering air-rage and the effect it could have on safety why not in the cabin if only for that reason. Thinking further, about live feed, consider a loss on communication a la 9/11 a/c. Fighters are scrambled and fly along side. No communications. Shoot it down yes/no? CCTV might save everyone's life, or save a catastrophe. There was a thought that one of the 9/11 a/c was targeted on Capitol Hill or the White House. The pax saved the day on that one. But imagine a repeat without pax intervention and fighter command having to make the call. We are talking worldwide here; it could happen in any country and considering the attitude in some places that are more trigger happy than others, and where factions are slightly more actively revolutionary as well.
Further, consider all the investigative work, hours and machinery and money, that has gone into searching the sea bed for the 'boxes' because they had no idea what happened. Sometimes the cause still remains a mystery. Ask the AAIB & NTSB their opinion about CCTV.
So no, I don't think it is naive. There are already CVR's, and modern FBW a/c send a massive amount of data back by live link. The amount of data Qantas received about their engine blow up was impressive. It was like a Redbull F1 car telling all, all the time. Ask Vetel if he rather know if he had a slow puncture or not, before it goes pop. Any CCTV would be on a loop as per CVR's and have protection protocols.
It is worthy of debate and not an instant dismissal. Remember the B737 rudder hard-over. The rest of us were wondering if to was going to bite us today. No one really knew, for years, what the hell happened and why. I'm sure there have been many crashes where the conclusion would have been reached if the AAIB/NTSB had eyes inside or outside. If A380/340/330 have live feeds of data back to home base it would seem that all future a/c will have such a feature, so why not add video with the proviso of agreed privacy that it is only used after an event and with mutual agreement.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 16:53
  #1833 (permalink)  
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MISSING MH370: Terrorism cannot be ruled out : CIA

CIA Director John Brennan said there had been “some claims of responsibility” over the missing jet that had “not been confirmed or corroborated,” and that he could not exclude the possibility of a terror link.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 17:00
  #1834 (permalink)  
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Satellite/aerial imagery

The subject of imagery on Google Earth convinced me at long last to register for PPRune, as we're finally in a subject I have some knowledge to contribute.

Contrary to popular belief by many, the imagery on Google Earth, Bing, etc. are not realtime imagery. Further, much of the imagery, particularly over urban areas, is not satellite imagery but rather aerial imagery. Google itself does not acquire much ortho imagery itself; it's primarily provided by the large satellite and aerial imagery providers.

Much of the areas outside urban centers that is acquired by satellite imagery is captured at relatively high resolution (40 cm/pixel). However, extremely remote areas may have extremely low resolution, on the order of 30 meters per pixel. Because of this, it's not surprising at all for small, remote islands to appear blurry.

While Digital Globe or their subsidiaries may be retasking satellites to capture high resolution imagery of the suspected crash areas, don't expect that imagery to appear on Google Earth in the next couple of days. More likely DG will post it on their website first, and it will eventually be integrated into GE.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 17:03
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"It changed course after Kota Bharu and took a lower altitude. It made it into the Malacca Strait," the senior military officer, who has been briefed on investigations, told Reuters.
If this is indeed the case, why would you not scramble?
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 17:18
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN, but oops we lost it in the tidy up...
Not a problem within the aircraft, but expensive to transmit to an exterior location.

Very expensive . . .
So is an $X00M aircraft hull and an $X00M liability loss.

And therein perhaps lies one reason we see only selective steady development on stuff that accurately points at cause even if we see super fast development in all other areas of aerospace engineering.

A surprisingly large part of the worldwide insurance market ultimately shoulders the cost of a loss like this - technology that excuses parts of the risk market from contribution might sometimes put an uncomfortable / difficult to manage burden on the remainder.

Sometimes it is fairer for some mystery to remain ...

Not a criticism - just a likely truth.

The insurance market underwrites aviation and aerospace in all its guises - can't do without it, and I think at some levels they do get a say.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 17:19
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I have been watching this thread from the begining with considerable self-discipline to refrain from posting.
But the latest news about mil radar tracking of this unfortunate flight for more than one hour on an opposite track gave me the last momentum to post:
Very common in SAR ops. The military radar contact wouldn't have a xpndr id, so while it is potentially a clue, until it is 100% certain the a/c in question, you still have to start the search at the last known point/point last seen, which was the last transponder transmission.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 17:20
  #1838 (permalink)  
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There have been a lot of references to AF 447, many implying that oil slicks or debris was found quickly. Conversely, BEA reported at least 5 days between loss of aircraft and first sightings.



"During the morning of 1st June, extensive air and naval resources were mobilized to find
any trace of the aeroplane and possible survivors. In spite of this, it was not until 5 days
later, and on the following days, that human remains and floating debris were found on the
surface of the sea, north of the last position transmitted automatically by the aeroplane."

"The discovery of the first floating debris at the surface of the sea, about 70 km north of the
last known position did not, however, make it possible to determine the point of impact,
due to a lack of precise knowledge of the currents that made the debris drift from the time
of the accident."


"On Sunday 31 May 2009, . . . flight AF 447 . . . departure was planned for 22 h 00. . . . The French and Brazilian navies found debris belonging to the aeroplane from 6 June onwards. . . . The wreckage was localised on 2 April 2011 during the fourth phase of the sea searches. . . . The aeroplane wreckage was found about 6.5 NM on the radial 019 from the last known position, slightly to the left of the planned route."

"The first search phase aimed at detecting and locating the acoustic signals transmitted by the Underwater Locator Beacon (ULB) fitted on each flight recorder. As a priority, the aeroplane’s planned flight path as well as the greatest possible area inside the 40 NM circle was swept by two Towed Pinger Locators (TPL).

No signal from either of the beacons was detected by the sensors deployed in the area despite TPL passing by, on two occasions, not far from the debris field, on 22 and 23 June 2009. "
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 17:31
  #1839 (permalink)  
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If the point of the last civilian radar return and the point of the last military radar return had been known at the same time, would a search effort not have begun at both points more or less simultaneously and not with a 4 day delay?
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 17:33
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Passenger Manifest: Published
Cargo Manifest: Anybody seen one?
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