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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:14
  #2461 (permalink)  
 
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There was indeed in the past an airliner Ocean-Ditching at night for many hours with reasonable success and survivors until the SAR teams arrived:
Remind me to never call in SAR then.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:15
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Originally Posted by Whiskey Papa
How can a roughly rectangular piece of wreckage 20 metres by 22 metres fit into a B777 with a fuselage diameter of 6 metres?
Obvious answer to that is that it's probably an external part of the aircraft, part of the wing, fuselage or horizontal stabilizer perhaps ..

Last edited by training wheels; 12th Mar 2014 at 23:36.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:15
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Originally Posted by AGBagb
Chinese media were giving the debris as found at 642'00.0"N 10537'48.0"E. Given that Tomnod was making public high res images taken at the same time as those of the Chinese, is there a way of plugging those coordinates into the Tomnod system? I can't find one.

AGB
As I understand, Tomnod releases their imagery in blocks, roughly 10x30 miles each, and has people pore over those until they are fully explored. Unless the coordinates given by the Chinese just happen to fall within the current block, there's nothing you can do except wait.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:18
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Originally Posted by HeathrowAirport
I have the feeling, now we are getting somewhere.

I still have the distinct feeling the flight did not continue long after the event that caused loss of all comms.
To lose all that equipment at once requires a significant (read: catastrophic) event.
The Story of the O2 bottle in the MEC could be onto something.

Personally, I'm not too convinced of this being any kind of (external) Hi-Jacking. Simply not the ideal target and no claims, no emergency. Nothing.
Passenger lists will have been reviewed against all known Terror Databases. No indication so far which would point into this direction.
Suicide of a Cockpit Crew Member might not be so easy to rule out, although it seems no indication in this direction have been identified so far.
This is all obviously completely out of the blue just based a bit on Occam's Razor.


The Radar return thing on the other Hand sounds rather bizzare to me.
I took it as if they did not have continuous coverage after loss of comms, but rather an unidentified return coming out of the blue at some point in time after 1:30. They just assumed it may have been this flight.

Last edited by henra; 12th Mar 2014 at 23:30.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:25
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Still do not understand how no one found it before, if it is such large pieces and so near the original site where contact was lost? Anyone care to offer an explanation?
The large pieces could have all sunk in the days since the images were taken.
Keep in mind the satellite images appear to be taken directly overhead whereas a ship is viewing them in profile from the side. This profile might be close to zero if the object is partially submerged and rough seas.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:28
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Perhaps confusion between metres and feet.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:28
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SAR procedure

Is anyone with knowledge/experience aware if SAR would discard again any sea trash that they locate and examine, or would it all be gathered to be 'officially' dismissed?
(Bearing in mind if there are many large pieces floating around out there, they could cause successive false alarms...)
Thank you.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:30
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Not sitting on the bottom, but "swamped" like a boat

Trouble is, these were taken 3 days ago, so presumably the wreckage may have sunk by now? At least the co-ordinates will provide a marker for listening for the pingers.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:31
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GolfMikeMike - Similarly looking down on the Atlantic (North / South / Mid) from 35,000 feet I've never seen a single yacht, container ship, tanker or cruise ship - and only occasionally another aircraft
I fly over the approximate suspected crash sight regularly. I can also say I frequently see many aircraft (the airspace is busy), plenty of ships -both very large and normal size - and even the odd brave yacht.
You may not see comparatively very much because a) I enjoy looking out, but more likely b) the average sea state in the South China Sea is more benign than the North Atlantic you are used to.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:32
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Originally Posted by FE Hoppy
Having spent thousands of hours flying maritime patrol and SAR I can tell you that you can see a lot more from 1000' and below.
of course, fair point :-)
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:40
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I am near certain that the actual Chinese satellite images are at a significantly higher resolution than those that they've provided to the rest of the world. They are, more than likely, reduced resolution versions so we are not aware of the actual satellite capabilities of the Chinese. It only makes sense . . .

My guess is that they've released these images based upon a detailed and thorough review of a much higher resolution satellite image. I don't think they would waste time and face embarrassment looking as incompetent as the Malaysians . . .
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:40
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Possibility?

Here's an AD published last November. It "fits" this situation - loss of pressure + loss of SATCOM.
http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_asset...2014-05-03.pdf
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:48
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Oil Rig Worker - Verified by ABC News Reporter

Bob Woodruff ABC News Reporter has verified the validity of Mike Mckay the oil rig worker and his witness account.


https://twitter.com/BobWoodruff/stat...26108513411072
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:51
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Chinese image of seabed, not surface?

At 2203 Z today, FE Hoppy quoted Pixie:

Quote:
According to various news sources (CNN & Daily Mail) - the debris and oil slick is in the area initially searched after the crash and is floating.

If that's the case, why wasn't it noticed before?
Who did the search?

Now I'm uncertain this comment is referring to the Chinese satellite pix set (@3 wavelengths?)--may due info overload reading most of the posts. But it's in context to mean that.

Is it possible the grey Chinese pix images the seafloor at a shallow depth and not the surface as seems to be assumed generally? The background surrounding the object(s) suggests current ripples on a sandy seafloor. In addition, a windrow seems to have been plowed up in direction of flight-- assuming onward w/o deviation and north at top of pix-- just ahead of the objects.

At this time of year, the sun at local noon would have been within 15-deg of the zenith. Has the image captured a sunlight reflection off of aluminum surfaces, perhaps the tail? Due surface curvature, the reflections would be smaller than the entire surface. Is the water sufficiently clear and shallow that, with image enhancement, this could happen? Do the pix have an associated date and time (particularly time) stamp?

It is fairly well known that aerial images looking straight down can show a overview which shows with some clarity what cannot be seen at all from directly on the surface. And, of course, the non-significant debris found may have-- indeed probably was-- been not at or even very near the aerial reporting point.

Does anyone know what visual/infrared frequencies the Chinese satellite might have used, and if one might have some water penetration ability? Or is it possibly a radar reflection image... or even one such processed to determine seafloor contours by measuring the exact elevation of the sea surface due to the gravity effects of exactly how high the solid seabed is? We all know that the seafloor is now mapped by this gravity effect; I just don't know what precision can be obtained.

Obviously the pix are rendered in false color. Is it possible different types of return in one frequency can be rendered in a second color scale? Or superimposed from another pix frequency? FWIW
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:52
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Location of the objects in the Chinese satellite pictures:

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Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:53
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Question Sea depth

Can we ascertain the ocean depth at the co-ordinates given by the Chinese satellite?
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:55
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Originally Posted by training wheels
Are you suggesting that the mystery blip on the primary radar return at FL295 was a military interceptor aircraft who shot down MH 370? If so, then your post and mine will probably be deleted by the mods ...
Not quite that specific, but yes. It could be pure coincidence that a short while after the 777 disappeared, the Malaysian military tracked something in level flight with no transponder ping crossing the peninsula on a track that potentially intersected the 777's last known location.
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:57
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Water currents in the area

Using this animated map of the area you can pinpoint the reported position of the debris and see the relationship to the surface sea currents as of 7/3


earth :: an animated map of global wind and weather
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Old 12th Mar 2014, 23:57
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I am near certain that the actual Chinese satellite images are at a significantly higher resolution than those that they've provided to the rest of the world. They are, more than likely, reduced resolution versions so we are not aware of the actual satellite capabilities of the Chinese.
You may also find they might have done some extra modifications to make sure that there can be no extrapolation from the reduced resolution images. so as to not infer what the true capabilities are, if that is even possible.
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Old 13th Mar 2014, 00:01
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How can a roughly rectangular piece of wreckage 20 metres by 22 metres fit into a B777 with a fuselage diameter of 6 metres?
Maximum width you can get from a cylinder (excluding deformation) is its circumference (obtained by slicing along the long axis, then opening up flat).

Diameter is (I think) 6.19m, so circumference and hence max width of a piece of fuselage itself is 2 * pi * r = 19.45m
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