Boeing 747 Dreamlifter lands at wrong airport
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 72
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Curious to know why would Jabara have its approach and runway lights on with an aircraft on approach to a neighbouring airport.
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: apogee
Age: 69
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems to happen every once in awhile, no matter what the decade. I remember an SAS DC8 landing at Cartierville instead of Dorval in the 60s. Bit difficult to get out of but it all worked out in the end. Once asked Boeing at a B744 meeting when they were going to build a full double decker. Was told it wasn't possible. Maybe not so, pretty close.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: usa
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Genuine question - is this likely to be a career ender for these guys?
Or a `don't ever do that again' kind of discussion."
In the Brussels DC-10 incident the Capt was "asked" to retire early, the FO was fired (was a previously demoted 727 Capt), and the FE was allowed to stay.
Or a `don't ever do that again' kind of discussion."
In the Brussels DC-10 incident the Capt was "asked" to retire early, the FO was fired (was a previously demoted 727 Capt), and the FE was allowed to stay.
It is interesting that the approach plates for Jabara all display the three nearby airports susceptible to confusion......
http://flightaware.com/resources/air...DME+RWY+18/pdf
...whereas the plates for KIAB do NOT show the three airports that might be overflown on final, and could be confused for McConnell:
http://flightaware.com/resources/air...S)+RWY+19L/pdf
One wonders why they are depicted in the one case, but not in the other - and whether that will now change....
It never hurts to maintain a little rational paranoia when aviating. The Universe (through its minion, Murphy) is out to get you - if you don't maintain constant vigilance!
http://flightaware.com/resources/air...DME+RWY+18/pdf
...whereas the plates for KIAB do NOT show the three airports that might be overflown on final, and could be confused for McConnell:
http://flightaware.com/resources/air...S)+RWY+19L/pdf
One wonders why they are depicted in the one case, but not in the other - and whether that will now change....
It never hurts to maintain a little rational paranoia when aviating. The Universe (through its minion, Murphy) is out to get you - if you don't maintain constant vigilance!
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Within AM radio broadcast range of downtown Chicago
Age: 71
Posts: 849
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apples and Tangerines
Some posters have averred hypocrisy or other malefactions by referring to the perceived 'mistakes happen' paradigm prevalent in the thread, and contrasting it with the systemic weaknesses (rooted in cultural over-deference to seniority) identified relative to the Asiana crash at SFO. To those posters, only a short rejoinder is needed: whereas, in the Asiana crash, hierarchical obsequiance or over-deference appears to have been a large or major causative factor, in the incident discussed in this thread, there is no suggestion at all of any such poor cockpit management. So to raise the Asiana crash cultural factors here is like comparing apples and.....tangerines.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Currently, 737s are only flown FROM Renton; they do not land there. First flights go to BFI, and subsequent flights operate to/from BFI.
A bit rich there, Willowrun...
Dive and Drive strikes again... had they been following the (non-existent) 3° profile on the LNAV approach, alarm bells would have been going off...
Dive and Drive strikes again... had they been following the (non-existent) 3° profile on the LNAV approach, alarm bells would have been going off...
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: the edge of madness
Posts: 493
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Either way, unless the CVR shows total disregard of procedures, my guess would be that the feds will pull their tickets temporarily (and check airman letters if applicable), they will be retrained and put back on the line after sim training and a line check.
Also, noticed that the Dreamlifter doesn't have winglets -anyone know why?
In the "previous incidents" I can't find reference to the BOAC Britannia that landed at Cartierville-v-Dorval. The Brit. taxied round and took off again, and At The Subsequent Court Of Enquiry the Capt. was criticised for that act, and asked why ? Well, he said, I thought Least Said, Soonest Mended.
Amusingly, a student pilot approaching Cartierville thought " BOAC can't be wrong " so he went and landed at Dorval !
Amusingly, a student pilot approaching Cartierville thought " BOAC can't be wrong " so he went and landed at Dorval !
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK
Age: 76
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also, noticed that the Dreamlifter doesn't have winglets -anyone know why?
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Within AM radio broadcast range of downtown Chicago
Age: 71
Posts: 849
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ain't Got No Culture
In rebuttal: the point is not that this crew operated in accordance with sound, established, proven procedures (obviously the landing was highly anomolous). Rather the point was only that the contrast some (few) prior posters sought to draw is not fact-based (at least, to the extent posts on this board are factually derived in the immediate aftermath of such incidents). In Asiana, among the situational facts of which the community was quite immediately aware was the fact (or very highly likely fact) that Obsequiousness to PIC syndrome played a materially relevant role. This led to contentions, and/or discussion, and/or controversy, about the Korean civil aeronautics cockpit culture. In Dreamlifter We're Not in the Right Place in Kansas Anymore, whatever set of errors or omissions turn out to have been responsible, thus far, there is no predicate for saying that the junior crewmember was thinking 'this won't end well, but Hot Pants Herbie, I best not say anything about it to the Old Man.' To call a penalty here, on this thread to date, for Hypocrisy, would be like the zebras in Winnipeg last night whistling a Blackhawk or Jet for roughing the passer - the predicate for the call is not part of the facts.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I lived in Melbourne in 1985 a Garuda 747 landed at Essendon (YMEN) R26, 3,600ft, instead of Melbourne (YMML) R27, 7500ft, which was 5 miles away. There was a massive strip-out before it could take off again.
ATSB report:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/31237/aair198501651.pdf
ATSB report:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/31237/aair198501651.pdf
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: North Cornwall
Age: 73
Posts: 428
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
as I read it, the 747 did not land at Essendon but descended to 350' before climbing at the direction of ATC.
Hopefully a working link is:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/31237/aair198501651.pdf
Last edited by srobarts; 22nd Nov 2013 at 10:51. Reason: correction
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Wales
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of course this could be a publicity stunt by Boeing...
Most people in the cultural areas of the world have never heard of a 'Boeing Dreamlifter', but have a good knowledge of the 'Airbus Beluga'...
Most people in the cultural areas of the world have never heard of a 'Boeing Dreamlifter', but have a good knowledge of the 'Airbus Beluga'...