Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1
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From: Australia
The guy in the email must have good eyes, the rig is currently located in the Caribbean Sea 22.84518 / -79.38331
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 63
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From: Carmarthen
The other alternative is a satellite. I've seen naked-eye satellites flare brightly and expand in size due to outgassing while in orbit. Alternatively I've also seen satellites re-entering that flared for about that period of time - tens of seconds. The only unusual thing is it was due west while satellites tend to orbit in an inclined plane, so no lateral movement is a problem for that explanation - though not impossible.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,726
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From: The Winchester
I believe the response to a rapid decompression at cruise is to push the nose over hard into a banked descent. I can imagine pilots initiating the emergency descent maneuver at same time they dial in a heading and lower altitude,
Joined: Mar 2014
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From: Orange County
IRU on 9M-MRG
I mentioned the ADIRU in another post.. This airplane (MRG) had an issue a while ago where they had zero authority on the control surfaces while it was in AP. Not saying MRO had this problem, but it's a little weird they were at similar cruising altitudes.
On 1 August 2005 a serious incident involving Malaysia Airlines Flight 124, occurred when a Boeing 777-2H6ER (9M-MRG) flying from Perth to Kuala Lumpur also involved an ADIRU fault resulting in uncommanded manoeuvres by the aircraft acting on false indications.[14] In that incident the incorrect data impacted all planes of movement while the aircraft was climbing through 38,000 feet (11,600 m). The aircraft pitched up and climbed to around 41,000 feet (12,500 m), with the stall warning activated. The pilots recovered the aircraft with the autopilot disengaged and requested a return to Perth. During the return to Perth, both the left and right autopilots were briefly activated by the crew, but in both instances the aircraft pitched down and banked to the right. The aircraft was flown manually for the remainder of the flight and landed safely in Perth. There were no injuries and no damage to the aircraft. The ATSB found that the main probable cause of this incident was a latent software error which allowed the ADIRU to use data from a failed accelerometer.[15]
The US Federal Aviation Administration issued Emergency Airworthiness Directive (AD) 2005-18-51 requiring all 777 operators to install upgraded software to resolve the error.[16]
On 1 August 2005 a serious incident involving Malaysia Airlines Flight 124, occurred when a Boeing 777-2H6ER (9M-MRG) flying from Perth to Kuala Lumpur also involved an ADIRU fault resulting in uncommanded manoeuvres by the aircraft acting on false indications.[14] In that incident the incorrect data impacted all planes of movement while the aircraft was climbing through 38,000 feet (11,600 m). The aircraft pitched up and climbed to around 41,000 feet (12,500 m), with the stall warning activated. The pilots recovered the aircraft with the autopilot disengaged and requested a return to Perth. During the return to Perth, both the left and right autopilots were briefly activated by the crew, but in both instances the aircraft pitched down and banked to the right. The aircraft was flown manually for the remainder of the flight and landed safely in Perth. There were no injuries and no damage to the aircraft. The ATSB found that the main probable cause of this incident was a latent software error which allowed the ADIRU to use data from a failed accelerometer.[15]
The US Federal Aviation Administration issued Emergency Airworthiness Directive (AD) 2005-18-51 requiring all 777 operators to install upgraded software to resolve the error.[16]
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 130
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From: Surrey, UK
All the stories about possible turn-back, sightings over the Straits Of Malacca etc are just that... stories. They are qualified by "believed to have", "think that" etc etc.
We are still where we were last Saturday morning - no evidence of what has happened to the flight
We are still where we were last Saturday morning - no evidence of what has happened to the flight
short flights long nights
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 4,017
Likes: 327
It would crash. There is nothing in the 777 systems that would prevent it flying into the ocean. If and it's an if, the fisherman are correct, and the aircraft was flying straight and level at a low altitude, then someone was flying it, or making autopilot inputs.
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 7
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From: France
@ Tarzanboy #2045 (was post #2063)
At last something that makes sense and 'feels' right for an explanation.
It answers some of the 'whys'
..... and it wouldn't be the first "crash/aircraft loss" due to an incorrect way point input
It answers some of the 'whys'
..... and it wouldn't be the first "crash/aircraft loss" due to an incorrect way point input
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 30
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From: japan
MEC fire
Yes this could be a cause of fire and lead to an accident.
However I am sure that the crew if being faced with smoke and fumes in the front end would go through the QReF and don mask and initiate a long shallow to a lower altitude as rightly stated by a dial in of the autopilot. (at the same time initiate other drills to do something to locate and react if at all possible to the smoke/fire) By this stage there would be four eyes and two pairs of hands on this going through check list. A busy time.
All crews of all types will have practiced this in the SIM many times.
Regarding the search in the other direction.
Lets face facts, one of the radar sites reported a radar hit at about the time it could be reasonable to assume this flight could reach if in fact it made a turn. Reported it was not transmitting mode S.
If the authoritys there did not fully investigate and search these areas then I am sure every one would be up in arms that they have not made all efforts.
This is a very sad situation for the industry regardless untill we know the full outcome and untill the DFDR and CVR are located and the data accessed wwe never will do. However its good that so many front seaters are responding on here with very usefull information.
However I am sure that the crew if being faced with smoke and fumes in the front end would go through the QReF and don mask and initiate a long shallow to a lower altitude as rightly stated by a dial in of the autopilot. (at the same time initiate other drills to do something to locate and react if at all possible to the smoke/fire) By this stage there would be four eyes and two pairs of hands on this going through check list. A busy time.
All crews of all types will have practiced this in the SIM many times.
Regarding the search in the other direction.
Lets face facts, one of the radar sites reported a radar hit at about the time it could be reasonable to assume this flight could reach if in fact it made a turn. Reported it was not transmitting mode S.
If the authoritys there did not fully investigate and search these areas then I am sure every one would be up in arms that they have not made all efforts.
This is a very sad situation for the industry regardless untill we know the full outcome and untill the DFDR and CVR are located and the data accessed wwe never will do. However its good that so many front seaters are responding on here with very usefull information.
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 30
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From: Malton, North Yorkshire
@HamishMcBush
Exactly! That's the point I was making in mine #1951.
IMO, after a lot of research here on this thread and elsewhere, there has been no definitive official statement by the SAR investigators that a turn back over the peninsular happened!
Exactly! That's the point I was making in mine #1951.
IMO, after a lot of research here on this thread and elsewhere, there has been no definitive official statement by the SAR investigators that a turn back over the peninsular happened!
Joined: Jun 2002
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 7,172
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From: Nanaimo (CAC8)
Oil rig letter
Some facts:
The Songa Mercur is currently drilling in Block 05-1c in Vietnamese waters.
The reported location in the letter is within that Block - I don't have access to the exact coordinates of the well.
The distance to the last reported location is 306 nm on a true bearing of 276.5 degrees:
Note that the bearing line runs just south of the Con Son Islands and across the tip of the Ca Mau peninsula.
For an aircraft at FL350 to be visible from the rig, it would need to be closer than 230 nm. At FL200, 175 nm.
The Songa Mercur is currently drilling in Block 05-1c in Vietnamese waters.
The reported location in the letter is within that Block - I don't have access to the exact coordinates of the well.
The distance to the last reported location is 306 nm on a true bearing of 276.5 degrees:
Note that the bearing line runs just south of the Con Son Islands and across the tip of the Ca Mau peninsula.
For an aircraft at FL350 to be visible from the rig, it would need to be closer than 230 nm. At FL200, 175 nm.
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 131
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From: Australia
The guy in the email must have good eyes, the rig is currently located in the Caribbean Sea 22.84518 / -79.38331
It may have moved since then.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,803
Likes: 0
From: Perth - Western Australia
The guy in the email must have good eyes, the rig is currently located in the Caribbean Sea 22.84518 / -79.38331
Songa Offshore
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: UK
Is there any possibility the plane came down over land and never made it back across Malaysia? Dense jungle has absorbed planes before, leaving little or no trace, especially if - and I appreciate it's a big if - the plane broke up in mid air. Just a thought, albeit a very amateur one (no flames, please).
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 24
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From: Northern California, U.S.
Mobile Phone Tracking
Nobody seems to have responded in any detail to the various points about pax phones.
It is common knowledge that many cell phones are left on during flights. Given the demographics, most MH370 passengers would be using smartphones. This raises one interesting avenue of enquiry, and one non-issue.
"QQ" IP Number Logs
If MH370 crossed Peninsular Malaysia at relatively low altitude, some of those phones could have established contact with cell phone towers along the flight path, if only for short periods. Such contacts are logged by the telephone operators even if no call is made. MH knows the numbers of most phones on board because they were used for passenger registration.
More interesting is the fact that smartphone apps contact certain websites automatically when a cell connection is established. Families of some Chinese passengers are reported to have observed that QQ (similar to Gmail chat) showed the missing passengers as logged in. (Login could be entirely automatic under control of a smartphone app.) If true, this means that QQ (as well as the Malaysian cell phone carrier, and the respective governments) have a log of the IP addresses associated with passenger smartphones during the fleeting connection with the Peninsular cell phone towers.
As regards jamming, it is, of course, possible to jam phones, but considerable power would be required to jam every single phone throughout the length of the fuselage, in the cockpit, crew quarters, etc.
Non-Issue - Phones "Ringing Out" Without Going to Voicemail
Another claim in relation to phones is probably true but irrelevant - families of passengers claim that when they attempted to call the passengers' phones, they encountered a continuous ring tone (ring out) rather than being diverted to voicemail or an error message after one or two rings.
Based on my own experience, Chinese cell phone carriers sometimes handle unavailable phones in very idiosyncratic ways, particularly when a Chinese phone is used outside China. There seems to be official concern that voicemail could be used for surreptitious political communications.
It is common knowledge that many cell phones are left on during flights. Given the demographics, most MH370 passengers would be using smartphones. This raises one interesting avenue of enquiry, and one non-issue.
"QQ" IP Number Logs
If MH370 crossed Peninsular Malaysia at relatively low altitude, some of those phones could have established contact with cell phone towers along the flight path, if only for short periods. Such contacts are logged by the telephone operators even if no call is made. MH knows the numbers of most phones on board because they were used for passenger registration.
More interesting is the fact that smartphone apps contact certain websites automatically when a cell connection is established. Families of some Chinese passengers are reported to have observed that QQ (similar to Gmail chat) showed the missing passengers as logged in. (Login could be entirely automatic under control of a smartphone app.) If true, this means that QQ (as well as the Malaysian cell phone carrier, and the respective governments) have a log of the IP addresses associated with passenger smartphones during the fleeting connection with the Peninsular cell phone towers.
As regards jamming, it is, of course, possible to jam phones, but considerable power would be required to jam every single phone throughout the length of the fuselage, in the cockpit, crew quarters, etc.
Non-Issue - Phones "Ringing Out" Without Going to Voicemail
Another claim in relation to phones is probably true but irrelevant - families of passengers claim that when they attempted to call the passengers' phones, they encountered a continuous ring tone (ring out) rather than being diverted to voicemail or an error message after one or two rings.
Based on my own experience, Chinese cell phone carriers sometimes handle unavailable phones in very idiosyncratic ways, particularly when a Chinese phone is used outside China. There seems to be official concern that voicemail could be used for surreptitious political communications.
Last edited by Communicator; 15th March 2014 at 00:43. Reason: Clerical/formatting changes only
short flights long nights
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 4,017
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Some ex airline pilot is on Sky at the moment with a therory that they depressurised, turned 180 degrees and then passed out before they got the masks on. He has them crashing in the middle of the Indian Ocean. He doesn't explain why the transponder went off or the lack of radar coverage however.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 60
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From: USA
I don't understand how, in an area of fist and sabre waving and military might, including the use of various radar and spy satellites, an aircraft of any size can 'just' disappear !!
What ever happened on board, are we really expected to believe that not one world agency knows where that plane went.
Now l feel really 'safe' post 9/11
What ever happened on board, are we really expected to believe that not one world agency knows where that plane went.
Now l feel really 'safe' post 9/11