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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 13th Mar 2014, 12:07
  #2701 (permalink)  
 
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Hornbill,

I wonder why RR aren't saying?
Probably because a) they don't have any and b) even if they did, they're unlikely to put out a press release about an ongoing investigation unless someone alleged that the engines were part of the chain of events in the accident.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 12:14
  #2702 (permalink)  
 
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This is strange as it suggests that Subang was tracking it for another hour after the transponder stopped being received. Am I missing something here?
Perhaps, yes. The times are all LOCAL not UTC. So remember that Vietnam time is one hour BEHIND Malaysia time (Even though further East).
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 12:22
  #2703 (permalink)  
 
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If it did a u turn they would have known.
One would assume that, BUT, even the Primary Military radar is obviously, well, inconclusive. That's not the kind of air defence radar that most of us would like. Especially with high profile "Targets" in KL.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 12:26
  #2704 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by philipat View Post
Perhaps, yes. The times are all LOCAL not UTC. So remember that Vietnam time is one hour BEHIND Malaysia time (Even though further East).
The other explanation I have read is that
It later emerged that Subang Air Traffic Control had lost contact with the aircraft at 01:22 and notified Malaysia Airlines at 02:40.
Quoted from Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wiki reference 18 points to Crash: Malaysia B772 over Gulf of Thailand on Mar 8th 2014, aircraft missing
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 12:31
  #2705 (permalink)  
 
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Quote:
if RR were to say that they had engine information, it might be of considerable use to the accident investigators, even without any wreckage being found
.

I wonder why RR aren't saying?

Theres probably a protocol in place that dictates that any info found is sent to the situation controlling agency then a controlled/verified/spun release of the info would be made. I think it would be quite improper for RR or Boeing or the Comms vendor to make a statement without either being invited to do so or given the permission of the Malaysians at this time. There are still relatives to consider too.

Maybe thats why.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 12:32
  #2706 (permalink)  
 
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Passengers on 911 a/c managed to make calls?

My earlier question did not appear. The last message from the a/c was "Ok - roger that" Isn't that rather an unusual response when leaving one ATC for another, surely you always give your callsign?
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 12:33
  #2707 (permalink)  
 
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Having never tried it, or even thought about it, is it possible to send a text from a cell phone from a aircraft?
As demonstrated by UA93 and several others on this forum, yes. However typically only from below FL250, and in areas of low cell density.

I think it would be quite improper for RR or Boeing or the Comms vendor to make a statement...
Under normal circumstances yes, but in current situation it is quite unusual that RR does not confirm the categorical statement made by the Malaysian authorities. I this case the source of data is RR, so if the Malaysians make any statement based on this data, I see little reason why RR would not want to second it to dispel any lingering doubts.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 12:36
  #2708 (permalink)  
 
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Can we please put this one o bed for good?

777: The crew oxygen bottle is mounted horizontaly on the left aft wall of the nose wheel well structure with the fittings (propelling nozzle) facing forward. This aims the bottle, in the event of a QF30 type failure, directly into the MEC containing all boxes concerned with coms and a lot more.

NO IT ISN'T!!

The fittings are on the rear/aft facing end of the bottle. If the fitting was to fail and the restraining straps were also to fail, then potentially, the bottle would go forwards not aft. That would send it either straight through the radome or potentially deflected upwards into the below flightdeck area. This contains the backdrive mechanisms for the control column and rudder pedals.

The possibility (of an O2 bottle failing as such) is remote at the extreme but not unprecedented.

I don't buy it.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 12:38
  #2709 (permalink)  
 
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The last message from the a/c was "Ok - roger that" Isn't that rather an unusual response when leaving one ATC for another, surely you always give your callsign?
It may be "wrong" but then I'm afraid not all of us comply 100% all of the time to the phraseology described the various manual of R/T...

As for cell phones and aircraft (yet again), hands up all those who have flown between say western europe and the far east and never, ever found the likes of a "welcome to CIS telecom" ( or something similar) text on their phone on arrival in NRT.....

Last edited by wiggy; 13th Mar 2014 at 12:52.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 12:45
  #2710 (permalink)  
 
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Myanmar DCA now reports search has been expanded into their airspace area.

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/searc...-airspace.html
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 12:47
  #2711 (permalink)  
 
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Theres probably a protocol in place that dictates that any info found is sent to the situation controlling agency then a controlled/verified/spun release of the info would be made. I think it would be quite improper for RR or Boeing or the Comms vendor to make a statement without either being invited to do so or given the permission of the Malaysians at this time. There are still relatives to consider too.
There are probably client confidentiality agreements in place that prevent RR or Boeing from making statements regarding systems telemetry and so on. It wouldn't be their place to do so publicly anyway, any information would be passed to the Malaysians or whoever was leading the investigation and then broadcast from there if deemed fit to. That's the way it works with many other vendor / supplier agreements of this magnitude.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 12:48
  #2712 (permalink)  
 
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My earlier question did not appear. The last message from the a/c was "Ok - roger that" Isn't that rather an unusual response when leaving one ATC for another, surely you always give your callsign?
This RT exchange certainly sounds non-standard. Was the aircraft transmission spoken by someone in the flight deck other than the pilots? Would an ATC transcript of the handover yield more clues?

Apologies if this suggestion has already been posted.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 12:51
  #2713 (permalink)  
 
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News update conference today: last auto maintenance message timed at 1.07 - (presumably UTC?) - all systems normal. No other ACARS / Maint messages.

I guess this coincided with exiting VHF range. As previously stated here, ACARS SATCOM not active / fitted so no possibility of MAINT messages to report at time of problem.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 12:54
  #2714 (permalink)  
 
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So is there any truth to cell phones ringing the next day?

No. Please read back through the thread.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 13:03
  #2715 (permalink)  
 
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Tracked Till 2:40 AM

philipat

Perhaps, yes. The times are all LOCAL not UTC. So remember that Vietnam time is one hour BEHIND Malaysia time (Even though further East).


I do not want to sound harsh but:


1. Why will Subang radar tracking station, located in Malaysia near KL, use Vietnam time when reporting the time at which radar contact was lost?


2. if Vietnam is one hour behind, then it would mean that it is 1:40 AM in Vietnam when it is 2:40 AM in Malaysia. Or if the radar tracking was only done for 40 minutes, then using Vietnam time it would mean that radar contact was lost around 12:20 AM Vietnam time or 1:20 AM Malaysia time.


Simply stick to Subang statement that radar contact was finally lost at 2:40 AM Malaysia time, which means that the aircraft was tracked (at multiple locations according to reports) till around 2:40 AM Malaysia time and no effort was made to intercept, a major security blunder in most professional airforces but apparently not in Malaysia.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 13:14
  #2716 (permalink)  
 
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EDMJ, you could also ask, did someone nick it, FOR a 9/11 style attack as well. Getting back to the SATCOM, when the problem arose with the A380, the QF duty engineer was right onto it, before the news from the flight deck came thru. This should also apply to the T7 and MH engineering, if a donk or donks were not performing.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 13:14
  #2717 (permalink)  
 
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I don't think you can take much from the last transmission, as they said it was the last words, for all we know they may have acknowledged a frequency transfer and used correct terminology. ATC then have added at the end something they forgot to mention, like logon to CPDLC with VVTS. I think we are all guilty at 2 am of making a less stringent call to ATC with correct terminology. Nothing out of the ordinary at all, having said that it would be nice to know the full transcript.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 13:17
  #2718 (permalink)  
 
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Virgin Blue...mah 370

Hi .
Any follow up on your PPRuNe 343 at 3.46 of 8 March 2014
re cabin break up message from Thai source ???

There was also a reported incomplete reply on 121.5 , "garbled , muffled , with static"
with a company aircraft flying some half hour ahead on poughly the same route which had been asked to try to make contact

Im wondering about pressurisation /dorsal skin fatigue, Coupled with decal removal damage refurbishing older aircraft ... Boeing has had a number of cases...... Hawai..etc
Wilyflier

Last edited by wilyflier; 13th Mar 2014 at 13:19. Reason: Contact name Virgin Blue
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 13:17
  #2719 (permalink)  
 
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underfire page 132 #2630

From this article on the 787 real time Operations Center, while it is for the 787, right at the end of the video, they note that the Center also monitors the 777 real time, but just not as much data...

Boeing operations center tracks 787 flights in real time | KING5.com Seattle
It has been stated more than once MAS chose not to share date with boeing but only with RR
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 13:20
  #2720 (permalink)  
 
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I've been away

I've been away for a few hours, and it looks like I've missed several hundred posts.

It appears that the Chinese satellite pictures were nothing and ACARS did not really track the plane 4 more hours. Please correct me if wrong.

So far, the only facts known are that the plane took off, and contact was lost.

Disregarding all the million or so reasons why contact was lost, let's look at some of the underlying, maybe unverified, but possible facts.

Oil rig worker reports seeing fireball near area of lost contact
(not to discredit him, but there were thousands of other eyes on land, sea, and air who saw nothing at the same time)

Malaysian radar MAY have detected a turn back of the plane
Malaysian radar MAY have tracked the plane westbound over the Straits of Malacca
Boat captain on north end of Malaysia reports low flying plane
Local men on north end of Malaysia report loud noise (I think similar to airplane, but I can't remember)
Most sophisticated search assets have been deployed since day 1 in the Straits of Malacca

Any additional possible facts that should be added?
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