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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 21st Mar 2014, 09:02
  #6841 (permalink)  
 
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Oldpilot55

Essentially, yes, LADS is a variation on LiDAR. The Australian Hydrographic Service made extensive use of it to update coastal charts. I think they used a Dash-8, which wouldn't be much use here, plus I wouldn't want to be betting the success of the mission on technology that isn't proven for the task, but it's food for thought.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 09:06
  #6842 (permalink)  
 
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A couple of (well probably 10-20 by now) pages back in this thread there was a post claiming some high ranking US Military official was 100% certain Pakistan was behind this and that within 24-48 hours it would become public.

72 hours on and I think we can safely file that 'concrete information' in the rubbish pile of conjecture that surrounds this flight. Hopefully he will be demoted and kept out of any meetings discussing the next war to embark upon.

I agree with calls to refrain from casting the pilot as a villain. For all we know as a fact he might be the hero who has sacrificed his own life to put the aircraft on this heading and thwarted the hijackers original plan.

How long is it before there will be some confirmation of what the debris is that has been spotted floating in the Ocean some way off Australia?
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 09:16
  #6843 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Coagie
I keep hearing these "expert" commentators on TV, saying they don't know why the 406mhz signal hasn't been detected from at least one of the ELT's, while they are talking about the plane being in the Indian Ocean. It's because 406mhz won't go through water!!! The ELT is for a crash on land. Why can't at least one of them know this? Most of them are experts on many aspects of airplanes and crashes, but they shouldn't make out like the ELT's will work through water!
Now I'm puzzled, why are ELTs activated on contact with water then? Given 71% of the earth's surface is water there's a good chance you need ELTs to transmit from or through water isn't there? And these 406MHz ones are the latest type?

[ EDIT - I now understand that it's the CVR/FDR that are fitted with an underwater locator beacon not the ELT, apologies ]

Last edited by Golf-Mike-Mike; 21st Mar 2014 at 09:25. Reason: clarification
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 09:21
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... because they should float?
C'mon... let's just sit back & listen to the experts in their fields & not keep posting repetitive questions & nonsense noise here.

Go up a gear everyone & don't post unless it's a serious contribution or a question of some thought, understanding and erudition.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 09:26
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Now I'm puzzled, why are ELTs activated on contact with water then?
They are not.

They are activated by a g-switch which is one of the reasons why they are so unreliable.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 09:41
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They are activated by a g-switch which is one of the reasons why they are so unreliable.
Yep the ELT g-swithc activates on an acceleration of 3.5 ft/s, and they have a battery life of only 30 days upon activation.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 09:42
  #6847 (permalink)  
 
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SLFJB

I would assume there would be a three crew compliment on such a flight.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 09:43
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Don't forget northern arc

Until definite wreckage is found the northern arc is just as valid as the southern. Surely the southern route would offer no 'benefits' for hijackers.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 09:44
  #6849 (permalink)  
 
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Typical naval air search radar operates out to approx 450km and to a height in excess of 150,000ft.
There may well have been many warships out there but the radar operators are trained to take notice of a contact if it threatens the ship, ie... Flies towards it. Single contacts at high altitude on a constant heading are usually deemed friendly and ignored.
Is this data saved at all ?

Reviewing it may reveal something?

That's of course if there were any Naval ships in the area at all.

They are activated by a g-switch which is one of the reasons why they are so unreliable.
I know that ocean going EPIRB's are available that activate on contact with water. Surely that could be built in to Aircraft models.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 09:46
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Not totally correct

The fixed ELT is activated that way, but airlines may have also portable ELTs, some are activated with fluids (even urine) like water, seawater and they float, also have a self erecting antenna, others are handheld with push to talk feature! These portable ones are stored in the cabin for the flight attendants, or directly with the liferafts. Only a lurker here, but more than twenty years of breathing cabin air for a living!
I just hope that this freak story gets a proper explanation soon. My thoughts are with our colleagues, the passengers and all their families!!!
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 09:52
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Volcanicash
Are we still doing this? Just to be clear, the original source of this infographic was Reuters Asia Financial Graphics team. Their version did not show information about earlier handshake signals. The “ping” arcs were added by an Australian designer and are simply (quote) “rough reverse extrapolation of NTSB tracks based on constant speed and track assumptions”. As has been previously noted here, the nature of these additions is clearly indicated on the graphic.
As you say, these published maps are just cartoons and don't reveal anything exact about the route derived by NTSB from the pings. The original AMSA maps showed the search area straddling two courses stated as being the NTSB solutions, but AMSA said then they had already corrected for currents since the 8th March, so the NTSB course solutions must have been well to the West of the search area. Therefore, the course lines on the AMSA maps were just sketched in to give a general idea. The fact that the search area has moved significantly to the East in the last few days may suggest the original AMSA West to East drift correction is was wrong.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 09:56
  #6852 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by TURIN
SLFJB

I would assume there would be a three crew compliment on such a flight.
May I suggest that that is an invalid assumption. It is true that there should be 3 pilots but no one has answered my earlier question:

What was the culture amongst MAS aircrew? We know there were acknowledged breaches of the rules, was it the norm for the PNF to have a kip on a red eye?
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 09:56
  #6853 (permalink)  
 
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ELTs switch on when the aircraft crashes but often the aerial breaks so the transmission is not heard and they don't work under water. Hence the suggestions of having EPIRBs that float. Life rafts have PLBs with an ON switch.

Whatever is done to improve security, nothing can stop determined pilots killing passengers; it might make it more difficult to disguise the fact and get them the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 10:01
  #6854 (permalink)  
 
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Golf-Mike-Mike, very possible the media is confusing the aircraft-mounted ELTs with the portable ones in the cabin. Most are designed to float while tethered to a slide raft and many of those models have a water activation mode... the older style was such that to use it on land you needed to use dirty water or urine in a bag and stand the beacon in it... needless to say the newer ones are much easier to use....

SLFJB- what you describe would be consistent with a 3-pilot crew, I wouldn't think any 2-pilot crew would take rest like that (with one outside the cabin) In my experience it'd be one captain 2 f/os unless a training sector where it may be 2 captains one f/o, so if one did rest in the cabin there'd still be 2 pilots up front
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 10:05
  #6855 (permalink)  
 
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Turin

Most article's mention 2 pilots

One very experienced ( over 15000 hrs) and one less experienced ( but still very able). Did not see reference to a staff of three.

Given that it is reported that the senior pilot had attended some political event that day, - possibly even likely that he was getting some shut eye outside the flight deck.

As stated above have NOT seen any reference to 3 on the flight deck

Would you have three for a 6 hour flight?
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 10:06
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Planned route

Is there any way of getting the actual flight planned route filed, including the waypoints that would have been programmed into the FMS for the flight before departure? Just something that is niggling me at the moment.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 10:07
  #6857 (permalink)  
 
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Pings

Anyone notice that Hishamuddin definitely said six pings were received at the press conference tonight?
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 10:11
  #6858 (permalink)  
 
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Press conference / INMARSAT data / last radio call

Further clarification today from the Malaysian authorities that the data came in from INMARSAT but was sent to and from the US and the investigation team twice for further processing and then corroborated by the UK's AAIB.
SAR assets were dispatched to both corridors immediately they concluded that analysis. So explaining timescales over which they got it, processed it, and announced conclusions from it.

They've also just re-confirmed their belief that the first officer made the "All right, good night" call.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 10:14
  #6859 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Blake777
Anyone notice that Hishamuddin definitely said six pings were received at the press conference tonight?
Yeah he did say so. But we already were quite sure about that right?
This being now confirmed brings in a whole new angle in.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 10:14
  #6860 (permalink)  
 
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Now finally being revealed that the the aircraft was carrying a consignment of Lithium-Ion batteries !
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