Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
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Reuters March 14:
"The military track suggests it then turned sharply westwards, heading towards a waypoint called "Vampi", northeast of Indonesia's Aceh province and a navigational point used for planes following route N571 to the Middle East."
...not sure where poster suggesting right turn at IGARI got their info?
(PS. Last confirmed position before military radar blip (to the left), was 1:21 at IGARI... no right turn I have seen reported.)
"The military track suggests it then turned sharply westwards, heading towards a waypoint called "Vampi", northeast of Indonesia's Aceh province and a navigational point used for planes following route N571 to the Middle East."
...not sure where poster suggesting right turn at IGARI got their info?
(PS. Last confirmed position before military radar blip (to the left), was 1:21 at IGARI... no right turn I have seen reported.)
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510orbust
So, someone onboard took the various actions, documented by independent sources, like the ACARS shutdown and the transponder disabled, while being intercepted and shot down. Is that you're idea?
GF
So, someone onboard took the various actions, documented by independent sources, like the ACARS shutdown and the transponder disabled, while being intercepted and shot down. Is that you're idea?
GF
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...human error at the ATC...
You can't rule out human error for working guys at an ATC station....or at a primary military radar.....
Let me tell you a short story, when I served in GAF in the mid 80s. I was a normal soldier which worked shift on a radio support station (GAF) in the upper Bavaria. This station was remote from civilisation, but on a good location where you can operate radio on GHz waves. Our station was also a relay for data channels for example from CRC Freising to Ramstein Air Base, also the former Alpha Jet base (GAF) JbG 49 at Furstenfeldbruck was connected.
Due to the remote location, we had to call the guard post from JbG 49 twice a night, to know them, whether we're allright. During a nightshift at weekend, I did my first call before midnight and all was o.k. . When I made my second call in the next early morning, my call to the guard station failed. Finally I woke up the sergeant and told him what happened. He also didn't get a contact to them. So we decided to phone the local police station, because we didn't know what really happened. So the police went out to air base and found the complete guard soldiers drunken in the barracs, don't ask me what happened with these guys afterwards.....
You see, things happen.... . As a government, I would feel uneasy to admit, that my radar isn't operted well by human error without losing the face
....
Let me tell you a short story, when I served in GAF in the mid 80s. I was a normal soldier which worked shift on a radio support station (GAF) in the upper Bavaria. This station was remote from civilisation, but on a good location where you can operate radio on GHz waves. Our station was also a relay for data channels for example from CRC Freising to Ramstein Air Base, also the former Alpha Jet base (GAF) JbG 49 at Furstenfeldbruck was connected.
Due to the remote location, we had to call the guard post from JbG 49 twice a night, to know them, whether we're allright. During a nightshift at weekend, I did my first call before midnight and all was o.k. . When I made my second call in the next early morning, my call to the guard station failed. Finally I woke up the sergeant and told him what happened. He also didn't get a contact to them. So we decided to phone the local police station, because we didn't know what really happened. So the police went out to air base and found the complete guard soldiers drunken in the barracs, don't ask me what happened with these guys afterwards.....
You see, things happen.... . As a government, I would feel uneasy to admit, that my radar isn't operted well by human error without losing the face
....
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Backseat Dane. That, from an avionics standpoint is doable. You could go A/C on the transponder, or it could be re-strapped in the air to a new ICAO code. I won't go into details on re-strapping it but it would only take 5 min top for an avionics guy. But I would want a test set to make sure I didn't screw up the code.
Maybe we should be playing the ball (the aircraft) and not the player (what happened)
777 drivers. Assuming your running on fumes, 230 pax and luggage, what is the minimum you would need to land and do a full stop? No safety margin or book approved field distance, just assume 0 Kts wind. And assuming you offloaded the pax and luggage, how much to take off again with say 3 hours fuel.
Is there any area in the northern track that would meet the requirements? Abandoned airstrips from WW2, dry lakebeds, etc.
Maybe we should be playing the ball (the aircraft) and not the player (what happened)
777 drivers. Assuming your running on fumes, 230 pax and luggage, what is the minimum you would need to land and do a full stop? No safety margin or book approved field distance, just assume 0 Kts wind. And assuming you offloaded the pax and luggage, how much to take off again with say 3 hours fuel.
Is there any area in the northern track that would meet the requirements? Abandoned airstrips from WW2, dry lakebeds, etc.
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turned off
The authorities are now saying that both systems were turned off, the jet turned off the intended route, was then picked up by military radar, jets would have been sent to intercept, if no response from the flight deck with the aircraft not obeying or trying to communicate with the military jets they would have taken action in my opinion to stop the aircraft being used as a missile. Its much more plausible then the governments saying we just dont know where it is....
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"MH370 would have been crashed 911 style or similar, if some terror group wanted to make a statement"
And after 9/11 reinforced cockpit doors were introduced to shore up the vulnerability of the cockpit from terrorist threats from the passenger cabin.
As I see it today, if the threat comes from within the cockpit we now have an argument against the use of secure doors.
And after 9/11 reinforced cockpit doors were introduced to shore up the vulnerability of the cockpit from terrorist threats from the passenger cabin.
As I see it today, if the threat comes from within the cockpit we now have an argument against the use of secure doors.
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Last night Indian newspapers suggested not all radar units were "awake" (I posted a link). The longer this sad, sorry affair goes on the harder it feels to accept any official statement on face value.
I suspect India's strategy is much the same. They don't fear anyone coming in from the east -- most of their assets are directed at Pakistan and to a lesser degree China -- so the military radar there is likely to be inferior and coverage more spotty. The fact that nobody was paying attention to a low-risk area is an embarrassment for India, but not that surprising to me.
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Mickjoebill
Crew O2 has 2 setting continuous flow or on demand. How long it last is relative to how hard you breath and the setting selected. And each individual is different. If there is a decompression in in the cabin. One of the priority of the flight crew besides putting on their O2 mass is to reduce their altitude as fast as they can to get to an altitude where they do not need to depend on having oxygen. Believe me the 1800psi do not last as long as you think if you are breathing fast and hard. (how fast does your 32psi tyre deflate?)
The pax cabin has 12 to 16, (depending on configuration) 1800 psi bottle all connected together to feed the whole pax cabin. It only supply O2 when the mask is pulled towards you and not when it is just hanging down. How long is last is relative too. A fully loaded aircraft will use the O2 faster. So they are relying on the flight crew to get it down to a breathable altitude asap.
Crew O2 has 2 setting continuous flow or on demand. How long it last is relative to how hard you breath and the setting selected. And each individual is different. If there is a decompression in in the cabin. One of the priority of the flight crew besides putting on their O2 mass is to reduce their altitude as fast as they can to get to an altitude where they do not need to depend on having oxygen. Believe me the 1800psi do not last as long as you think if you are breathing fast and hard. (how fast does your 32psi tyre deflate?)
The pax cabin has 12 to 16, (depending on configuration) 1800 psi bottle all connected together to feed the whole pax cabin. It only supply O2 when the mask is pulled towards you and not when it is just hanging down. How long is last is relative too. A fully loaded aircraft will use the O2 faster. So they are relying on the flight crew to get it down to a breathable altitude asap.
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Could a four-year-old thriller unlock the mystery of flight MH370?
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Reuters March 14:
"The military track suggests it then turned sharply westwards, heading towards a waypoint called "Vampi", northeast of Indonesia's Aceh province and a navigational point used for planes following route N571 to the Middle East."
...not sure where poster suggesting right turn at IGARI got their info?
"The military track suggests it then turned sharply westwards, heading towards a waypoint called "Vampi", northeast of Indonesia's Aceh province and a navigational point used for planes following route N571 to the Middle East."
...not sure where poster suggesting right turn at IGARI got their info?
Anyway, here is the text description of the behavior of MAS370 from Aviation Safety:
The Boeing 777-2H6ER took off from Kuala Lumpur Interational Airport's runway 32R at 00:41 and climbed to a cruising altitude of FL350.
Data of flight tracking website Flightradar24 show that the flight flew a 25° course towards the IGARI waypoint. Overhead IGARI, at 01:20, the flight changed course to 40°. Last contact recorded by Flightradar24 was at 01:20 at 175 km NNE off the Malaysian coast and 223 km SW off the Vietnamese coast, just within the Singapore FIR, 6 km northeast of IGARI. Malaysian officials reported that the civial radar lost contact at 01:30 at a position 2 km south of IGARI.
Data of flight tracking website Flightradar24 show that the flight flew a 25° course towards the IGARI waypoint. Overhead IGARI, at 01:20, the flight changed course to 40°. Last contact recorded by Flightradar24 was at 01:20 at 175 km NNE off the Malaysian coast and 223 km SW off the Vietnamese coast, just within the Singapore FIR, 6 km northeast of IGARI. Malaysian officials reported that the civial radar lost contact at 01:30 at a position 2 km south of IGARI.
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Professional pilots should bear in mind that the MH370 S&R fiasco will likely result in the public's demanding changes. It might be wise for professional pilots to propose their own solution, rather than wait for governments and regulators to impose new rules. Perhaps the pilots' unions should propose that:
1. the automatic reporting system installed by the airframe manufacturer, which transmits data through the Inmarsat satellite system, be modified so that it sends a GPS position as well as hull data;
2. that the frequency of the Inmarsat reports be increased from every half-hour to, say, once every ten minutes;
3. that this reporting system be tied to the aircraft's main power bus (and thus placed outside human control); and
4. that the pilots' unions would pay the marginal cost which, at $2.00 per transmission, is not very much at all.
This service would:
1. increase the difficulty of a third-party hijacking;
2. protect all pilots from the stain on them which may remain if the mystery of MH370 is never sorted out; and
3. provide much comfort to future passengers.
1. the automatic reporting system installed by the airframe manufacturer, which transmits data through the Inmarsat satellite system, be modified so that it sends a GPS position as well as hull data;
2. that the frequency of the Inmarsat reports be increased from every half-hour to, say, once every ten minutes;
3. that this reporting system be tied to the aircraft's main power bus (and thus placed outside human control); and
4. that the pilots' unions would pay the marginal cost which, at $2.00 per transmission, is not very much at all.
This service would:
1. increase the difficulty of a third-party hijacking;
2. protect all pilots from the stain on them which may remain if the mystery of MH370 is never sorted out; and
3. provide much comfort to future passengers.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Yep, it is possible that with fatigue (and short temperateness, he could have made a monumental mistake by deciding to do something to the flight (and pax). A spur of the moment act thought through from 9:30pm to midnight?
This begs the question as to what he did with FO and pax? Further, what was the ultimate end of MH370 according to the captain's spur of the moment plan?
This begs the question as to what he did with FO and pax? Further, what was the ultimate end of MH370 according to the captain's spur of the moment plan?
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Quote (RetiredF4):
That leaves the outside job, from a group with resources, money and motive.
Could that group be some political motivated group from inside or outside Malaysia to make some statement and do some damage (terror), or a criminal group with the intent to make money from the load and aircraft (crime)?
4. MH370 could have been hijacked with the intention to land it somewhere, for its load or for criminal or unknown political reasons.
5. Planning for such a landing needs wealthy, influential and powerful assistance, only states or state organizations can provide.
Now look for somebody along the suspected flightpath with the power, the ability, the will and the recklessness for such a plan.
Iran (IRGC -Quds Force)? -Difficult to see motive here unless to torpedo Iran-U.S detente discussions; the IRGC is not in favor
Note info contained in early WSJ story when plane first went missing indicated one of the passengers was a Malaysian aircraft engineer
That leaves the outside job, from a group with resources, money and motive.
Could that group be some political motivated group from inside or outside Malaysia to make some statement and do some damage (terror), or a criminal group with the intent to make money from the load and aircraft (crime)?
4. MH370 could have been hijacked with the intention to land it somewhere, for its load or for criminal or unknown political reasons.
5. Planning for such a landing needs wealthy, influential and powerful assistance, only states or state organizations can provide.
Now look for somebody along the suspected flightpath with the power, the ability, the will and the recklessness for such a plan.
Iran (IRGC -Quds Force)? -Difficult to see motive here unless to torpedo Iran-U.S detente discussions; the IRGC is not in favor
Note info contained in early WSJ story when plane first went missing indicated one of the passengers was a Malaysian aircraft engineer
Out of your 23x specimens in the back, there are at least 10 or so that will come back without permanent damage. Altitude tolerance is extremely individual. I don't think that's a risk I'd take
Mickjoebill
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Heading Select
Barrel Owl - Push heading select dial the knob to your intended track and the aircraft turns, not sure if this is your question, used daily on every flight for vectors to avoid climbing or descending aircraft or delaying vectors
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What evidence do you have regarding which waypoints were entered in the FMC? I haven't heard anything like that. Just because the aircraft flew towards or over waypoints doesn't mean that they were entered in the FMC, right?
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barrel_owl,
Simples, the airway was loaded in the FMS, containing IGARI, BITOD....to Beijing. The FMS commanded the turn from 025 to 040 to follow the FMS plan; someone loads VAMPI,o follow BITOD, and makes VAMPI the new active waypoint, the plane turns westward into oblivion.
Isn't this the Professional PILOTS Rumor Network?
GF
Simples, the airway was loaded in the FMS, containing IGARI, BITOD....to Beijing. The FMS commanded the turn from 025 to 040 to follow the FMS plan; someone loads VAMPI,o follow BITOD, and makes VAMPI the new active waypoint, the plane turns westward into oblivion.
Isn't this the Professional PILOTS Rumor Network?
GF
The last known Satellite 'ping' could have been received whilst the a/c was on the ground.
Rupert Murdoch suspect the a/c in is Northern Pakistan. The guy may be loopy but could have a point.
Assuming a sophisticated hijack one would assume the a/c is on the ground somewhere now, dumping into the sea seems a rather odd statement to make, especially as it may never be found.
Rupert Murdoch suspect the a/c in is Northern Pakistan. The guy may be loopy but could have a point.
Assuming a sophisticated hijack one would assume the a/c is on the ground somewhere now, dumping into the sea seems a rather odd statement to make, especially as it may never be found.
