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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 11th Mar 2014, 12:27
  #1741 (permalink)  
 
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Even at 500 mph there would still be parts (whatever hit the water last) big enough to float or be seen from the air.

Not to mention a huge fuel slick
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 12:30
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Let me try this again...

Regardless of what made the aircraft change its course and profile...

The discrepancy between the transponder track and radar track could simply be the radar operator falling asleep or took an extended smoke break just as MH370 turned back. When questioned, he simply said that there were no abnormalities and the report went upwards. The truth only came out when the tapes were reviewed and now the top brass have to face the public for the delay of vital information. I do tend to offer a generous amount of professional courtesy to the top dogs but sometimes they are placed in positions that are caused by operators way below the food chain.

Let's hope that this new piece of information will lead to finding the aircraft.

Last edited by Stanley11; 11th Mar 2014 at 12:45.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 12:31
  #1743 (permalink)  
 
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MH370: Did authorities visit crash site today (Tuesday) | Plane Talking
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 12:35
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Exclamation

Unverified, but.......


China Times reports that "the U.S. Embassy said the 2:43 U.S. military bases stationed in Thailand U-Tapao SOS signal was listening to some of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 emergency call, said the aircraft cabin facing disintegration driver call, t
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 12:35
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US Department of Defense funded Indonesian Maritime Surveillance System

Given that the US Department of Defense funded Indonesia’s Integrated Maritime Surveillance System, you would hope that they would be aware of it's detection capabilities in the Malacca Strait.

US Embassy Fact Sheet

"U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesperson
November 18, 2011
2011/1967
FACT SHEET

DoD-funded Integrated Maritime Surveillance System

From FY2006 to FY2008 the U.S. Government provided approximately $57 million via the National Defense Authorization Act Section 1206 to support Indonesia’s establishment of an Integrated Maritime Surveillance System (IMSS) strategically located to cover Malacca Strait, Sulawesi Sea, and Moluccas Strait.


Read more: http://iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/e...#ixzz2vepwcOE9


I believe that the US currently has at least one P-3C searching in that area.

If anything was identified by that system you'd hope that the Americans and Indonesians would be much more forthcoming with information.

It's an extremely strange scenario though, the evidence seems to suggest that MH370's transponder was not operating, and no radio contact has been reported since the aircraft disappeared on route to IGARI.

Even if those systems were somehow rendered inoperable it would still have been possible to make contact with the ground via cellphone while overflying the island, the seemingly complete lack of contact from the aircraft baffles me the most
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 12:39
  #1746 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Che Xindamail
The complete lack of traces, debris or witnesses can only mean one thing, hijacking. Turn off the transponder, pull the ACARS cb's, and you are invisible to all but military primary radar. Descend low and not even they will see you. You are now in a fully functioning aircraft with astounding navigational capability, but invisible to the world. Where do you want to go?

The search area should be a seven hour fuel endurance radius of last known position. Since no ELT has gone off means it didn't crash, it landed. Remote airfields in China? Indonesia? Philippines? It means you must know how to navigate and land a 777. How many pilots in the world have undergone 777 training? Even just simulator training would suffice. 5000?

Looking forward to your thoughts.
I hate to disrupt the trusting faith that "ELT's go off in a crash" but they invariably don't. Indeed there was a discussion on here after the Ethiopian 787 fire at Heathrow on their usefulness at all. I have been involved in numerous incidents where they have gone off inadvertently. I would be interested if anyone can report the case of a crash where an ELT signal was useful. I have been involved in cases where military SARBEs worked as advertised but not ELTs.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 12:45
  #1747 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mommus
Not to mention a huge fuel slick
Correct me if I'm wrong, but considering the temperatures of the water and ocean currents in the region and the properties of Jet-A, would any fuel slick not have dispersed and evaporated by this point?
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 12:49
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I haven`t read every page on this thread (dear lord!) but just wondering - whether six hours of Jindalee records are being (have been?) very closely examined.

BTW, in relation to the capability (and recalcitrance) of certain organisations - "neither confirm nor deny" type stuff...and before continuing, google "VH-SKC"...

There was no assistance forthcoming from a supposed "ally" unit in central Oz.
[As a counterpoint to that, an Emirates flight a couple of hours out of Sydney, listening to the A/G exchanges, with several hundred miles to run to crossing point, piped up with "Centre, we`ve been doing some sums and we think we`ll come close to seeing that aircraft". And they did.]

A year later I walk in for a morning shift, the doggo dude tells me that not very long after the 9/11 news broke that very same unit called Melbourne Centre and demanded the assigned SSR codes and flight details of all aircraft intending to pass within a certain distance of YBXX.

Ain`t nuthin to see here, move along, y`all...
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 12:51
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Oh dear.... you evidently don't realise DigitalGlobe, which owns Tomnod, retasked two of its 5 satellites to photograph the area on Sunday.
To be honest I didn't click on the link, Tomnod is a silly name and sounded like someone's personal website !

I'd still wonder about whether any useful information will come of it... people with no SAR experience will simply be tagging general rubbish that can be found floating around the worlds waters..... all Tomnod will likely end up with is a database of false positives.

In all honesty, I think its more of a PR marketing exercise for DigitalGlobe than anything useful.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 12:52
  #1750 (permalink)  
 
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Quote:
Disregarding surface tension of course..
The resulting confetti will get lost in the trillions of plastic grocery bags already floating in those waters.
Just FYI, I read Sunny in Chenobyl a while back which looks at this mythical pool of debris in the Pacific Ocean. Whilst it does exist, its not in the traditional sense. During an expedition to collect real pieces of debris from the area (i.e. carrier bags, plastic bottles, etc.) they encountered almost no debris. Tests did show a high-ish amount of suspended particles, but they wernt visible.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 12:55
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If it's seen to have crashed by military hardware (eg Jindalee) why would any nation say that and reveal their hand? It's not as if it would save a life.

Might help the relatives for the interim, but that's not a concern of governments.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 13:02
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ELTs

There is much talk of "the ELT" and "how it would go off in a crash".

Can anyone confirm whether all airliners now have crash activated ELTs? Or whether just newer ones do, and the older ones just have ELTs in the cabin / rafts for manual activation?

And if the latter, what about this vintage 777? I have (slight) reason to suspect that this 777 might not have a "fuselage mounted ELT" (i.e. the location / type / crash activated that got the LHR 787), whereas newer 777s do?
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 13:03
  #1753 (permalink)  
 
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Range Question

Have been off for 12 hours. If already answered, apologies.

Lots of range discussions regarding 6 to 7 hours.

I assume that would be for FL350.

What would be the range possibilities at 3,000 feet or lower?
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 13:05
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That reddit rumour about the SOS and forced landing is 2 days old and the translation 17 hours old.

Where's that info (if true) been?



Re fuel burns. As best as I could read Boeing documents, I worked out that it would use 50% more fuel at FL100.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 13:09
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Time / Distance

Working out the basic co-ordinates - there are some 600 miles between the last known position and the Malacca Straits. Even at cruise that is at least an hour of travel. Radio silence from the aircraft, comms, or even pax mobile's from the land crossing at least in a state of upset flight / wrong direction is weird.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 13:10
  #1756 (permalink)  
 
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The MAS series of dangerously low fuel emergencies into Heathrow lead to bare faced denials and cover ups by MAS. UK authorities couldn't rely on assurances given and in the end had to insist that MAS provided weekly reports on fuel levels of aircraft arriving into the UK as a condition of being allowed to fly there.
A bit of a red herring in this case, methinks.

Flights from Malaysia approaching Heathrow with low fuel have been in the air for 8-9 hours, MH370 wasn't long out of KL.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 13:12
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Can anyone confirm whether all airliners now have crash activated ELTs? Or whether just newer ones do, and the older ones just have ELTs in the cabin / rafts for manual activation?
At least in FAA land ELT's are required and have been as long as I can remember (http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/2012...ions/Smith.pdf)

They are activated (theoretically) by a G switch and/or cockpit remote switch (I don't recall seeing one in an airliner but I haven't spent much time up the pointy end of those). They don't (just like all normal radio) transmit from underwater even if it was activated.

As for debris from mid-air explosion, I'd be looking for something a-la TWA800 TWA Flight 800 disaster - a look back - Photo 16 - Pictures - CBS News in the water if it came apart in mid-air. Apparently they have nothing of the sort in the area they've been looking at.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 13:12
  #1758 (permalink)  
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I think the point he is making is about cover ups, not fuel amounts.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 13:19
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Yancey
At least in FAA land ELT's are required and have been as long as I can remember (http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/2012...ions/Smith.pdf)

They are activated (theoretically) by a G switch and/or cockpit remote switch (I don't recall seeing one in an airliner but I haven't spent much time up the pointy end of those). They don't (just like all normal radio) transmit from underwater even if it was activated.
Your link is as I say - it is required to have an ELT. That link does not specify "g activated" - just "fuselage mounted as far aft as possible" (to survive a crash). Older airliners have them "attached" in the aft cabin, and they are crew activated.

Yes - for FAA land (and some European) GA now seem to require 'g' ELTs, but I am not sure all airliners in service do?

Leading on, were the ac "interfered with" which seems to include Xpdr, ACARS, VHF etc. then I am sure ELTs were considered as well.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 13:19
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In the Air Inter 148 crash at St Odile the ELT did not work.

Survivors had to wait several hours before a TV-team was directed to their site by a survivor who had gone out to find the rescue team.

Can we now please let those ELT signals be? Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.
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