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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 13th Mar 2014, 10:09
  #2681 (permalink)  
 
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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

No one knows where to peek. Everyone is clueless. And that is our understanding if it. If there is a cover up we will still be clueless.

Malaysia does their best with what they have. No need to rub their faces about their inabilities. They do what can be done best on their part with the resources they have including $$ budgets.

When the big boys get there with all of their resources we will know what we will "need" to know and news crews will "show it all".
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 10:13
  #2682 (permalink)  
 
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pberrett i belive its +8

Last contact Acars\ engines 1:07am GMT+8
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 10:13
  #2683 (permalink)  
 
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No the ACARS does not report constantly, it reports on events....The last ACARS was 1:07am but the last signal at all from the aircraft was 1:22am.

I repeated exactly what was said at the press briefing. He said 1.07
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 10:16
  #2684 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tumtiddle View Post
ACARS does not equal transponder so what you see on FR24 is not ACARS data.
Just to clarify, on a plane the
ACARS only transmits on events. i.e. not constantly last report was at 1:07am

ADS-B transponder transmits twice a second (used by flightradar 24)
How it works - Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker! - last report 1:21am

The Radar transponder responds to a air traffic control radar painting the aircraft, the transponder then transmits information such the planes registration number, speed & altitude. Secondary surveillance radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - last report 1:21am

After 1:21am the plane ceased to transmit anything at all.

Last edited by StormyKnight; 13th Mar 2014 at 10:34.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 10:20
  #2685 (permalink)  
 
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using language accurately

1 Reports of a/c continuing to fly for some time after its last transmission are "inaccurate" - and specifically Boeing and RR agree they are "inaccurate"
They say "inaccurate", not "false"…

Accurate would be, if precise data would be named, not only "some time"…

just saying…
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 10:21
  #2686 (permalink)  
 
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Livery Man

The Minister was asked that question and his answer was, effectively, yes.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 10:22
  #2687 (permalink)  
 
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Thats about it...

I would add: no emergency beacon so either under water or intact on land.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 10:24
  #2688 (permalink)  
 
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For those wanting to read the Wall St Journal's reaction to the news conference, here is the link to their twitter stream.

Rolls-Royce, Boeing Decline to Comment on Jet Report - Wall Street Journal - WSJ.com

The original WSJ article appeared to have been heavily sourced to U.S. national security officials in Washington. And as Mr. Snowden has revealed, the U.S. captures everything in the ether. You are free to infer whether this capture includes ACARS data.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 10:25
  #2689 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by valvanuz
I would add: no emergency beacon so either under water or intact on land.
The ELT could have been completely destroyed.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 10:25
  #2690 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Interflug View Post
They say "inaccurate", not "false"…
Accurate would be, if precise data would be named, not only "some time"…
just saying…
Good spot, that's why I emphasised "inaccurate" as a quote. More to follow maybe.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 10:32
  #2691 (permalink)  
 
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Pberret,

Ads-b is sent over the 1090 mhz mode s link.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 10:33
  #2692 (permalink)  
 
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I would add: no emergency beacon so either under water or intact on land.
Why would you say that? There is also an ELT which operates in water. It is a long narrow tube-like device designed to float with a weighted down end and a transmittor at top.

Also, there have been many land accidents in which ELT devices have failed.

Last edited by philipat; 13th Mar 2014 at 10:45.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 10:33
  #2693 (permalink)  
 
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The original WSJ article appeared to have been heavily sourced to U.S. national security officials in Washington. And as Mr. Snowden has revealed, the U.S. captures everything in the ether. You are free to infer whether this capture includes ACARS data.
Yes, and the Malaysian transport minister specifically said that they asked Rolls Royce and Boeing about ACARS messages, but no mention of asking the US if they know anything.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 10:38
  #2694 (permalink)  
 
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ACARS does not equal transponder so what you see on FR24 is not ACARS data.
and

What frequency (or band) does the ADS-B transponder transmit on? Or is it sent to a satelllite?
ACARS transmits around 135MHz (VHF). The actual frequency depends on the region of the world where the plane is. At these types of frequency, once can expect reception to extend to perhaps 250nm.

ACARS signals are sent from the a/c and received by a ground station, for onward processing etc. AFAIK, the relevant ground station in that region is Hat Yai in southern Thailand.

Here is a copy of SITA's map of their VHF ACARS ground station coverage in Asia:



Although the map resolution is not so good, VHF coverage exists throughout the region between KL and the Vietnamese coast. The only area where no coverage is shown is a region to the north of Phuket Island (west coast of Thailand) and out towards the Andaman & Nicobar Islands, (but there does seem to be an ACARS ground station somewhere on the latter islands).

HF ACARS is also used, with Hat Yai again the relevant ground station, operating on 5,655MHz and 13,309MHz.

ADS-B operates on 1090MHz (UHF). Transmission is generally over a line of sight path.

From the above, you can deduce that when a plane is outside the range of reception for VHF ACARS or UHF ADS-B, no data/signal can be received, unless an alternative channel (satellite or HF is used).

Last edited by simon43; 13th Mar 2014 at 10:56.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 10:51
  #2695 (permalink)  
 
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My better half (retired BA 747 skipper) says on the 744 the power for the engine data transmission is shared by the radios..same source ( I think he said main sby bus). So if power is lost to eng data transmission it must also be lost to radios-yet there was a radio call after the last eng data transmission was there not? Or does the 777 have a different system?
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 10:54
  #2696 (permalink)  
 
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http://news.sky.com/story/1225034/ma...r-plane-search

US officials said on Wednesday none of the country's satellites detected a mid-air explosion when the plane lost contact with air traffic controllers.

Malaysia's air force chief confirmed military radar detected what could have been the airliner in an area in the north of the Strait of Malacca at around 2.15am local time on Saturday - 45 minutes after the plane vanished from air traffic control screens.

Last edited by Harry O; 13th Mar 2014 at 10:58. Reason: link
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 10:55
  #2697 (permalink)  
 
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Forget conspiracies, look at reality.

Ops Centers for airlines, ac manufacturers, and of course governments, monitor ac systems real-time or near real time.

Currently, due to security issues, public outcry, other issues, it is not generally known the level of surveillience on virtually all ac.

From the automated FDR broadcasts, to sats, wifi, and of course, the mobile devices of the passengers, it is out there.

In my opinion, the exact reasons and location all already known by these methods.

Much like AF 447, the search went on for a very long time and was then abandoned. Yet, a contractor was able to virtually go directly to the site a few years later?

I think this is much the same. With methods currently available by National Security Agencies, the location and uotcome is already known. Therefore, it is not in their best interests to reveal the information and associated levels of surviellience.

There is no need to rush, the outcome is the same, if the search takes 5 days or 500 days..and therefore, no need to compromise security.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 11:00
  #2698 (permalink)  
 
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On a B777 when VHF stations are out of range ACARS uses Satellite coms automatically.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 11:01
  #2699 (permalink)  
 
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LiveryMan;
So, we are essentially back to square one. A 777 is missing. We know how many were supposed to be aboard, the airline and flight number.

That's about it.
So, depressingly, the scenario posted by Bloxin fits all the (few) known facts;

Hypothetical
Hello.
This is my third attempt to make a post here. Maybe, as I'm new here I'm doing it wrong.
I am a licenced engineer, B747.
This post attempts to describe, with precedents, a possible single failure that would cause loss of coms, depressurisation and crew disablement due to hypoxia.

Precedent: QF30 25 July 2008 Pax oxygen bottle "explodes" tearing a hole in fuselage.

Ref: Please google "Qantas oxygen bottle explosion" and view photos of damage.
The picture taken inside the fwd cargo compartment shows one bottle missing.
there is no evidence of shrapnel damage in the photo. Therefore, no eplosion.
The bottle appears to have detached itself from its connections and propelled itself down through the fuselage skin.

777: The crew oxygen bottle is mounted horizontaly on the left aft wall of the nose wheel well structure with the fittings (propelling nozzle) facing forward. This aims the bottle, in the event of a QF30 type failure, directly into the MEC containing all boxes concerned with coms and a lot more.
Before all of its energy is spent, an huge amount of damage could be caused to equipment and the bottle could, conceivably, cause a decompression.
When the crew respond by doning oxygen mask, there is no oxygen and hypoxia is the next link in this proposed chain of events.
This link is entitled "Hypothetical" and is only that. I believe it ticks a few boxes.
Hoping this post make it and generates some discussion.
Bloxin.
So the a/c would continue on heading and flight level until, at fuel exhaustion, the auto pilot would disconnect and (thanks Lost in Saigon) "....enter a turn, begin a shallow dive, and impact at high speed."
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 11:05
  #2700 (permalink)  
 
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Pitot Probe #2715

Thanks for the drawing of that oxygen bottle.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...ml#post8371268

I understand that the bottle is located within the MEC. So even if a potential failure of the bottle or its connection is not catastrophic, a scenario in which a pure oxygen atmosphere in the MEC bay is created seems possible? Apollo 1 comes to mind.

On the other hand it is hard to imagine the A/C continued on autopilot with the MEC destroyed by fire.

A report of a previous fire in the MEC of a 772 probably linked here before :
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...7%20N786UA.pdf
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