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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 11th Mar 2014, 01:33
  #1541 (permalink)  
 
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Debris

Sadly, the South China Sea, at least the stretch between Kota Kinabalu, in Malaysian Borneo, and Hong Kong, is incredibly littered with debris and garbage. There are also plenty of large patches of oil. If the rest of the SCS is similarly polluted, wouldn't this increase the difficulty of locating debris from MH 370?
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 01:53
  #1542 (permalink)  
 
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The Malaysian authorities are handling the situation rather respectably. Their efforts to take care of the families are First world standards, in my opinion. There are enough experts and assets allocated to the search and I am certain the boots on the ground are doing all they can, systematically. Taking care of the families is now the priority as the 'rescue' efforts become 'recovery'. Those in the business would understand the meaning and mindset shift.

Having a loved one missing is horrible. I was once in a flight that was diverted, delayed and then returned to the place of origin. It was before the days of cellphones. My fiancee then was worried sick and could not find a means of finding out what went wrong and fearing the worse. In such situation, they will cling to any hopes, any theory that offers a chance of survival. They are extremely vulnerable. I find that in such circumstances those that try to profiteer are the scums. Reporters that try to sensationalise, clairvoyants that claim that they can help to locate the missing, lawyers that circle to get a class action suit, etc. The NST already reports that 'Bomohs' (the local title for clairvoyants) are joining the search.

MISSING MH370: Help from bomohs must be in accordance to Islam - Latest - New Straits Times

http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-co...plane-1.506402
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 01:54
  #1543 (permalink)  
 
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Conjecture

Given the massive amounts of speculation on this event which in all honesty is bizarre given the lack of physical evidence so far might I suggest this accident/ unlawful interference or what ever the cause is a good catalyst for ICAO to revisit Interpol procedures for passport databases/ info sharing and also real or semi realtime data transmission or alternative methods of flight data retrieval to what is current installed.

Similarly, and not that this implies a cause in this case- merely another Achilles heel to address, look at the U tube link below which highligts what I believe is a weak spot in a 777 ( in fact all Boeings greater than 767 in size as fitted) defences. I have been banging away trying to mandate a fix for several years but frankly am getting a sore head doing so. Although I honestly believe this will most likely turn out to not be relevant in the MH case, it provides information that might be in need of attention by authorities ( IMHO only)


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Old 11th Mar 2014, 02:09
  #1544 (permalink)  
 
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Woodja,

Similarly, and not that this implies a cause in this case- merely another Achilles heel to address, look at the U tube link below which highligts what I believe is a weak spot in a 777 ( in fact all Boeings greater than 767 in size as fitted) defences. I have been banging away trying to mandate a fix for several years but frankly am getting a sore head doing so. Although I honestly believe this will most likely turn out to not be relevant in the MH case, it provides information that might be in need of attention by authorities ( IMHO only)
Would someone accessing this area be able to shut down all coms/transponder/etc by pulling appropriate C/Bs?
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 02:11
  #1545 (permalink)  
 
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is a good catalyst for ICAO to revisit Interpol procedures for passport databases/ info sharing
No it isn't. There are damn good reasons why no one cared before and those damn good reasons will continue to exist after the cause of this accident has been determined.

The fact is that the illegal passport has nothing to do with the incident. The entire airline security apparatus is designed to make sure that the authenticity of the passport is irrelevant to the actual security of the plane. There is nothing a terrorist can do with a fake passport that he or she cannot also do with a real one.

If this does wind up being a terrorist incident the focus will be...rightly so...on how the explosives got on the plane...a fact for which the passport is not relevant. There is no good reason to turn the airline industry into the goon squad for the immigration authorities.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 02:13
  #1546 (permalink)  
 
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apparently not

No , nothing to worry about according to several very large carriers ,
Boeing, FAA, Homeland security , FBI , OTS (Australia ) .. hmmm anyone else
I have advised.

I might add I have 3000 command hours B777 ( among other types ) so not just an academic ..

Maybe there might be some traction on this, if there can be said to be anything
good about any crash occurring changing the status quo at all
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 02:26
  #1547 (permalink)  
 
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Jugofpropwash: the breakers are on the flight deck, but most of the radios and fancy electronics are in the e&e bay. So yes I could start pulling boxes.

Don't have a layout of a 777 bay handy, but in general HF and Sat Comms are in the tail.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 02:43
  #1548 (permalink)  
 
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Amen

@Passenger_389: Completely agree with every statement you made. Couldn't have said it better myself. The theories are getting more bizarre, and are becoming less factual. And it's a stretch to say there are many facts to begin with.

Anything is possible, within reason. A plane lost without debris, at least at this point in time, narrows things down only marginally: e.g. areas searched, mechanisms of crash.

Apologies for putting it bluntly, but this story is in its infancy and has yet to be told. It will be fascinating once discovered, but until then, everything is mere speculation. Being a pathologist (side job as pilot) it's akin to trying to postulate a cause of death and not even having a body to autopsy yet. We're still at the "missing person" stage. Once the correct areas are searched thoroughly, evidence will be uncovered. Undoubtedly it will. Until then? Not much to go on, in my humble opinion.

Of course the theories will continue to run wild...
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 02:53
  #1549 (permalink)  
 
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There is nothing a terrorist can do with a fake passport that he or she cannot also do with a real one.
Not quite, in many countries a known terrorist can't get on an airline using his own identity.
The entire airline security apparatus is designed to make sure that the authenticity of the passport is irrelevant to the actual security of the plane.
Yes, in its present state, the concept of using an immigration document for security is partially flawed because the most careful examination of identity happens when a passenger[B]arrives[/B at the destination.

Passports can be stolen (even blank ones), pictures photoshopped, facial features altered…

Lets keep passports for proof of nationality and that can continue to be run and governed by each country, but why not add a second, robust and modern layer of identity check which could be managed and implemented by interpol.

Something along the lines of a retina scan, so no additional documents to carry, can't be faked, sold or manipulated by corrupt officials.

Essentially a bad guys record would stay with his retina record.

So after passport control you'd step up to the Interpol Retina Scanner™, wait a few seconds then continue on your merry way.

Sure the rollout would take many years, but reliance solely on a piece of paper and a photo is not the future!

Transport bodies have mandated numerous restrictions on the flying public, no smoking, X-ray radiation, shoes off, belts off, physical searches, no liquids, metal and explosive detectors, all of which target trying to catch the implements of terror rather than the terrorist.

If airlines and airports the world over can agree on such a wide range of security impositions a retina scan can be achieved.

Last edited by mickjoebill; 11th Mar 2014 at 03:04.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 02:54
  #1550 (permalink)  
 
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MountainBear

Aviation doesn't exist a bubble. Many criminal activities can be carried out using commercial aircraft.

To suggest that all that matters is stopping aircraft from blowing up is very short-sighted.

If a terrorist, using dodgy documents, takes a commercial flight from A to B so that they can commit a terrorist atrocity, wouldn't it be a good idea to intercept that terrorist before they can carry out said atrocity?

It is simply not acceptable to suggest that AVSEC has no role to play in crime-fighting or ground-based terrorism.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 02:58
  #1551 (permalink)  
 
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At the risk of confusing folks on this forum with facts, a summary map of ocean currents in the search area is at Air-safety and antiterror authorities appear stumped about direction of investigation of Malaysia Airlines jet

...and they ain't flowing north in the South China Sea.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 03:26
  #1552 (permalink)  
 
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mickjoebill

Excellent comment, with which I thoroughly agree.

There is no good reason, expense aside, why a universal biometric ID system cannot be introduced.

The focus of AVSEC is wrong, as it stands. I have been saying this for years. The focus has to be on catching the terrorist, to remove them from the board, not just the prevention of terrorist acts.

I know, from experience, that airlines want the path of least resistance when it comes to AVSEC and they see it as a hindrance, not a useful tool in the wider fight against all forms of criminal activity. That, IMHO, is a shortsighted view.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 03:31
  #1553 (permalink)  
 
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Murexway

That thought has been nagging away at me, too.

We have only the airline's word that all the bags were removed. Where are the bags? What was done with them? Where are the no-shows now? Did they reclaim ALL their bags?

I guess that, unless a whistleblower says otherwise, we won't know whether the airline is telling the truth or not. We'll just have to accept their word that they did.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 03:31
  #1554 (permalink)  
 
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OK, let's try again without links to other press websites (although the forum rules only cite links to other "aviation websites"):

At the risk of adding facts to this forum, published maps of currents from Oceanographic Society of Japan data show both currents flowing south where the planned flight path approaches Vietnam. One current in the South China Sea flows south past the coast of Vietnam and its southern tip on down past the east coast of Malaysia. Another flows clockwise south along the Cambodian coast and rotating south west and then west from the southern tip of Vietnam and back up the east coast of Thailand at the Isthmus of Kra.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 03:33
  #1555 (permalink)  
 
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@mountainbear

In such a scenario, firstly the communication with the home hub would have leaked and, secondly, in such an emergency situation with no other traffic around (4AM Local?) especially in what I believe were conditions of light winds at KUL, the aircraft would have come straight in over land for Runway 32 and not gone out into the Straits of Malacca?


But to deploy such enormous resources to the grid in the Malacca Straits, there must indeed be information which is not being shared.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 03:35
  #1556 (permalink)  
 
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What "evidence" (or observation) is there that the Malaysian Government is not being completely open with what they know?
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 03:39
  #1557 (permalink)  
 
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BreezyDC...your 1st post with the link is still there, right where you left it.

http://www.pprune.org/8365573-post1596.html
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 03:39
  #1558 (permalink)  
 
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The terror organisations recognise that the sure way to win the current war they're waging against the West is to use the Ronald Reagan ploy of making the war simply too expensive for the other side to wage. If this turns out to be a terroist attack, it's clever, particularly if it can be repeated.

Someone, be it a terrorist who forced his way into the cockpit or a pilot who has been recruited or forced to co-operate with the terrorists, had to have enough knowledge of the 777 to know which nav and comm. functions to disable - and in a very short time - to cause it to disappear (in an electronic sense) in a matter of seconds. After that, it's just a question of getting the aircraft a long way away from the commonsense search area before ditching it or flying it deliberately into the sea to destroy it. (When your foot soldiers are willing to die for the cause, the possibilities that can be employed are endless.)

The effect of two or three similar disappearances will be huge. The incredible expense, both to governments and airlines, in just trying to find the missing hull, will eventually become crippling; the drop off in passengers, as airline travel becomes something less than 100% safe in the public's perception, will hurt the airlines' bottom line; the increased security measures will make airline travel an even more painful experience than it has become since 2001.

All will end up making travel very, very expensive, which means the bad guys will have won, for without easy and cheap air travel, Western society will not be what it has become over the last fifty years.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 03:42
  #1559 (permalink)  
 
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"What "evidence" (or observation) is there that the Malaysian Government is not being completely open with what they know? "


1. Lack of information regarding the basis for the turn back scenario.

2. Reasons for the extensive high value assets search of the entire Straits of Malacca all the way up the coast of Sumatera.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 03:45
  #1560 (permalink)  
 
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I'm still waiting for someone to explain why, exactly, the Malaysian government has a responsibility to divulge information of any sort to anyone except the families of the passengers and the search teams tasked with locating the airframe.
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